mercer09

SO TESLA IS TANKING....YOUR THOUGHTS

Recommended Posts

Looks like 14 executives have left Tesla so far in 2018. Seems to be a fairly high number to me. One has to wonder what their reasons were for leaving???

 

Another Tesla executive has reportedly left the company

 

11 hours ago, John348 said:

Also you might want to check that info I believe stock manipulation is an SEC investigation, (at least the were)  which is not Congressional 

 

 

True, the SEC has opened an investigation into Tesla. Also true that  congress has not opened any reported investigations as of now.

 

However, the US Justice Department has indeed opened their own criminal fraud investigation into Tesla.

Then there are the shareholder lawsuits facing Tesla due to Elon's tweets and the impact on the stock's price.

 

A DOJ Probe into Elon's Tweets Could Spell Yet More Trouble for Tesla.

 

Also read the other day that Tesla is said to have over 11 BILLION dollars in debt, some debt payments coming due in the near future and NEGATIVE cash flow still continues along with decreasing cash available to fund on-going operations. If that is indeed true, Tesla's financials are not all that stable to say the least.

 

Charlie

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a car guy, have been all my life. A good car is a good car, no mater where the hell it comes from. Arguing about where the car is made, or by whom, is just plain stupid.There are always people ready to politicize anything, but it simply does a disservice to what we should be discussing, the car itself. The historians will have plenty of time to parce out details. It's obvious that this car stirs car people to a level of passion that few cars today can approach. The fact that this car is special is obvious by the fact that in a very short time this thread has garnered ten pages of responses. There are few fence sitters, when it comes to this car, someone either likes it or they don't. I'm sure that there are people here that still don't like the Datsun 240Z, without ever having owned, or driven one, but it doesn't diminish what it was or is.

Edited by Buffalowed Bill (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At this point we are up to ten pages of discussion on this topic.  From these pages I’ve gained some very crucial insite into the beliefs of many people I have never had the pleasure to meet in person.  From them I’ve made the following conclusions based on our discussions:

Matthew Hinson is to be thanked for allowing the thread and discussion to continue as he had considering removing it.

 

The discussion rarely focused on the product itself, the Tesla brand of automobiles.  No one complained the cars were junk, did not provide the level of quality expected and so forth.  If anything, those who did comment seemed impressed with them.  As a car site it seems the merits of Tesla would have been more based on automotive performance and quality than anything else.  

 

The heart of the discussion revolves around a profound dislike for Elon Musk and his business model.  Those who dislike him hope to live to see the company fail regardless of its impact on the US auto market innovation status and effect on US employment.  Recently we were told it would be better if this type of automobile would be better produced by a foreign company whom we can trust to be run the way we think it should be run.  We can ignore the fact that a large German company lied about emissions performance, after all they are more honest than the US competitor, correct?

 

What is pushed to the background is the simple fact that the success of this US based company  has forced global automakers to become players in a market that was once considered to be a novelty item with no chance of ever becoming a mainstream product.  The success of the Tesla electric auto has moved others to the market and will offer more choices to the buying public, a good outcome indeed.  If this carries over to other products like cleaner and quieter semi trucks that’s even better.

 

I hope for the sake of Tesla’s employees and suppliers they can work out their issues and continue to innovate in the industry.  A lot of safety items from the almost self driving cars promoted by Tesla have been carried over to cars we buy today, especially by Japanese brands who are quicker to adapt than our domestic brands.

 

So yes, thank you for your thoughts.  I know I am a cheerleader sometimes for the brand and it’s technology.  That is what I enjoy as a “car guy”.  Don’t loose sight of how Henry Ford was not always the perfect man with less than ideal ways to run a company.  History does repeat itself.

Edited by TerryB (see edit history)
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankly I don't care one way or another. However the historical record says the smart way to bet is that Tesla will not last long in its current form. Give the Jag movement, acquisition by Tata would make sense. The volume is large enough to ensue continuation in some form (unlike DeLorean or Fisker) but most likely as a subsidiary.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TerryB said:

The heart of the discussion revolves around a profound dislike for Elon Musk and his business model.  Those who dislike him hope to live to see the company fail regardless of its impact on the US auto market innovation status and effect on US employment.  Recently we were told it would be better if this type of automobile would be better produced by a foreign company whom we can trust to be run the way we think it should be run.  We can ignore the fact that a large German company lied about emissions performance, after all they are more honest than the US competitor, correct?

 

What is pushed to the background is the simple fact that the success of this US based company  has forced global automakers to become players in a market that was once considered to be a novelty item with no chance of ever becoming a mainstream product.  The success of the Tesla electric auto has moved others to the market and will offer more choices to the buying public, a good outcome indeed.  If this carries over to other products like cleaner and quieter semi trucks that’s even better.

