So whom would you sell it to?

[just me]

You decide to list an item for sale. It's on a site similar like the AACA forum where responses can be posted 

below the ad. You also provide your email address in the ad.

 

So you list the item in the morning. Someone responds a short time later requesting photos via email. Normally you post photos but more difficult on that site. You reply will send photos after lunch. The email states the potential buyer is very interested in the item.

 

Looking at the site a short while later someone else posts. They will take the item. Do you hold the item until you send promised photos or consider the item sold to the  person that committed?

 

What do you do?

 

Thanks in advance 

 

 

[keiser31]

First come, first served. I say send the photos to the first guy since he asked first. Tell the second guy that he will have to wait for the first guy's response to you. It's the moral thing to do.

Edited September 18, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Mark Shaw]

Post the photos for both to see before selling...

[one-shot]

I'm with Keiser31 and he is a man of his word.

Harold

[billorn]

Send the photo's to the first guy but be sure to tell him there is another player on the deal and he needs to make up his mind fast so he doesnt waste your time. Theres doing the right thing and then theres letting someone kill a deal because they think they have a exclusive on it and take too much time.

[Graham Man]

I agree send the pictures to both.  Set a time for the first person to decide, 24 hours is more than fair.  

[R Walling]

 I would sell it to the first person that shows up with the cash.

 The first person has only expressed a desire to buy.

 The second said he would buy.

Both have had had equal opportunity to buy.

 Explain to both, first come first served.

 If I had a dollar for everybody that said they would buy, but did not, I would be rich.

 

 I once bought a house, knowing full well that the owner was considering an offer by a second party. I stated that I would pay the asking price, nothing immoral here.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Roger Walling (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

I would sell to the first person to hand me the money. The second person in this story seems serious, the first is conversation. I would still send the pictures. He asked for pictures and you promised to send them, I don't see anything about the first person even wanting to buy the item.

[trimacar]

Kind of a sore subject with me. 

 

Years ago, I found out about a 1909 Pierce Model 24 roadster project for sale, this was pre-internet. 

 

I called the guy, we agreed on a price.  Since he was 3000 miles away,  I asked him to (at my expense) overnight me some pictures so I could confirm what he had and what I was buying.

 

Next day, received pictures, immediately called him.  Sorry, he said, someone came to my house last night and bought it.  I was sad and mad and....well, just add your adjective....

 

Did he do wrong?  Remember, pre-Internet, so no instant transfer of information nor funds (such as a Paypal deposit).  Did I do wrong?  Told him I'd take it upon verification with pictures, is that qualifier enough to push me off the buyer's ledge?

 

Darn if I know, all I know is that I wanted the car but it didn't happen.....and I'm still mad at somebody (maybe me?)

[Guest]

How would the first guy even know he's first if you don't tell him so?

[just me]

5 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

How would the first guy even know he's first if you don't tell him so?

First guy asking for photos but not committing emailed me. 

Second guy replied at site. Like I am doing to you. He wrote I'll take it.

 

[billorn]

15 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

How would the first guy even know he's first if you don't tell him so?

 

Well theres "other people honest" and "look yourself in the mirror honest." Which is this?

[capngrog]

Trimacar;

 

That's a tough one, but the first one who can get the cash into my hand is the buyer, as far as I'm concerned.  With that said, I do think that the seller should have reimbursed your cost for the overnight photos.

 

Here's a tougher situation in my opinion.   For example, I'm in Paisley, Florida and agree to sell a car to a buyer in San Jose, California, but a few hours after the verbal contract, a buyer appears on my doorstep with cash in hand.  What should I do?

 

In my opinion, I would be bound (both legally and morally) to the verbal contract.  I would tell the cash guy about the verbal contract and ask him to wait a few days to see if the verbal contract came to fruition, and that I'd contact him either way.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Cheers,

Grog

[trimacar]

Yes, it's a tough situation, I agree.  In the not so recent past, offering something for sale, I had a guy swear he was coming to buy, and so I sort of held off other potential buyers. 

 

The first guy never came through.  Always gets the seller in a bad mood...

 

But, here's the fine line, to me.

