Pfeil

E15 Fuel

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 I just read in the paper this morning that the federal government is looking to raise E10 to E15. Even My 2012 Nissan says to NOT use anything above E10!

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Mr. Pfeil, I think that article may be old news.

The government has allowed that for several years,

to try to create more "demand" for ethanol, but

there has been great resistance.

 

I'm sure others on the forum can tell us more.

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E-fuel, with its lower boiling point, has turned into a nightmare in the hotter climes for anyone with a carburated vehicle.

Have had several of my vehicles towed, repeatedly, only to have them start up again, just fine once cooled down. 🤬

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Being a bored nerd I watch C-span often.  A recent broadcast was the congressional debate on going to E90 fuel as the only fuel to be produced in the future. Reason? The fuel would allow for higher compression engines that would allow for better fuel economy at lowest development cost to auto manufacturers.  Also rallying for it was the corn farmers who see a windfall profit for thei products. Several testimonies were presented on the negative effect of having just one fuel choice that is not compatible with most all vehicles on the road.  Also cited was the failure of E85 flex fuel to catch on with consumers even though there are vehicles currently on the road that are equipped to use the fuel.  We can only hope the anti E90 group is winning.

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Here in central NYS most of the gas stations have by now switched to e-free 91 octane.

 

Using the e-free gas, not only has it eliminated many of the small engine problems (lawnmowers, weedwhackers, chain saws), reports from those using it in their early cars are that their cars start and run better and are less prone to vapor lock in hot weather. 

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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Been buying e-free 91 and 93 here in SC. But when I lived in MD could not find it, so went to a local small airport and got 100 oct e-free. Lots of old airplanes out there, so e-free is going to be available for a long time. We don't want those old planes falling out of the sky. I understand all gas produced by refineries is e-free, then they blend in the ethanol for local market.

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Very hard to find non ethanol gas in my area.  One station in a 10 mile radius has it.  I’m surprised there are as many places listed here that have it available.  One of our cars is e85 rated but we’ve never used.  The car has enough issues just using e10.

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" I understand all gas produced by refineries is e-free, then they blend in the ethanol for local market. " true statement but what they start with is not 87 octane.

" When you mix 10 percent 113 octane ethanol with 85 octane gasoline it increases the octane two points to the normal 87 octane most consumers use. So the higher the ethanol content, the higher the octane. The octane rating for E15 (15% ethanol) is 88 octane and E85 (85% ethanol) is 108 octane." - so what they start with is 85 octane for E10 and with E15 could drop the base to 84 octane.

Bottom line: with alky it burns cooler and is higher octane so less likely to detonate but you still need more of it. Also the higher the alky content, the lower ocane (cheaper) the base gasoline needs to be

Brazil is 100% ethanol but also has a lot of sugar cane (much more efficient for producing ethanol).

None of which addresses the fact that corn is about the worst/least efficient thing to make ethanol from (but we have a lot of it).

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There is a mandate that refiners use renewable biofuels or purchase credits from those who do.  Philadelphia Energy Solutions filed for bankruptcy earlier this year claiming the mandate to use biofuels or buy credits was their second biggest liability after crude oil.  That generated lots of discussions about the continued use of corn based ethanol as fuel.  The company has come out of bankruptcy but the debate over the biofuels mandate continues.

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In my 1929 Studebaker, in hot weather the ethanol laced fuel will boil in the fuel pump. I add diesel to my gas and also installed an electric fuel pump. If the engine starts but then quickly runs out of gas or just seems to run out of gas while driving I engage the electric pump and all is good. 

 

I am not against ethanol, there are far more benefits to it in the millions of contemporary cars on the road. The responsibility to find work a-rounds falls upon our shoulders. 

Edited by keninman
clarification and misspelling (see edit history)

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The U.S. aviation industry does not permit any type of ethanol fuel mixture to be used in aircraft because it is detrimental to the function of internal combustion engines.  Enough said.

 

 

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On 9/22/2018 at 3:09 AM, GregLaR said:

E-fuel, with its lower boiling point, has turned into a nightmare in the hotter climes for anyone with a carburated vehicle.

Have had several of my vehicles towed, repeatedly, only to have them start up again, just fine once cooled down. 🤬

Put an electric fuel pump somewhere in the line, linked to a toggle switch under the day.  When the car starts to vaporlock (run out of gas), flip on the switch until the bubble is moved on through.  None of my straight 8 Buicks will operate on the road in Florida without one.  But, it solves the problem and helps a little bit with starting after long layoffs too.  Haha, I find it was or is more fun to just pump the gas pedal until it starts.

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More then twenty years ago a friend and I drove his 1930 Pierce Arrow to a yearly concours event in Forest Grove Oregon. On the way home, the ambient temperature had risen to the mid 90's. The car had performed nicely in the morning, but on the way back it began to buck and kick. I told him he needed to pull into a parking lot or he risked being stuck in traffic. When we got out of the car you could actually hear the gas boiling in the non-pressurized gas tank. I asked him where he got his gas, and was told that he got it at a station that use alcohol as it's oxygenating agent. MTBE  was still available, and topping off the tank solved the problem. That was the first time, but certainly not the last time the problem could be traced directly to alcohol laced fuel in an old car.

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17 hours ago, keninman said:

In my 1929 Studebaker, in hot weather the ethanol laced fuel will boil in the fuel pump. I add diesel to my gas and also installed an electric fuel pump. If the engine starts but then quickly runs out of gas or just seems to run out of gas while driving I engage the electric pump and all is good. 

 

I am not against ethanol, there are far more benefits to it in the millions of contemporary cars on the road. The responsibility to find work a-rounds falls upon our shoulders. 

Benefits?  What?  The stuff is worse than awful

 

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On 9/28/2018 at 11:16 AM, TerryB said:

Very hard to find non ethanol gas in my area.  One station in a 10 mile radius has it.  I’m surprised there are as many places listed here that have it available.  One of our cars is e85 rated but we’ve never used.  The car has enough issues just using e10.

Terry, there was plenty of e-free around Warsaw because of all of the boating up on the Neck.  But, that 123 miles from you. :(

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 Do you really think that our government cares what our cars can and can't use. It's what they want and you and I my friends have no recourse. So it destroys rubber you really think they care?

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