 

I hope for the sake of Tesla’s employees and suppliers they can work out their issues and continue to innovate in the industry.  A lot of safety items from the almost self driving cars promoted by Tesla have been carried over to cars we buy today, especially by Japanese brands who are quicker to adapt than our domestic brands.

 

So yes, thank you for your thoughts.  I know I am a cheerleader sometimes for the brand and it’s technology.  That is what I enjoy as a “car guy”.  Don’t loose sight of how Henry Ford was not always the perfect man with less than ideal ways to run a company.  History does repeat itself.

 

Why the need to characterize someone else's perspective? Particularly, since you have it wrong.

 

I'm not sure how VW is relevant to this discussion, but since they have paid 10s of billions in fines and people have gone to jail, they certainly were not ignored. And for those cheering Tesla, if they are found to have broken the law, shouldn't they face consequences too? Or do you look past that in the interest of advancing technology and nationalism?

Edited by Buick64C (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Buick64C said:

 

Why the need to characterize someone else's perspective? Particularly, since you have it wrong.

 

I'm not sure how VW is relevant to this discussion, but since they have paid 10s of billions in fines and people have gone to jail, they certainly were not ignored. And for those cheering Tesla, if they are found to have broken the law, shouldn't they face consequences too? Or do you look past that in the interest of advancing technology and nationalism?

No, breaking the law is wrong and has its consequences.  The reference to VW, who is also advertising an electric car is to highlight the misconception that EV from another source would be better since those companies are more established, inferring they would never do anything improper.  You are certainly welcome to your impressions of the world as I am of mine.  What I will restate is the arguments presented so far are not related to the product merits but rather individual opinions of the head of the company.  Is there something wrong with wanting a US technology company to succeed?  I am not blind to arguments about management style and I freely admit I place less emphasis on management dislikes than you do.  I lost my engineering job in a well known US company when it was sold to an investment group from India.  As a result of that loss I support US technology upstarts that are trying to innovate here. Let’s hope the management of Tesla gets its act together and continues to be a source of automotive innovation.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Terry,

you  say Tesla promotes self driving cars........... they actually only took the technology from Mobileye and other companies. Yes they have incorporated the technology, but are also enduring the lawsuits for people who have been killed in their cars because of it.

 

Why this topic would ever be discontinued is beyond me. Soon nobody will be able to say a word in America. The PC of this country is totally out of control.

 

If you do see me at Hershey, not sure I am going, but if I do, please dont call the police on me for letting out a big fart.

 

I sometimes do that........................!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like Elon Musk.  He has shaken up both the auto and space industries with his (or his companies') innovative ideas.  In my opinion, both industries needed a bit of stirring up.

 

I hope Tesla (the corporation) succeeds for many reasons, but primarily because it is an American company and a leading innovator in the international automobile industry.

 

I hate the Tesla automobile and hate to admit (but never in writing) that it, by most accounts, is an excellent automobile.  "Makes no sense", you say.  Well yes, but on a visceral level, and as an old school, old car guy I can't stand the concept of our roadways being clogged with hordes of glorified golf carts silently and effortlessly going about their business.  I love the roar, clatter, bang and snort of the infernal combustion engine.  That video posted in this thread of Don Garlits' quest to hit 200 mph in his electric dragster makes me want to short circuit my lunch.  That thing (Don's electromatic demure dragster) is just ... well, it's just ... a non event.  What next, a human pod launched down the quarter mile by an electromagnetic catapult (as on our latest aircraft carrier)?   Soon, gone will be the violence, thoracic shock and sensory overload of a "fuelie" dragster hole shot  launching it to its quarter mile destiny 3 seconds later.  Line the electromatics up for their quarter mile duel, and they will launch like  hummingbirds to the traps a quarter mile away.  Will anyone notice?  Will anyone care?

 

Just sayin'.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

P.S.  I hate electric cars.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, mercer09 said:

Terry,

you  say Tesla promotes self driving cars........... they actually only took the technology from Mobileye and other companies. Yes they have incorporated the technology, but are also enduring the lawsuits for people who have been killed in their cars because of it.

 

Why this topic would ever be discontinued is beyond me. Soon nobody will be able to say a word in America. The PC of this country is totally out of control.

 

If you do see me at Hershey, not sure I am going, but if I do, please dont call the police on me for letting out a big fart.

 

I sometimes do that........................!

After the collision in bright sunlight you are referencing, Tesla decided to do more /most of the technology in house to avoid the missed combination of events that led up to that crash.  They are not depending on others to do it all for them.  The self driving car non Tesla crash that claimed the life in AZ? I believe shows the technology is not there 100%.  