 

A buyer says, long distance, I'll take it.  OK, fine, while you're working out the details, someone else comes along with cash on the doorstep.  What a tough decision.  Cash in hand, or hope the other guy comes through?

 

I get it, just miss the dreaded (by many younger people) "old days", when if a man says he's going to do something, then by God and by golly that's what he does. So, if I commit to someone, then that's what will happen.  Old fashioned, but sheesh, if a man doesn't have his word, then he has nothing.

 

Off my soapbox now thanks...

[Rusty_OToole]

I have been dickering in old cars for a long time and I no longer take anyone's word that they are going to buy until I get the cash. If someone asks me to hold a car until he can come get it, I reply that I will hold it if he gives me a deposit, non refundable. It should be enough to cover my advertising costs and out of pocket expenses if the deal falls through. But once I have a deposit I will hold the item for a reasonable time. I usually ask how long the customer needs and give him more than he asks. For example if he says he will be there in 3 days I give him a week. If he wants a week  I give him 2 weeks. But in no case longer than a month.

 

Once that time is gone the deposit is mine and I am free to sell to someone else. I make this plain from the beginning.

 

In other words if someone says I will take it and asks me to hold it for them the answer is no, unless I get a deposit. I make it clear that I will not hold it for them if someone else shows up with cash.That is straight talk, plain honest and above board.

Edited September 18, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

1 hour ago, trimacar said:

Kind of a sore subject with me. 

 

Years ago, I found out about a 1909 Pierce Model 24 roadster project for sale, this was pre-internet. 

 

I called the guy, we agreed on a price.  Since he was 3000 miles away,  I asked him to (at my expense) overnight me some pictures so I could confirm what he had and what I was buying.

 

Next day, received pictures, immediately called him.  Sorry, he said, someone came to my house last night and bought it.  I was sad and mad and....well, just add your adjective....

 

Did he do wrong?  Remember, pre-Internet, so no instant transfer of information nor funds (such as a Paypal deposit).  Did I do wrong?  Told him I'd take it upon verification with pictures, is that qualifier enough to push me off the buyer's ledge?

 

Darn if I know, all I know is that I wanted the car but it didn't happen.....and I'm still mad at somebody (maybe me?)

 

I would think that, legally, he didn't do wrong.  Been a while, but my recollection is that  a binding contract on goods worth more than $500 ordinarily requires a contract in writing, which didn't happen here.  And the fact that you wanted to see pictures suggests that there wasn't an orally agreed-to deal yet.  There was also no deal giving you a right to purchase the car at the agreed to price if you liked the pictures, as there was no consideration on that; you didn't give up anything in exchange for him holding open the offer just to you.  So a bummer, but not breach of contract.   My sense of things, at least.  On a car, the written contract is the agreement.  Everything up to that point is just a gentleman's agreement to later make an agreement, not a legal contract.

 

Whether it was a not-so-nice thing to do is another matter, and probably depends on the details of what the two of you said.

Edited September 18, 2018 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Guest]

1 hour ago, billorn said:

 

Well theres "other people honest" and "look yourself in the mirror honest." Which is this?

I have no moral issue with this at all. This is simply a case of an item for sale. Everybody can look but the first one to show up with cash in hand should be the owner. 

You can blubber all you want about "honesty" but a month down the road the buyer, whoever it is, won't even remember the seller's name.

[Bhigdog]

Just be up front with both and say the first one to paypal the bucks or that comes to the house with cash will get the car. No deposits, no promises, no bull****,  just cash up front . Don't be surprised if neither actually buys the car. Been there done that...........Bob

[joe_padavano]

"Money talks, BS walks"

[60FlatTop]

It all depends on my perception of the buyer. Their voice on the phone or their body language standing in front of you can tell a lot, if you have been paying attention for half a century.

 

I am the last person you'd find to stereotype, but, boy! can I make generalizations. All that personally observed data.

 

On the topic of honesty, I still remember the High School class when Tom Burns, the business teacher told us about discretionary and non-discretionary sales. Selling a person things they need is a responsible duty. Selling old car stuff is a sport. I'm not much into baseball or football, but I usually have a car for sale.

