mercer09 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 How much time before they fold...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 How many billions of taxpayer's dollars have they been given? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Tesla has a strong following despite the recent screw ups by Elon. If anything happens it will be a buyout by a cash heavy company from the US or China. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Might be a great dice roll for Mercedes-Benz, buy it cheap, instant electric cars, and great customer confedence. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) The parts and repair situation can't help. Also, Elon seems to be equal parts genius, flake,and snake oil salesman. Greg in Canada Edited September 10, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history) 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 He and his car have had NO EFFECT on my life, when my 1999 Oldsmobile dies I'll find another. Bob 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amxdreamer Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 I'm honestly surprised it's taken this long. Have you folks seen the youtube videos of the guy who has been doing rebuilds on written off cars? They sell a product that nobody but them is allowed to work on! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: He and his car have had NO EFFECT on my life, when my 1999 Oldsmobile dies I'll find another. Bob It does on mine, many mutual retirement funds including ones I have are invested in the company. Plus lots of people and suppliers depend on the company’s sales to keep people employed. On the other hand, the stock prices being low is attracting investors as reported today in the financial news. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Wildeisen Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Watch the youtube video, that guy is just doing what hot rodders/custom/restorers have done for years. I do not know anything about those cars, I do not understand why a company would not sell parts to repair one of their cars? It would be sad to see another American company sold and owned by a different country 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Only thing holding Tesla together is hype, left coast nit wits and tax dollars. It's unsustainable in it's current form as long as liquid fuels are available.............. Bob 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeke01 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Restorer32 said: How many billions of taxpayer's dollars have they been given? https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/18/tesla-subsidized-whats-truth-claims-tesla-spacex-elon-musk-wealth-exist-subsidies/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Tucker II who will star in the movie? Bob 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vila Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Two things, how does a car company that is only 15 years old get consumer confidence? I don't really believe it is consumer confidence was much as it it the people buying their cars THINK they are no polluting. From what I have read, long will a car company stay in business when they are getting approximately $30,000 in federal and state subsidies per vehicle they see? Until the subsidies run out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, zeke01 said: https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/18/tesla-subsidized-whats-truth-claims-tesla-spacex-elon-musk-wealth-exist-subsidies/ Thank you for brining some sanity to the discussion. A big local natural gas utility wants to move it’s HQ to a nearby municipality and wants 10 yrs of local taxes waived to sweeten the deal. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Elon Musk is a Grade A bs artist but he is also the most successful new car startup since WW2. The Tesla company doesn't stand a chance as a stand alone company, especially now that other car makers are moving into the electric car field and the subsidies are drying up. I don't think the company will fold, I think a big car company will buy them up first and keep the Tesla name as their flagship electric car brand. There is no doubt the electric car is superior to the gas car. Up until now the drawback has been the power supply. But new, better batteries are coming out all the time. A guy in England is working on a battery or super capacitor that has twice the power of present batteries, lasts 50 years and is made out of carbon paper and salt water. If that gets into mass production the electric car will take over most of the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 You are conveniently forgetting that TESLA have built a huge factory to make batteries, for vehicles and other storage requirements such as for domestic (and other) solar power systems. You are also forgetting that China will not be building petrol or diesel vehicles much longer. Volvo has already given a date for ceasing petrol and diesel vehicle production. Oxford, UK, are banning diesel vehicles in the inner city from 2020 and will be ramping up the size of the zone of exclusion over time. Paris, France wants to ban all combustion-engine vehicles by 2030. They are planning on banning diesel cars from the city by 2024, when they host the Olympics. Here are some other places banning vehicles and combustion-engine vehicles. https://www.businessinsider.com.au/cities-going-car-free-ban-2017-8?nojs=1 What we are seeing are the growth pangs of a new technology. Remember that in 1900, there were very few cars on the road. 13 years later there were very few horse-drawn vehicles. As in the early days of vehicles, some makers will not survive in their original form. TESLA has already diversified into components for other makers and industries. Here is an interesting article on the uptake of electric vehicles. https://thedriven.io/2018/09/03/ev-uptake-gathers-speed-1-million-global-sales-added-in-just-six-months/ For your information, here are TESLA vehicle deliveries: from https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1950panhead Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Quote Only thing holding Tesla together is hype, left coast nit wits and tax dollars. It's unsustainable in it's current form as long as liquid fuels are available.............. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf28-LIdjqU Quote Tucker II who will star in the movie? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDpcdhu8qXc Quote Elon Musk is a Grade A bs artist but he is also the most successful new car startup since WW2. The Tesla company doesn't stand a chance as a stand alone company, especially now that other car makers are moving into the electric car field and the subsidies are drying up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billorn Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 Why are we spiking the football because an American company is hurting? Because their electric and we dont like them newfangled electric thingamojiggs? According to that aritcle up there they paid back their loans so they arent sucking the taxpayer dry. It looks like they make a decent product even tho I will never be able to afford one. They employ Americans building American products that are wanted all over the world. Isnt that a good thing? I bet the others are right and the electric cars are only a first step in a chain or a means to an end. I dont think Elan Musk wants to build cars he wants to build electric batteries and power cells and cars are a good first step where you can learn alot and prove a product then move on to something different. It makes me sad to see people who like cars gloating because a car company they dont understand hit a snag. Did you gloat like this when Ford built the Edsel or when Ralph Nadir's Corvair book came out? Their are always growing pains in any industry. An American company is at the front of electric car technology and we should support that not be happy when they stumble. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 2 1/2 hour interview done last week if you want to know what Elon Musk thinks about everything.This is the interview that caused Tesla stock to crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 TWO and a Half HOUR interview? Life is getting shorter for some of us and there are better things to do with my personal time. Bob 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mercer09 Posted September 10, 2018 Author Share Posted September 10, 2018 It makes me sad to see people who like cars gloating because a car company they dont understand hit a snag. Did you gloat like this when Ford built the Edsel or when Ralph Nadir's Corvair book came out? Their are always growing pains in any industry. An American company is at the front of electric car technology and we should support that not be happy when they stumble. dont think it is gloating Bill. some people see reality and some have visions of futures far beyond. In reading this thread, I see 2 groups of people. those that think elon is a hero and others who see him for what he is to me, a quack. I will never say that we shouldnt dream, but with a business background, I see far too much crap coming from elon. It is obvious he wont be bought out, because he was full of it last month when he stated he had secure backing in place to take the co private. nothing but hogwash and wasnt even as smart as Delorean with his goals, and we all know where that went. We live in interesting times and its wonderful for all of these govs to want to be cleaner and run a better environment, but most of it is BS talk. Put your money where your mouth is, but oh yes, show us a sustainable product. That hasnt been done yet.....btw who owns a Volt? cough cough......... In the beggining of the motor age, there were electric vehicles in the cities, and yes the batteries posed a problem over 100 years ago and still do today. then up till 1908, there was steam at the forefront, but that didnt last either. There is a reason for the combustion engine and I believe it will continue for many more years as the world leader. remember, you still must create energy to run the electrics, so it is not all that. alot of dreaming going on, but not a lot of reality. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebowski Posted September 10, 2018 Share Posted September 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said: That video will get a thumbs up from me every time.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I admire Musk and what he has done, and think highly of Tesla cars. It might be that only a major league bs'r could have pulled it off. I am in awe that he managed to start a car company from scratch and make it work as long as he has. That does not blind me to his defects or those of his cars. He is a pioneer of modern electric cars and has the arrows sticking out of him to prove it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) Have wondered for some time just how many electric cars the electric grid can sustain. I remember brownouts with half the population (has tripled here in the last 30 years) at 6pm when everyone got home and turned the AC on. What will happen when they also plug their cars in. The power company is already asking for a rate increase at peak times. There is a whole infrastructure required. We are better suited to switch to E85 than electric in masses. Edited September 11, 2018 by padgett (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 William Durant of GM fame comes to mind. The company will live on, while the founder loses it. Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 How many entrepreneurs fail the first 19 times before hitting the right product or market or whatever and doing all right? Elon Musk is a dreamer. I think he is a bit like me. Find out how it works and goes together, then find something else to think about. He needs finishers in his crew; he is a starter. If he has backers to take the company private, how much of it will he own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarNucopia Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 To answer the OP’s question, I give them to October 11th since that’s when they will need to release their Q3 “earnings”. The company’s financials are horrible and its a house of cards waiting for a stiff breeze. This isn’t about cheering for someone’s failure, it’s about watching someone’s ego direct a promising enterprise into the ground. Elon has accomplished many amazing things, but he has done so on a foundation of untruths. IMO, this will go down as one of the greatest frauds in American history. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, padgett said: Have wondered for some time just how many electric cars the electric grid can sustain. I remember brownouts with half the population (has tripled here in the last 30 years) at 6pm when everyone got home and turned the AC on. What will happen when they also plug their cars in. The power company is already asking for a rate increase at peak times. There is a whole infrastructure required. We are better suited to switch to E85 than electric in masses. Historically electrical utilities have had little or no control over demand so to keep the grid stable they vary the thing under their control: Supply. For that reason electrical utilities like to have a stable or slowly changing demand as it takes time to bring a large power plant on line or to take it off line. In the convoluted terminology, end user generated power is apparently called "negative demand". You might find this interesting: https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/electricity-demand-and-the-duck-curve It is my understanding that Hawaii has enough solar electric generation that they sometimes end up with more "negative demand" in the middle of the day than there is load to soak up. And that is a nightmare for people trying to manage the electrical grid and keep it stable. One suggestion is to encourage charging electrical vehicles at times when there is peak solar: https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/ev-save-california-billions-energy-storage-investment I've got our plug-in hybrid set to start charging when the "super off peak" rates begin. At present that is midnight. It would be trivial to change the setting in the car to move it to another time of day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1935Packard Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I've driven a Model S and a Model 3, and they are incredible cars. They're the most amazing cars I have ever driven. Beautiful, practical, silent, and just insanely fast. (I drove the Model S P100d that has a 0-60 in under 3 seconds; you just put your foot down and it launches you like you're in a rocket. And this from a family sedan.) The self-driving part is amazing, too, even if not fully implemented. The fact that some guy went out and created these extraordinary machines is quite a story. He's a nut, but it's quite a story. I don't know what will happen with Tesla the company. But at least this car nut's view of the car world sees Teslas as something very special that car guys should really appreciate. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, 1935Packard said: I've driven a Model S and a Model 3, and they are incredible cars. They're the most amazing cars I have ever driven. Beautiful, practical, silent, and just insanely fast. (I drove the Model S P100d that has a 0-60 in under 3 seconds; you just put your foot down and it launches you like you're in a rocket. And this from a family sedan.) The self-driving part is amazing, too, even if not fully implemented. The fact that some guy went out and created these extraordinary machines is quite a story. He's a nut, but it's quite a story. I don't know what will happen with Tesla the company. But at least this car nut's view of the car world sees Teslas as something very special that car guys should really appreciate. I agree I had driven one and was also very impressed. It really is the only electric car that looks like it is for enthusiasts. My only criticism is that it does not sound like a car it is too quiet and the acceleration almost give the feel of a theme park ride rather than an automobile, but it was FAST!!!!! I understand nobody accepts change well, including myself but it's coming. As far as the increased load on the grid and our infrastructure that would be negligible, we have been lowering that for the past 15 years. Commercial use of LED light fixtures, efficient appliances and much has had a large effect on that. Edited September 11, 2018 by John348 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Is Tesla still receiving subsidies? Are its cars' owners still receiving subsidies such as tax breaks? I love to see true advancements in any product, but they need to be financially sustainable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 I'll never get to drive one but say there was one blocking a roadway and had to be moved for some emergency, how would someone get in and move it, or is a it a lump that can only me moved by a trained individual.? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: I'll never get to drive one but say there was one blocking a roadway and had to be moved for some emergency, how would someone get in and move it, or is a it a lump that can only me moved by a trained individual.? Bob A bulldozer will move it with no problem if one is handy. If it's a real emergency the last thing a first responder is worried about is the price tag of the obstacle in their way. It wouldn't matter if it was a Duesenberg it needs to be moved however they can. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said: I'll never get to drive one but say there was one blocking a roadway and had to be moved for some emergency, how would someone get in and move it, or is a it a lump that can only me moved by a trained individual.? Bob You can apply that statement/observation to most new cars, At almost $280 a share how can anyone say they are failing? They provide an actual product unlike Google or Facebook do, Edited September 11, 2018 by John348 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_S_in_Penna Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 In a strong stock market, Tesla has fallen 25% in only one month. Not so good, but that alone doesn't indicate they are failing. Up-and-coming stocks tend to be more volatile than stable, established companies. Their stock has fallen almost as much twice this year, before recovering to new highs. I think it remains to be seen how well they do in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Electric is coming (again). It's not here yet though, regardless of what any Tesla owners tell folks at the charging stations to justify their purchases. We had some poor sap with a Nissan Leaf driving 70 miles at a time and then looking for a charging station. He came to our Volvo dealer after Sheetz (regional gas station with chargers) was out of order and the Nissan dealer had just changed buildings and didn't set up their chargers yet. Basically asking us for hand outs, which we gave him out of pity. That's no way to travel. Sure you could rent a car for these trips, but if all do is local you're really no better off than you were with a horse or bicycle in 1905. Frankly that's where I place electric cars right now, 1905. They exist, and can be forced to work, but there are still better options. But 1908 is coming! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Novak Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, Frantz said: Electric is coming (again). It's not here yet though, regardless of what any Tesla owners tell folks at the charging stations to justify their purchases. We had some poor sap with a Nissan Leaf driving 70 miles at a time and then looking for a charging station. He came to our Volvo dealer after Sheetz (regional gas station with chargers) was out of order and the Nissan dealer had just changed buildings and didn't set up their chargers yet. Basically asking us for hand outs, which we gave him out of pity. That's no way to travel. Sure you could rent a car for these trips, but if all do is local you're really no better off than you were with a horse or bicycle in 1905. Frankly that's where I place electric cars right now, 1905. They exist, and can be forced to work, but there are still better options. But 1908 is coming! Lets not forget that the Gas Tax we pay covers things like Road and Interstate repairs and Road Construction. What does the Electric Powered Cars contribute to this as they do not pay Gas Taxes. The end result as Electric Power replaces Gas is we'll be seeing the Gas tax go away and replaced by a Mileage Tax for all vehicles. Good Bad who knows? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Doug you're spot on. No way the government is going to let their revenue go out the window. The taxes collected are easier to swallow for the general public when they just see it as the cost of gas. Start showing them how much a year they're paying and you'll see an uproar. I think that's the main reason we haven't seen a push for change over even as fleet averages of fuel economy keep going up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said: Is Tesla still receiving subsidies? Are its cars' owners still receiving subsidies such as tax breaks? I love to see true advancements in any product, but they need to be financially sustainable. There was a link some posts back on this thread that covered those points if you cared to click through. Basically the subsidies, tax breaks, etc. are not much different than those the petroleum industry is getting. FWIW, there is a limit on the total number of cars by a single manufacturer for which purchasers can get a tax break. And unlike the other plug-in hybrid or pure EV car manufacturers, Tesla is pretty much at that limit which means very shortly their buyers won't get Federal tax breaks. 33 minutes ago, Doug Novak said: Lets not forget that the Gas Tax we pay covers things like Road and Interstate repairs and Road Construction. What does the Electric Powered Cars contribute to this as they do not pay Gas Taxes. The end result as Electric Power replaces Gas is we'll be seeing the Gas tax go away and replaced by a Mileage Tax for all vehicles. Good Bad who knows? California has instituted a fee paid during registration for EVs, and I think plug-ins, to cover the decreased gasoline road tax being collected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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