 

I will not be at Hershey, sure wish I was as I’m only 20 miles away from it.  Six years ago a non attentive driver decided to turn into my lane of travel while I was having a wonderful morning ride on my motorcycle.  I was the victim of that old l didn’t see the motorcycle syndrome by drivers in too much of a hurry to get somewhere.  With a spinal cord injury that has me paralyzed over 50% of my body and loss of my entire right leg from the accident I applaud the advent of technology that would have sensed my presence and alerted the driver to me.  It’s not perfect yet as you mention and people are too quick to think they do not have to pay attention when it’s activated and accidents still happpen.  I like to believe there will be a time when the technology, even before self driving is fully implemented will protect others from the type of accident I was in.

 

Please fart to your hearts content.  Shoot it towards the East on Rt.322 if you would like me to be it’s target😀.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TerryB said:

No, breaking the law is wrong and has its consequences.  The reference to VW, who is also advertising an electric car is to highlight the misconception that EV from another source would be better since those companies are more established, inferring they would never do anything improper.  You are certainly welcome to your impressions of the world as I am of mine.  What I will restate is the arguments presented so far are not related to the product merits but rather individual opinions of the head of the company.  Is there something wrong with wanting a US technology company to succeed?  I am not blind to arguments about management style and I freely admit I place less emphasis on management dislikes than you do.  I lost my engineering job in a well known US company when it was sold to an investment group from India.  As a result of that loss I support US technology upstarts that are trying to innovate here. Let’s hope the management of Tesla gets its act together and continues to be a source of automotive innovation.

 

Nothing wrong with wanting a US tech company to succeed. It's a matter of should a company and person be rewarded for being unethical? My issue isn't that I don't just Elon. The man has accomplished some incredible things. But, I think it's wrong and sets a bad precedent to reward someone who is habitually dishonest. It's not about him, its about his behaviour. 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, capngrog said:

I like Elon Musk.  He has shaken up both the auto and space industries with his (or his companies') innovative ideas.  In my opinion, both industries needed a bit of stirring up.

 

I hope Tesla (the corporation) succeeds for many reasons, but primarily because it is an American company and a leading innovator in the international automobile industry.

 

I hate the Tesla automobile and hate to admit (but never in writing) that it, by most accounts, is an excellent automobile.  "Makes no sense", you say.  Well yes, but on a visceral level, and as an old school, old car guy I can't stand the concept of our roadways being clogged with hordes of glorified golf carts silently and effortlessly going about their business.  I love the roar, clatter, bang and snort of the infernal combustion engine.  That video posted in this thread of Don Garlits' quest to hit 200 mph in his electric dragster makes me want to short circuit my lunch.  That thing (Don's electromatic demure dragster) is just ... well, it's just ... a non event.  What next, a human pod launched down the quarter mile by an electromagnetic catapult (as on our latest aircraft carrier)?   Soon, gone will be the violence, thoracic shock and sensory overload of a "fuelie" dragster hole shot  launching it to its quarter mile destiny 3 seconds later.  Line the electromatics up for their quarter mile duel, and they will launch like  hummingbirds to the traps a quarter mile away.  Will anyone notice?  Will anyone care?

 

Just sayin'.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

P.S.  I hate electric cars.

 

For my own driving, I want the same thing you want. But for the 95% of people on the road who don't care about the experience, make them as safe and environmentally friendly as possible. Though I'd actually like a Model S but would buy a car from a company I don't believe will exist long enough to honor the warranty.

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, TerryB said:

After the collision in bright sunlight you are referencing, Tesla decided to do more /most of the technology in house to avoid the missed combination of events that led up to that crash.  They are not depending on others to do it all for them.  The self driving car non Tesla crash that claimed the life in AZ? I believe shows the technology is not there 100%.  

 

I will not be at Hershey, sure wish I was as I’m only 20 miles away from it.  Six years ago a non attentive driver decided to turn into my lane of travel while I was having a wonderful morning ride on my motorcycle.  I was the victim of that old l didn’t see the motorcycle syndrome by drivers in too much of a hurry to get somewhere.  With a spinal cord injury that has me paralyzed over 50% of my body and loss of my entire right leg from the accident I applaud the advent of technology that would have sensed my presence and alerted the driver to me.  It’s not perfect yet as you mention and people are too quick to think they do not have to pay attention when it’s activated and accidents still happpen.  I like to believe there will be a time when the technology, even before self driving is fully implemented will protect others from the type of accident I was in.

 

Please fart to your hearts content.  Shoot it towards the East on Rt.322 if you would like me to be it’s target😀.