[maok]

Highest offer?

[keiser31]

I agree with most of you, but in this instance, it sounds like the first guy WAS interested, but needed to see photos. If photos are sent, let the guy know that there is another guy waiting for an answer.

[C Carl]

Yeah, if you are asking, that is what I would do too.   -   Carl 

[victorialynn2]

5 hours ago, keiser31 said:

First come, first served. I say send the photos to the first guy since he asked first. Tell the second guy that he will have to wait for the first guy's response to you. It's the moral thing to do.

With a timeline for an answer. Say 24 hours?

[1937hd45]

,This isn't Hemmings Motor News 50 years ago, photos should have been posted with the ad for the "item". The OP mentioned "ITEM" not a car but the moral question is still valid. I had a similar situation years ago on a Brass Era car, ok project that could become a car. First guy wanted photos (Pre Internet deal), second caller wanted to buy for the price I listed it for. I told him he was second in line and the first guy wanted to see photos. Second guy asked for my address, he was mailing a check for the total amount asked, told me to make up my mind. Turned out the first guy just wanted to look at the photos to confirm details on a car he was restoring. Called the second guy and he was the proud new owner, I even delivered the project, and made a life long friend in the process. Car was on the Hershey show field within 6-8 years and looked fantastic.  Bob 

Edited September 19, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[intimeold]

5 hours ago, Mark Shaw said:

Post the photos for both to see before selling...

Once again: Show us the pics!

[1937hd45]

Have you tried to post photos yourself on the AACA Forum? NOT the easiest feat on the Internet, just saying. Bob 

[Mike36]

An old saying comes to mind. A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

[Frantz]

I sell cars (late model and new). Got a sorta rare one in and let a woman know who has been waiting. 5 years old 30k miles... lowest mileages available in the country and still falls under certified pre owned for manufacturer. She wants me to call her back when it's through the shop for check up. In the mean time another sales person gets a sight unseen deposit... he and his customer win. I have no problem with that. My customer wanted more info to make a decision, his did not and was ready to act.

[trimacar]

12 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

would think that, legally, he didn't do wrong. 

 

I would agree that, as you say, he didn't do anything "illegal". 

 

Remember too, though, that this was a deal that was across the country, no Paypal to send a deposit, no Internet to look at pictures, this was Friday afternoon so no time to send a deposit. 

 

In these days and times, when you can have instant communication and funds transfer with anyone in the world, then, yes, first money in hand first served.

 

Back in the days I'm talking, it was a man's word.  Back then, if I had someone tell me they'd buy a car from me (and I've bought and sold over 200 collector cars), then I held it for that person.  If they backed out, that was that, but until they backed out I upheld my "gentleman's agreement" with them.  No, someone telling you on the phone that they'll take a car is not legally binding, but again, that was a different time.

 

Today, I'd say the general consensus is the first person to make a deposit or have cash in hand is the winner.

 

In a similar fashion, if I make an offer on a car, that offer is good RIGHT NOW, and not later.  My first Full Classic was bought in this manner, there was a second buyer waiting in the wings, I was at the owner's apartment and made an offer on the car.  He asked how long the offer was good for, I told him until I  walked out the door, that he might get a better offer, and he might not...and he sold me the car.

 

Another time, I made a generous offer on a Full Classic that was in pieces.  Seller refused the offer, a few months went by, I bought another car.  Seller calls me up and says he'll take my offer now.....and I was no longer in a position to buy his car, so no deal.  He actually got mad at me, even though I'd made it clear that the offer was right here, right now.

 

I don't like making a "standing offer" because it's a no-win situation, seller can use that offer to get other offers, and now it's a bidding game.

[8E45E]

      14 hours ago, trimacar said:

"Kind of a sore subject with me. 

 

Years ago, I found out about a 1909 Pierce Model 24 roadster project for sale, this was pre-internet. 

 

I called the guy, we agreed on a price.  Since he was 3000 miles away,  I asked him to (at my expense) overnight me some pictures so I could confirm what he had and what I was buying.

 

Next day, received pictures, immediately called him.  Sorry, he said, someone came to my house last night and bought it.  I was sad and mad and....well, just add your adjective....

