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So Tesla is tanking... your thoughts?

mercer09

By mercer09
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TerryB 25,000+ Points

TerryB

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Unfortunate for the company for this to have to happen. It is still charges and not proven out in court.  Elon did not do himself any favors by the  methods he used when the news of privatization was made public. Be realistic, It remains to be seen if any laws were broken. Good time to buy stock at the lower price?

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billorn 2,500+ Points

billorn

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I thought it was interesting that only Musk and not Tesla was being sued. Hes in charge but he isnt the owner anymore so theres always a possibility that someone will buy enough stock to take over. Its interesting to watch him self destruct whether he intended to or not. Im really surprised that leaking news that he was going to go private at $420 didnt cause prices to go up since thats more than the current stock price. Maybe I dont understand it.

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CarNucopia 5,000+ Points

CarNucopia

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2 minutes ago, billorn said:

I thought it was interesting that only Musk and not Tesla was being sued. Hes in charge but he isnt the owner anymore so theres always a possibility that someone will buy enough stock to take over. Its interesting to watch him self destruct whether he intended to or not. Im really surprised that leaking news that he was going to go private at $420 didnt cause prices to go up since thats more than the current stock price. Maybe I dont understand it.

 

The price did go up. Once people realized it was not credible information, it came back down. People who bought based on the tweet lost money.

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mercer09 25,000+ Points

mercer09

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More trouble at Tesla: The Securities and Exchange Commission filed a lawsuit against Tesla CEO Elon Musk on Thursday accusing him of making "false and misleading" statements to investors.

The commission is asking a federal judge to prevent Musk from serving as an officer or a director of a public company, among other penalties.

The complaint hinges on a tweet Musk sent on August 7 about taking Tesla private. "Am considering taking Tesla private at $420," Musk wrote. "Funding secured." The SEC said he had not actually secured the funding.

The lawsuit could prove costly for Tesla (TSLA). Shares in the company dropped 11% in premarket trading.

 

 

 

What is this? amateur hour.......................?

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8E45E 25,000+ Points

8E45E

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1 minute ago, TerryB said:

Open mouth, insert foot.  Tesla is on track to deliver 50,000 cars in the quarter that ends Sept 30th.  No other EV even comes close to those numbers.  

No question, the sales are there for Tesla.   Right now, Tesla's management's biggest issue should be on complacency.  Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, and other manufacturers have woken up and now seriously proceeded full speed ahead in the R&D of 100% EV vehicles.   So far, Jaguar I-Pace is showing very favorable comparisons with Tesla, and has exceeded it in a couple of categories.   Tesla MUST keep well ahead of the competition to remain successful.

 

Craig

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mercer09 25,000+ Points

mercer09

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well, if you own tesla stock- you should be concerned...........

 

Vertical Group analyst Gordon Johnson said the SEC has a success rate of 94.7% on market manipulation cases. This suggests Tesla (NASDAQ: TSLA)/Elon Musk is betting they'll be in the 5.3%. The analyst reiterated a Sell rating.

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CarNucopia 5,000+ Points

CarNucopia

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22 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

Would those other companies have pursued this marketplace had not Tesla existed?  Successful regards money and long term success only if you work or invest with Tesla.  It means very different things to the rest of the world.

 

They would have pursued EVs if Tesla never existed because regulations require they do.

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ply33 25,000+ Points

ply33

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2 hours ago, Buick64C said:

 

They would have pursued EVs if Tesla never existed because regulations require they do.

 

Even, apparently, if there weren't US regulations: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-china-electric-cars-20180928-story.html#

 

For Chamberlain, China’s electric-car mandates and subsidies are beneficial changes. Since 2016, the American scientist has run Volta Energy Technologies, a battery start-up in Naperville, Ill. He said the revolution wrought by Wan means it no longer matters if the U.S. rolls back emissions or fuel-efficiency standards, as President Trump talks about.


“Whether it’s Ford or General Motors or VW, or Hyundai or Toyota, if they want to participate in the Chinese market they must have electric vehicles,” Chamberlain said. “I’m happy for Wan Gang because that was his vision from many years ago.”

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mercer09 25,000+ Points

mercer09

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For Chamberlain, China’s electric-car mandatesnd subsidies are beneficial changes. Since 2016, the American scientist has run Volta Energy Technologies, a battery start-up in Naperville, Ill. He said the revolution wrought by Wan means it no longer matters if the U.S. rolls back emissions or fuel-efficncy standards, as President Trump talks about.

A gallon of gas is about 12.00 in china-so it is cheaper for them to continue to pollute and burn coal to create electricity.......

and then we get to breath their air in about a week, after we pay for emissions features on our cars, to make the world a better place to live!

Edited by mercer09 (see edit history)
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mike6024 10,000+ Points

mike6024

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Tesla CEO Elon Musk and the electric car company have agreed to pay a total of $40 million and make a series of concessions to settle a government lawsuit alleging Musk duped investors with misleading statements about a proposed buyout of the company.
 
