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23 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

That's a pretty steady picture for a shot like that.

 

I'm trying to figure out how the tilt wheel ever got in the position its in. Had to be when you took the dash pad off.

 

🙂

 

 

Bernie, so I could have taken off the passenger side front fender and had better access? Never crossed my mind. 

In the past some of the “ easier” methods were more difficult than removing the “ original “ part the hard way.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Bernie, so I could have taken off the passenger side front fender and had better access?

 

Since I accidentally put myself in a position to R&R my right front fender, maybe I should consider making my AC work.

Its just that global warming is taking so long....

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Gents, Moving toward a solution I replaced thermostatic expansion valve, evaporator with new, had all the hoses rebuilt with triple barrier walls for 134a, had the another STV rebuilt, drained the compressor many times with mineral oil until the oil drained clear, replaced mineral oil ( 314ml ) in compressor. Put in a new drier. Flushed all the new lines and evaporator, flushed the condenser with CoolPro. I might say pulling the evaporator cabinet and putting the evaporator cabinet back and connecting hoses became almost second nature after the 16 hours or so. Nonetheless, no surprise when the system didn't hold a vacuum. 

Ill revisit the  project and work on finding and fixing the leaks. The joints under the dash were quite difficult to reach and tighten. I'll want to spend another 2-3 days finding the leaks, then another 2-3 days sealing the leaks. I''ll probably have this AC ready for next season, maybe.

Red Riviera Bob

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Use new green o-rings on every connection every time.  They are cheap.  Lubricate them lightly with a drop or two of mineral oil as you assemble, to not pinch or tear an o-ring.

 

If you have not done so already, put some UV dye into the mineral oil. It will help you find any leaks more easily in the future, after you charge the system and run it (won't help now).

 

Connect both hoses from your manifold gauge set to their corresponding high- and low-pressure taps on the A/C system, and the vacuum pump to the center hose..  Do not leave one hose off of the A/C ports.

 

 

 

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Nothing more FRUSTRATING than putting your blood, sweat & tears into something & end up with a problem. One day one step at a time Bob. You'll be OK.

 

Tom T.

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Bob,

  You can buy refrigerant oil with the green dye already mixed in..think the last time I bought a quart was at Napa.

  At this point, what I would do is, put your old dryer back in, this shouldnt take more than a couple of minutes...and put shop air on the system (120 to 180 lbs depending on your system) and listen. If you have a leak that wont hold 30 inches of vacuum it will surely present itself with over 100 lbs of pressure. Just my 2 cents...this is a technique I have been using for years for hard to locate leaks, especially in the evap case. In your case you will be able to listen for escaping air in any of several locations related to the case because I am assuming you still have the hoses, etc removed from the case but in the circumstance of a fully assembled car one can listen for the escaping air pressure at the evap case drain hoses.

Tom

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With the positive pressure test use dish soap and water mix sprayed on all components. (Heavy on the soap)

Saturate and wait for the bubbles.

 

 

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Gents, thanks for the highly valuable information regarding soapy water test, pressureized air in the system, listening for hissing in the evaporator tank, and use of green O rings ( not torn or pinched) with a little bit of mineral oil. All the fittings had green O rings with mineral oil installed at each location. Care was taken to keep the connections free of grease and debris.

Im waiting on a 1 1/16” crowsfoot to use on a fitting under the dash. None of the local stores have that size crowfoot in stock so the tool is coming from Amazon. 

Ill be out of the country from Sept 23-Oct 12. I’ll resume when I return. Thanks to all, AGAIN for your help.

Red Riviera Bob

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6 hours ago, telriv said:

Nothing more FRUSTRATING than putting your blood, sweat & tears into something & end up with a problem. One day one step at a time Bob. You'll be OK.

 

Tom T.

Tom, if the job was easy I would not enjoy the challenge.

RRB

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With home MIG welders nitrogen bottles are getting more common in garages and it is a better choice for leak testing than compressed air. Recharging a small bottle is about $30. The tanks and regulators are at Harbor Freight or you can adapt your MIG tank.

Car AC systems are very tolerant of non-condensibles, leaks, and the like, compared to commercial systems. But all you need is a few random water molecules traveling through the system to give you a lot of grief. They will turn to ice in the expansion valve and then melt when you try to troubleshoot.