 

Did he do wrong?  Remember, pre-Internet, so no instant transfer of information nor funds (such as a Paypal deposit).  Did I do wrong?  Told him I'd take it upon verification with pictures, is that qualifier enough to push me off the buyer's ledge?

 

Darn if I know, all I know is that I wanted the car but it didn't happen.....and I'm still mad at somebody (maybe me?)"

 

_  13 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

"I would think that, legally, he didn't do wrong.  Been a while, but my recollection is that  a binding contract on goods worth more than $500 ordinarily requires a contract in writing, which didn't happen here.  And the fact that you wanted to see pictures suggests that there wasn't an orally agreed-to deal yet.  There was also no deal giving you a right to purchase the car at the agreed to price if you liked the pictures, as there was no consideration on that; you didn't give up anything in exchange for him holding open the offer just to you.  So a bummer, but not breach of contract.   My sense of things, at least.  On a car, the written contract is the agreement.  Everything up to that point is just a gentleman's agreement to later make an agreement, not a legal contract.

 

Whether it was a not-so-nice thing to do is another matter, and probably depends on the details of what the two of you said."

 

My response to all this is the potential buyer would NOT commit until he saw photographic evidence of what he was getting for his money.   The 'YES' wasn't firm  until after the local transaction was made.  Time was of essence, and it was not in favor of the interested buyer who was 3000 miles away.  Therefore, I see no wrongdoing here, although the seller might have offered to send a cheque to cover to reimburse the interested person who lost out on the sale who asked for photos of the car to be expedited on his dime.

 

Craig  

Edited September 19, 2018 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[R Walling]

 I was selling a car at my used car lot way back when, and while I was showing the car a second person showed up.

 The first buyer was kicking the tires and hemming and hawing for a while. so I excused myself to say hello and not ignore the second guy.

 The second guy said immediately, " I’ll buy the car right now at the asking price".

 I went over to the first guy and told him that the other guy wants to buy it, but I will give you first chance if you want it now.

 The first guy said no. I sold to the second guy on the spot. 

[39BuickEight]

You have to tell any potential buyer that their interest is appreciated, and work with them as you feel you need to in terms of photos/questions/etc, but at the same time, when the money is there, it will be sold.

Edited September 19, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[JACK M]

4 hours ago, Roger Walling said:

 I was selling a car at my used car lot way back when, and while I was showing the car a second person showed up.

 The first buyer was kicking the tires and hemming and hawing for a while. so I excused myself to say hello and not ignore the second guy.

 The second guy said immediately, " I’ll buy the car right now at the asking price".

 I went over to the first guy and told him that the other guy wants to buy it, but I will give you first chance if you want it now.

 The first guy said no. I sold to the second guy on the spot. 

 

I had a similar thing happen at the boat lot.

These two guys had their own little bidding war.

 

A few years ago I had amassed a collection of scrap brass. I'm talking a few thousand dollars worth.

I got interested in  a project about three hundred miles away. Saw the pics offer a pay pal deposit because I needed a day to sell the brass.

No problem, you don't need to go to the trouble of a deposit, the car is yours if you can get here within the three days we talked about.

So I sold the brass, hooked up the trailer early in the morning (this was the morning of the second day) called the guy to find out that he sold it.

I too would like to think that a mans word is worth something, I know mine is.

 

I had some semi tires that I took off of my motor home. Priced reasonable but one guy talked me down a bit and could be here in an hour.

No sooner hung up the phone when a guy called and offered me full price. I told him they were sold but leave me your number.

The first guy showed up and handed me a wad of money and quickly started loading up the tires.

I counted the money and he was a hundred short of our agreed price.

Without a flinch he blamed his wife and walked to the passenger door to get the other hundred.

I pulled the tires out of his pick up and booted him off of my place.

The second caller was there in a flash.

 

It is very difficult to soar with the eagles when the world is full of turkeys.

 

[trimacar]

2 hours ago, JACK M said:

counted the money and he was a hundred short of our agreed price.

