1937 Buick Special 248 Waterpump Lubrication

[Jack Worstell]

We found a reference which states that the waterpump is supposed to be lubricated

with 10W motor oil ?

 

Is this correct......and if so where do you add the 10W motor oil ?

We can't find a filler plug for this purpose...if in fact this is 

the right way to lubricate a 248 1937   waterpump  ??

 

Jack Worstell   jlwmaster@aol.com

[Jack Welch]

there should be an oil cap on the pump body. It is sown in the owner's manual and the shop manual , if you have either one of these. It should also be 10 wt non detergent oil.

 

 

[MCHinson]

If you don't see the oil cap on the top of the pump body, I would suspect that the water pump might have been replaced at some time in the past with a reproduction water pump with sealed bearings that do not require the oil.

[Spinneyhill]

40 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

10 wt non detergent oil.

Why non-additive oil? What are the additives going to do to ball bearings and brass bushes, if fitted?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

10 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Why non-additive oil? What are the additives going to do to ball bearings and brass bushes, if fitted?

 

 X2!

   Agree with Matt.

 

  Ben

[Jack Welch]

On 9/4/2018 at 9:50 PM, Spinneyhill said:

Why non-additive oil? What are the additives going to do to ball bearings and brass bushes, if fitted?

my concern would not be additives as much as detergent type additives, which can loosen up particles and cause possible wear to bearings etc. I am not an engineer, but my British cars , which still use 1930's technology even in to the fifties and beyond are very clear about not using detergent oils in starters, generators, etc. Detergent olds were not really around in the thirties so I am assuming that the same thought process would hold true for American prewar cars.

[Spinneyhill]

2 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

Detergent olds were not really around in the thirties so I am assuming that the same thought process would hold true for American prewar cars.

I am sorry to upset your apple cart, but such thinking is based on lack of knowledge and incorrect assumptions. 

 

The additives will not hurt anything; they make the oil perform far, far better. Some of them are added to hold combustion products in the oil, so they drain out. Otherwise, those black combustion products (mainly carbon) are deposited EVERYWHERE in the engine, including in the oil passages (e.g. in the crankshaft, on the way to the timing gears, in the tappet chambers, you name it), when oil flow slows, including on shut-down. Oil flow is consequently reduced.

 

Non-additive oil rapidly turns to sludge, with increased viscosity and reduced ability to be pumped around, not to mention much reduced lubricity. The additives slow this process very greatly. This is one of the reasons oil change intervals have been increased from 1500 miles (my 1930 Dodge Brothers Eight) to 15,000 miles (my modern heap).

 

Another of the problems with non-additive oil is that it loses viscosity on heating (i.e. on engine startup) and with reduced viscosity, lubricity is reduced. Multi-grade oils work to prevent this reduction. The effect of this is that there is far less wear on cold start (when almost all wear occurs) than there is with non-additive oil. You will find the oil pressure isn't really high at startup (thick oil is hard to pump around and so there is less oil circulated) but is much more even from cold to hot.

 

It is incorrect that "particles" will be carried around and cause bearing wear. "Particles" will settle out, simple sediment transport rules. And if you have "particles" in the oil that will damage your bearings, the engine is already in trouble and you had best find out where they are coming from and fix the problem(s).

 

What is the base oil stock of non-additive oil? I bet it is the lowest grade oil. If you want cheap, poor quality oil, the oil companies will make it for you, out of the left over low grade stock.

 

Search these fora for "George George". I have outlined a few paragraphs from this 1940 text book on these fora more than once. The above problems in oil were recognised very early on; George George put them very succinctly.

 

For your information, I am using a 5W-40 API CI-4 rated oil in my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8. Oil pressure on startup  is about 5 psi more than when hot. I use a CI-4 oil for zinc. There is a bypass filter, but there are no more available so I change the oil more frequently than I need to.

 

Finally, please read Richard Widman's paper on oil. There is a lot of information in there about viscosity and zinc.

http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html

 

This oil question comes up about every month or so. There are very many discussions on these fora about it.

 

Edited September 6, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Jack Welch]

15 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

I am sorry to upset your apple cart, but such thinking is based on lack of knowledge and incorrect assumptions. 

 

The additives will not hurt anything; they make the oil perform far, far better. Some of them are added to hold combustion products in the oil, so they drain out. Otherwise, those black combustion products (mainly carbon) are deposited EVERYWHERE in the engine, including in the oil passages (e.g. in the crankshaft, on the way to the timing gears, in the tappet chambers, you name it), when oil flow slows, including on shut-down. Oil flow is consequently reduced.

 

Non-additive oil rapidly turns to sludge, with increased viscosity and reduced ability to be pumped around, not to mention much reduced lubricity. The additives slow this process very greatly. This is one of the reasons oil change intervals have been increased from 1500 miles (my 1930 Dodge Brothers Eight) to 15,000 miles (my modern heap).

 

Another of the problems with non-additive oil is that it loses viscosity on heating (i.e. on engine startup) and with reduced viscosity, lubricity is reduced. Multi-grade oils work to prevent this reduction. The effect of this is that there is far less wear on cold start (when almost all wear occurs) than there is with non-additive oil. You will find the oil pressure isn't really high at startup (thick oil is hard to pump around and so there is less oil circulated) but is much more even from cold to hot.

 

It is incorrect that "particles" will be carried around and cause bearing wear. "Particles" will settle out, simple sediment transport rules. And if you have "particles" in the oil that will damage your bearings, the engine is already in trouble and you had best find out where they are coming from and fix the problem(s).

 

What is the base oil stock of non-additive oil? I bet it is the lowest grade oil. If you want cheap, poor quality oil, the oil companies will make it for you, out of the left over low grade stock.

 

Search these fora for "George George". I have outlined a few paragraphs from this 1940 text book on these fora more than once. The above problems in oil were recognised very early on; George George put them very succinctly.

 

For your information, I am using a 5W-40 API CI-4 rated oil in my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8. Oil pressure on startup  is about 5 psi more than when hot. I use a CI-4 oil for zinc. There is a bypass filter, but there are no more available so I change the oil more frequently than I need to.

 

Finally, please read Richard Widman's paper on oil. There is a lot of information in there about viscosity and zinc.

http://www.widman.biz/Corvair/English/Links/Oil.html

 

This oil question comes up about every month or so. There are very many discussions on these fora about it.

 

agree with you on al that, but here were are talking about water pump lubrication only. 

[Spinneyhill]

Same thing applies to the water pump lubrication if it is oil. High shear will turn the oil to sludge. At cold startup it will not lubricate as well as later when warm. Use engine oil, not a special poor quality oil of yesteryear.