ellagee

Datsun 240Z

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I'd like to have my freshly restored 1970 240Z ( s/n 509) judged this spring at Auburn. Could anyone advise what class this car should be in. Also are the dealer installed mag wheels acceptable or are the original wheels and wheel covers required.

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3 hours ago, ellagee said:

I'd like to have my freshly restored 1970 240Z ( s/n 509) judged this spring at Auburn. 

I believe the 2019 Auburn meet is just a Grand National, unlesss I have missed something and it will be both an AGN and National Meet.

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Dealer installed mag wheels are not acceptable and will receive a deduction unless they are factory authorized options.  You will need factory documentation to avoid a deduction.

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Interesting about the Dealer Mag issue. 

When Nissan stopped making the Z car in 1996 the Corporation/Marketing decided the dealers needed a Z car presence  in the showroom. This started the Z restoration project. Nissan North America bought up restorable 1970-72 Z cars to restore and be sold to dealers in the U.S. who would in turn sell them to the public with a warranty. The cars were farmed out to a specialist, but all cars had to be approved by Marketing and Engineering before going to the dealer.

Most of the Z cars restored were sold with the type of mag wheel that dealers had used in the past when the cars were new. There were cars with steel wheels and wheel covers, but most with mags. Point is the factory blessed these restored cars mag wheels.

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FYI that front and rear spoiler were not factory either, but were sold at dealerships. they were factory approved though. 

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This is great information, but you need factory documentation of this as indicated above.  I would think documentation from Nissan North America would be acceptable as well.  A copy of the warranty issued by Nissan North America (not an individual dealer) would be a start.  Please post any documentation that you have on this for future judging issues on these cars.

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36 minutes ago, 61polara said:

This is great information, but you need factory documentation of this as indicated above.  I would think documentation from Nissan North America would be acceptable as well.  A copy of the warranty issued by Nissan North America (not an individual dealer) would be a start.  Please post any documentation that you have on this for future judging issues on these cars.

 I assume you are meaning I need factory documentation. I don't,  I was trying to be helpful. However I was part of that program,  but all you have to do is google Datsun/Nissan history Restoration or just Google Nissan Z car Wikipedia which says;

 In America the Z-car went on hiatus from 1997 to 2002, as Nissan focused more on SUVs and was also in some financial trouble. To keep Z-car interest alive, Nissan launched a restoration program in 1998 for which they purchased original 240Zs, professionally restored them, and re-sold them at dealerships for about $24,000.

 

OR,

What Happened To All The Datsun 240Zs Nissan Restored In The ...

 https://jalopnik.com/what-happened-to-all-the-datsun-240zs-nissan-restored-i-158337..

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)

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Yes, we mean factory documentation as noted by several different post above.  A restoration is to factory production specs.  If Datsun/Nissan approved modifications to the original build, it's documented somewhere.  Restoring a car to original specifications requires a high level of research if that is you goal.  Without the documentation it should be restored based on the original build documentation not a subsequent restoration.  If Datsun/Nissan simply told restoration shops to restore the cars with no specifications as to permitted modifications, then it was an incorrect restoration.  

 

I'm not singling out these cars.  It's the same as any car where it is restored to the specifications of a prior restoration not to factory built original.  So again, factory documentation is critical in this case.

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On ‎11‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 7:17 PM, 61polara said:

Yes, we mean factory documentation as noted by several different post above.  A restoration is to factory production specs.  If Datsun/Nissan approved modifications to the original build, it's documented somewhere.  Restoring a car to original specifications requires a high level of research if that is you goal.  Without the documentation it should be restored based on the original build documentation not a subsequent restoration.  If Datsun/Nissan simply told restoration shops to restore the cars with no specifications as to permitted modifications, then it was an incorrect restoration.  

 

I'm not singling out these cars.  It's the same as any car where it is restored to the specifications of a prior restoration not to factory built original.  So again, factory documentation is critical in this case.

 So your asking for in-house memos between marketing and the president and vice presidents of NNA, approvals, and directives to engineering for help and so forth??? Well you can write NNA's consumer relations and see what you get.

 

 I'll tell you a funny little story about the Z. When it first arrived at the ports from Japan ALL the Z cars were badged Fairlady. Mr. Katayama who was the president of Nissan Motor Corp in U.S.A. established 1960, to 1980 ( before it was absorbed into Nissan North America)  thought this fairlady name on the new sports car wasn't going to help sales ( wasn't macho enough ). At the direction of MR. K. all the cars were rebadged 240Z. Japan did NOT know this had happened.  This was well known that the company (Nissan U.S.A.) did this and even some history shows like the old SPEED channel, FINE LIVING channel etc.. aired this history of the Z told the story . I don't think at this late stage there is a paper trail to all of this, and I don't think any internal memos about how the museum cars were to be restored, marketed, selection of a specialty shop, the quality control aspects etc. exist either.

However it now boggles the mind of how many Z's were produced from the factory that were rebadged and technically today incorrect by judging standards. 

 

Edited by Pfeil (see edit history)

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Pfeil,

This is the forum of the Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA).  Questions concerning judging standards are answered based on AACA Judges Guidelines which can be found on the Home Page under Publications.  These are not my personal standards, but those backed by the 60,000 members of AACA and applied to all vehicles entered in AACA National Meets.  If you are not a member of AACA, I hope you will join us.

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35 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

Then why would you have a judging section of the forum to comment and to ask judging questions?

 

So people can ask questions about AACA Judging guidelines. This is where folks with little to no experience with AACA judging can get advice or answers from experienced individuals.

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4 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

So people can ask questions about AACA Judging guidelines. This is where folks with little to no experience with AACA judging can get advice or answers from experienced individuals.

I realize that Matt, and I thank you for trying to help.  I was just trying to help out ellagee and others to some possible hidden facts about early Z cars. These facts should be aware to people who judge Z cars. I will rephrase #12

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It's actually an interesting situation. They were reconditioned to manufacturers spec and sold in a showroom. The VINs and odometers were unchanged, but additional badging was added to designate the cars. Tires, notably, were updated. Such a car will reach a new 25 year mark in a year or so. I would say they SHOULD qualify for an acceptable vehicle as reconditioned by the manufacturer, of course with documentation. While I don't have that documentation, it does look like a factory job and for 40 cars, clearly not a one off. I mean... we let that Safari thing on the showfield and they only made what, three? And I don't buy into any intent to mass produce that thing!

To the OP... if it was a dealer option then the wheels would be wrong... if it was a factory accessory that the dealer ordered and installed you'll be fine, but yes, certainly hunt down some factory documentation. Judges aren't trying to take away points just to do so, but if we catch something we don't think is right and there isn't documentation then you'd likely lose some points. 

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