 

Ha!  When I buy something now, I ask the seller to count the money in front of me.  Often, they say "I trust you" and I say no, I WANT you to count it, right in front of me, and be assured we're square.

 

Why do I do this?

 

Because one time I bought a project car, $10,000.  Spent the weekend at the guy's house gathering up the parts for the project, even stayed overnight at his place.  As we were finishing the deal, I gave him a large envelope with the $10K.  I'd counted it three times.

 

The man's wife grabs the envelope, and says "my daughter and I will go in the next room and count it".

 

A few minutes later, she walks back in and says "You're $100 short".  Not having witnessed her counting, and with the money gone out of my sight, I had no argument.  I paid her the other $100.  I believe to this day that she scammed me out of it.

 

So, please count the money in front of me.  You won't hurt my feelings, and we both walk away with a smile!

[Lebowski]

On 9/18/2018 at 5:29 PM, billorn said:

 

Well theres "other people honest" and "look yourself in the mirror honest." Which is this?

 

There's nothing dishonest about selling it to the second guy. Morality has nothing to do with it either. The first person who says they want it at the selling price and who puts down a cash deposit gets it....

[trimacar]

23 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

 

There's nothing dishonest about selling it to the second guy. Morality has nothing to do with it either. The first person who says they want it at the selling price and who puts down a cash deposit gets it....

 

As in all of history, the problem is that we tend to judge past history with current morality.  It's not a correct assumption.  Standards have changed over the years, and the "instant gratification" has become the norm rather than the exception.

 

Morality changes.  What was accepted practice 30, 40, 50 or more years ago, cannot be judged by current moral or ethical standards.

 

I will tell you, when I got into the old car hobby in 1964, that if a man said he'd sell you a car, then that was it, done deal and end of discussion.  In 1965, I bought a car with a phone call, and there was NO QUESTION that the deal was done and would be honored.  Different times and different procedures.  Again, as I've stated, with instant pictures and instant payment, everyone has become dependent on "first cash in hand, everyone else loses", and a man's word that "I'll take it" is worthless.  That's not how it used to be, and we're the lesser for it. 

 

Things change.  Over the years, a "gentleman's agreement" has become rare and hard to enforce.  The discussion of legality is sad, as it whittles away at our trust in our fellow hobbyists.   I fully understand that money talks and so forth, but I will also tell you that 40 and 50 years ago, an agreement would be honored by a fair man, regardless of subsequent offers and up to the point where one or both of the parties involved said no.

Edited September 19, 2018 by trimacar (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

Integrity isn,t dead yet. The last piece of acreage i bought was sealed with a hand shake and honered by the seller even though he was later offered a higher price. I took the last car i sold off the market and held it for 4 days for the buyer on the strength of a hand shake. Both were relativley high $ deals......bob

[Doug Novak]

On 9/18/2018 at 2:36 PM, just me said:

You decide to list an item for sale. It's on a site similar like the AACA forum where responses can be posted 

below the ad. You also provide your email address in the ad.

 

So you list the item in the morning. Someone responds a short time later requesting photos via email. Normally you post photos but more difficult on that site. You reply will send photos after lunch. The email states the potential buyer is very interested in the item.

 

Looking at the site a short while later someone else posts. They will take the item. Do you hold the item until you send promised photos or consider the item sold to the  person that committed?

 

What do you do?

 

Thanks in advance 

 

 

 

I had a similar situation where two people wanted to buy for the price I had asked for. I told both what was happening and that my position was this. Who ever puts the money in my hand,  it's sold as far as I'm concerned. Only fair thing to do IMO.

[AJFord54]

On 9/18/2018 at 2:36 PM, just me said:

You decide to list an item for sale. It's on a site similar like the AACA forum where responses can be posted 

below the ad. You also provide your email address in the ad.

 

So you list the item in the morning. Someone responds a short time later requesting photos via email. Normally you post photos but more difficult on that site. You reply will send photos after lunch. The email states the potential buyer is very interested in the item.

 

Looking at the site a short while later someone else posts. They will take the item. Do you hold the item until you send promised photos or consider the item sold to the  person that committed?

 

What do you do?

 

Thanks in advance 

 

 

So please tell us what you ended up doing.