 

Not to be contentious, but this is an example of the dishonesty I'm talking about. Tesla didn't bring it inhouse because they wanted to. MobileEye, the hardware vendor, pulled the product because they felt Tesla was using it in an unsafe manner. Tesla did claim it was their choice, but this happened long before their own hardware was ready. They were caught completely off-guard and it took years to get their cars to parity with the old hardware.

Edited by Buick64C (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NASA didn’t listen to engineers when they were told about the effects of cold air on solid rocket booster o-rings and paid the price with the Challenger disaster.  Rushing things can have its consequences as we see in all forms in the technology world.   Engineers say “not yet” and management says NOW!  Unfortunately it comes down to that at times.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, padgett said:

However the historical record says the smart way to bet is that Tesla will not last long in its current form

 

No pun intended??!?  Are you saying Tesla will be 21st century version of Oldsmobile and Studebaker who migrated from direct current to gasoline in the end?? 

 

Craig

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I really am puzzled by many of the posters in this thread, I am interpreting that some people don't care for Elon Musk for some reason or another so they wish him failure. Some people are worried about what he is being accused of doing to share holders, really? you guys are concerned about the shareholders, I think failure would be a lot worse to those shareholder's as well as employees. One who is even a member of this site  He may be accused of some unethical things, and that still has to be proven. What about the ethics of Henry Ford and Harry Bennett at the battle of the overpass in 1937? 

for those who might not be familiar please read, and important part of American History as well as Automotive

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-the-ford-motor-company-won-a-battle-and-lost-ground-45814533/

 

I also want to thank the Moderators for deleting some post that I had read in my email notification, that are no longer on the thread..... thanks again

 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazing and sad that this crap has gone on for TEN pages on an "antique" website. Nothing that will be owned by members of our family, but I'm sure we will be forced to pay for another unwanted service. Bob 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

 Nothing that will be owned by members of our family, but I'm sure we will be forced to pay for another unwanted service. Bob 

 

HUH??????? 

Bob, with all due respect I must ask what unwanted service are you going to be forced to pay for?

Edited by John348 (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Amazing and sad that this crap has gone on for TEN pages on an "antique" website. Nothing that will be owned by members of our family, but I'm sure we will be forced to pay for another unwanted service. Bob 

 

10 pages with many posts by you, mostly to complain that not everyone likes what you like. Dont like it font read it. It's really easy not to click on the link and even easyer to not write anything.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, capngrog said:

I like Elon Musk.  He has shaken up both the auto and space industries with his (or his companies') innovative ideas.  In my opinion, both industries needed a bit of stirring up.

 

I hope Tesla (the corporation) succeeds for many reasons, but primarily because it is an American company and a leading innovator in the international automobile industry.

 

I hate the Tesla automobile and hate to admit (but never in writing) that it, by most accounts, is an excellent automobile.  "Makes no sense", you say.  Well yes, but on a visceral level, and as an old school, old car guy I can't stand the concept of our roadways being clogged with hordes of glorified golf carts silently and effortlessly going about their business.  I love the roar, clatter, bang and snort of the infernal combustion engine.  That video posted in this thread of Don Garlits' quest to hit 200 mph in his electric dragster makes me want to short circuit my lunch.  That thing (Don's electromatic demure dragster) is just ... well, it's just ... a non event.  What next, a human pod launched down the quarter mile by an electromagnetic catapult (as on our latest aircraft carrier)?   Soon, gone will be the violence, thoracic shock and sensory overload of a "fuelie" dragster hole shot  launching it to its quarter mile destiny 3 seconds later.  Line the electromatics up for their quarter mile duel, and they will launch like  hummingbirds to the traps a quarter mile away.  Will anyone notice?  Will anyone care?

 

Just sayin'.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

P.S.  I hate electric cars.

 

I understand and appreciate this perspective, but I have to ask: Have you driven a Tesla?   I've owned sports cars, and pretty fast sport sedans, and  I've driven extremely fast gas-powered cars.  But the first Tesla I drove, the Model S 100, was hands-down the most thrilling automobile I have ever driven.  It was a make-your-heart-race, sheer-joy-of-driving, hope-my-wife-tells-me-i-need-to-pick-up-something-far-away-so-i-can-drive feeling.  True, it's really quiet.  But it's also totally insane, rocket-launching acceleration plus incredible handling.   It was pretty far from a "glorified golf cart," at least in my view.  :)

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Musk is an interesting guy as was Howard Hughes and any number of other innovators.

As for the price of his cars have you checked the prices of import cars many of which are north of 50K?

There's no shortage of other American cars the average American can't afford too.

It's about time someone does something REALLY innovative.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now