Good news. For him to have been removed as CEO would have been a huge shame. None of us took his tweet seriously. He was just being combative with critics who were constantly on him about not making production goals, when are you going to show a profit, etc, etc... I do realize there may still be a class-action lawsuit from those who bought the stock right around the time of that tweet. Those who understood shorted it when it made that move upward. Many people still expect to be able to short it all the way to near zero.
Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)
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billorn 2,500+ Points

billorn

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Musk just resined. That might be good so someone who know's what their doing can come in and make the company work right. Hes an idea guy and he got it going but maybe now its time for someone else to take it to the next level. Since its a public company hes not really the owner so it can continue without him. It would be a shame if it disappeared because he was too immature to run a car company.

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Bhigdog 25,000+ Points

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25 minutes ago, billorn said:

Musk just resined

 

Resigned as chairman. Remains as Chief Executive Officer. Oh yeah, and coughs up a $20,000,000 fine. How much does his tweet work out as $ per word?

If that's correct, rather than fake news, Mr. Musk goes from the big expansive idea man to the guy that has to actually make it work. Not good.

Don't know how his empire is structured but I don't see him able to answer to anyone else. I see the other parts being spun off, Mr. Musk taking control of them, and Tesla itself merging with or being swallowed whole by a bigger fish. May or may not auger well for the stake holders but I see a bumpy ride........Bob

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charlier 5,000+ Points

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3 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

Resigned as chairman. Remains as Chief Executive Officer. Oh yeah, and coughs up a $20,000,000 fine. How much does his tweet work out as $ per word?.........Bob 

 

Musk is required to step aside as Chairman for 3 years so technically he could regain that role if elected to that position once he is eligible again. Tesla (the company itself) will pay a $20 million penalty as well. So technically Bob, you need to use $40 million to calculate the fine per tweet word.No matter how you look at it the fine ($40M)  is chump change to Musk and Tesla. He remains the CEO of Tesla the position he has held while also Chairman.

 

In settling, Mr. Musk neither admitted nor denied misleading investors under the civil fraud charge. This also means he cannot later say he did nothing wrong. The company was not charged with any fraud. The company will add two independent directors and take steps to monitor Mr. Musk's communications with investors. The company will also create a permanent committee of independent directors to monitor disclosures and potential conflicts of interest.

 

Glad to see this matter has been settled. Also glad to see that additional, independent, oversight will be put in place so that Tesla will not go down this same road again in the future. 

 

Now the class action lawsuit brought by Tesla shareholders and the Justice Department investigation regarding this same tweet are left to resolve. Hopefully cool heads prevail in those matters as well so Tesla can get back to making cars.

 

Charlie

Edited by charlier (see edit history)
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Bhigdog 25,000+ Points

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1 hour ago, charlier said:

Musk is required to step aside as CEO

 Bloomberg et.al. are all saying he relinquished the CHAIRMAN position and ASSUMED the CEO position. However the internal politics work out he now has a person, besides the board, whom he answers to. In theory he always answered to the board but as chairman he had sway over the agenda. Now someone else will be calling the tune. It will be interesting to see if Mr. Musk dances to it.

Obviously I know precious little of the inner workings of Tesla but I'm going to stick with my previous call.

The WSJ should have more to say on Monday.

Not having much skin in the game I really wasn't following it. Now I'm curious to watch it play out. It should go well with my breakfast coffee time read........Bob

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charlier 5,000+ Points

charlier

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54 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

 Bloomberg et.al. are all saying he relinquished the CHAIRMAN position and ASSUMED the CEO position. However the internal politics work out he now has a person, besides the board, whom he answers to. In theory he always answered to the board but as chairman he had sway over the agenda. Now someone else will be calling the tune. It will be interesting to see if Mr. Musk dances to it.

Obviously I know precious little of the inner workings of Tesla but I'm going to stick with my previous call.

The WSJ should have more to say on Monday.

Not having much skin in the game I really wasn't following it. Now I'm curious to watch it play out. It should go well with my breakfast coffee time read........Bob

 

Bob, Thanks for catching my typo in my previous post which I have corrected.

 

You are absolutely correct he was required to step down as Chairman of Tesla but still remains on the board and was allowed to remain the CEO of Tesla.

According to numerous reports and his Bio, Musk has held both the position of Chairman and CEO of Tesla (at the same time) for a while.

 

Elon Musk to Step Down as Tesla Chairman, Remain CEO

 

You are correct that in theory Musk should have had to answer to Tesla's Board. Until the last year or so the Tesla board had only ONE independent Director on the Board. At that time the other FIVE Directors had personal or professional ties to Musk including his brother Kimbal who is a Tesla Director. The current Tesla board has 8 members, THREE of which are independent. As a part of this settlement with the SEC Tesla has to add 2 more independent board members which will bring the total to 10.

 

It should be very interesting to see who becomes Chairman of Tesla. Time will tell how that plays out.

 

 

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mike6024 10,000+ Points

mike6024

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TSLA has a Market Cap of $45B, GM is $47.5B, and Ford is $37B.

 

This is rather crazy. The p/e (stock price to earnings ratio) for GM is 8, and for Ford is 6. For Tesla there is none as it's not generating a profit.

 

Someone on the investing board was saying he was shorting Tesla since it was $200-something, because for a stock to be over $200 when the company is far from showing a profit sounds over-priced. He got real mad when that tweet went out and the shares went up to something like $380. It's painful when you have a bet on the table that something is going down, and instead it goes up like that. Personally I do not short, have not in the past nor any plans to, nor do I trade options. But that fellow shorting is feeling better now. He'd also have a claim; htere could be a class-action on behalf of those that were shorting it and got harmed.

 

Tesla is estimated to lose $ 5.50 per share this year, but start to actually show a modest profit for the 4th quarter. Find that hard to believe, but we'll see.

 

 

Edited by mike6024
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mercer09 25,000+ Points

mercer09

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This is rather crazy. The p/e (stock price to earnings ratio) for GM is 8, and for Ford is 6. For Tesla there is none as it's not generating a profit.

 

netflix has done similarly for years, and yet has been the number one performing stock in the last 20 years.  go figure. PE was over 200 at one point.

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60FlatTop 25,000+ Points

60FlatTop

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16 hours ago, TerryB said:

Read the biography of Henry Ford.  A lot of parallels to his early business frustrations with the investment bankers.

 

Highly recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Today-Tomorrow-Special-Fords-Classic/dp/0915299364

 

I read this book for the first time in the 1980's when Eastman Kodak was floundering with the idea the stock holders were the companies customers. I brought some of Ford's concepts out during informational meetings and the presenter who acknowledged my comments were never seen again. In recent years that company has been imploding buildings to expedite demolition. They never get it.

 

Having the news with coffee is an excellent idea; and leave it there. Reporting is done on a "sensation du jour" method by most of the media I see. They just want ratings or to sell their sponsor's laundry soap (isn't that how they got their start?).

 

We live in a country where everyone sits on the edge of their seat waiting to hear someone's conclusion. Learn some history, make your own observations, and come to your personal conclusion based on your own bias.

 

Oh, and read this one if you have time: https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-American-Prophecy-Rendezvous/dp/0767900464

Bernie

Edited by 60FlatTop (see edit history)
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TerryB 25,000+ Points

TerryB

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2 hours ago, mercer09 said:

had no idea they were so heavy-

 

obvious due to battery weight. wouldnt want to get hit by one.

They are real cars, not little econoboxes like many early EVs or the current Leaf and Bolt.  Believe me,  if it’s any bigger than a June bug you don’t want it hitting you on the highway.  Been there, done that?, have the scars to prove it.

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billorn 2,500+ Points

billorn

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Everything is heavy these days. Teslas weight doesnt seem out of wack.

 

Dodge Challenger: 4448 lb's

Ford Mustang: 3825 lb's

Chrysler 300: 4380 lb's

Lamborghini Aventador: 4196 lb's

Buick Lacross: 3940 lb's

Chevrolet Camero: 4113 lb's

 

For something thats the same size and luxury class as Tesla.

 

Mercedes S550 is 4819 lb's

BMW 7 series 4740 lb's

Bentley Continental 5501 lb's

 

 

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60FlatTop 25,000+ Points

60FlatTop

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The weight on the spec for my '03 BMW 760li is 4873 and it has a lot of aluminum parts. I shopped for a modern car to give me the ride and performance a 1960's Electra would have if the design and concept had been carried forward without compromise into this century. I tried out a lot of '16 and '17 premium and luxury cars before I found this one. Age was not as big a concern as condition and quality. The year and a half search was over less than one week after the test drive.

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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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Many modern cars are real porkers. Even my little Accent is 2300 lbs. 

My Lotus Europa was a treat to drive, and weighed about 1500 lbs. You don't need 3 or 4 hundred HP. if you aren't hauling an extra ton or more of vehicle bloat along with you. Very thrifty on fuel as well. Just don't get T boned by a device distracted ditz in a SUV.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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1912Staver 25,000+ Points

1912Staver

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My Formula Ford is about 950 lbs.  On the downside it does not haul many bags of groceries home . You can get a Super Seven down close to that weight, and still squeeze in a couple of bags from the supermarket. Likewise a Bug Eye.

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mercer09 25,000+ Points

mercer09

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I guess my shock is-cars in the US are mandated for mileage, so while I know they are adding aluminum to ford f 150s. I had no idea so many cars are seemingly getting heavier.

 

I had suspected most cars to be in the 2500-3200 range. That is an eye opener for me.

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8E45E 25,000+ Points

8E45E

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2 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

I guess my shock is-cars in the US are mandated for mileage, so while I know they are adding aluminum to ford f 150s. I had no idea so many cars are seemingly getting heavier.

 

I had suspected most cars to be in the 2500-3200 range. That is an eye opener for me.

It is a well-known fact the newer generation Dodge Challenger is a good 30% heavier than the original 1970-74 E-body cars upon which the styling is based.

 

Craig

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Rusty_OToole 25,000+ Points

Rusty_OToole

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Cars are not only getting heavier they are getting smaller inside. I have a 1966 Dodge Coronet 3.7 liter six that weighs about 3400 pounds and has plenty of room inside. The modern equivalent outweighs it by 1000 pounds, has a 3.5 liter six, and has less room inside. Even though Americans are supposedly getting bigger every year.

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