It is better to pressure test with dry nitrogen and a little shot of refrigerant using a sniffer and soap bubbles.

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Bernie, Im all in for using the dry NITROGEN to run down leaks. What is a sniffer? Please give me the real name so I can find it and figure out how to use it along with the soapy water. You mentioned shooting a spot of refrigerant. Since Im using R12 I'll have to find a container of R12 I can use a bit to load in the system. I understand the soapy water part and how that works. I suppose the dry NITROGEN mixed with a tiny bit of refrigerant in the system will leak and blow up the soapy water so I can see the leak? What do I do with the gas in the system once all the leaks are sealed? Vacuum the NITROGEN out of the the system and see if the system holds 28 inches of mercury for a period? Seems to me that would be the routine. I'm happy for comments.

Thank you very much

RRB

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On 9/22/2018 at 3:32 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Bob,

  You can buy refrigerant oil with the green dye already mixed in..think the last time I bought a quart was at Napa.

  At this point, what I would do is, put your old dryer back in, this shouldnt take more than a couple of minutes...and put shop air on the system (120 to 180 lbs depending on your system) and listen. If you have a leak that wont hold 30 inches of vacuum it will surely present itself with over 100 lbs of pressure. Just my 2 cents...this is a technique I have been using for years for hard to locate leaks, especially in the evap case. In your case you will be able to listen for escaping air in any of several locations related to the case because I am assuming you still have the hoses, etc removed from the case but in the circumstance of a fully assembled car one can listen for the escaping air pressure at the evap case drain hoses.

Tom

Tom, one of my friends know I'm hard of hearing in certain instances. In other instances I can hear the dissonance between the minor second and major second played in music. My friend said get a stethoscope to help you hear stuff going on in the evaporator case.

As a precaution, I loaded the compressor with 10.5 oz of mineral oil carefully measured in ml to get the right amount. If I add the refrigerant oil with the green dye won't that dye contaminate the mineral oil I've already loaded in the compressor? As a matter of fact, FlatTop60 suggested using dry nitrogen with a spot of refrigerant to check for leaks. Tom, I appreciate all your contributions because they are most helpful. Generally, I take a little from what each individuals contribute and end up with a mix of all your solutions. For instance, no matter what method I use for testing leaks would not the old drier be best to use again? Can't hurt can it?

RRB 

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1 hour ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Tom, one of my friends know I'm hard of hearing in certain instances. In other instances I can hear the dissonance between the minor second and major second played in music. My friend said get a stethoscope to help you hear stuff going on in the evaporator case.

As a precaution, I loaded the compressor with 10.5 oz of mineral oil carefully measured in ml to get the right amount. If I add the refrigerant oil with the green dye won't that dye contaminate the mineral oil I've already loaded in the compressor? As a matter of fact, FlatTop60 suggested using dry nitrogen with a spot of refrigerant to check for leaks. Tom, I appreciate all your contributions because they are most helpful. Generally, I take a little from what each individuals contribute and end up with a mix of all your solutions. For instance, no matter what method I use for testing leaks would not the old drier be best to use again? Can't hurt can it?

RRB 

Bill,

  An old mechanics trick is to use a short length of heater hose to listen for air leaks. The stethoscope is also a good alternative as is the suggestion to use soapy water as this method is visual, especially helpful for those who have lost the upper hearing range.

  The dye is compatible with the regrigerant oil so contamination is not a problem. Just be sure you choose the right product for the refigerant which you plan to use.

  I personally have not used nitrogen for leak checking. That product has never been available in any automotive/truck shops I have worked in. I have used "sniffers" to check for leaking refigerant but find this method tedious, inconsistent and inaccurate.

  I suggested using the old dryer because if you pressurize the system with typical shop air chances are it will have a significant amount of moisture in it. It only takes a couple of minutes to change out your new dryer so why not remove it so as not to expose it to that moisture. You can reinstall the old dryer (this shouldnt take more than a couple of minutes since you have recently loosened the lines), pressurize the system and repair the leak. Pull a vacuum on the system to remove the moisture and then reinstall the new dryer and repeat the vacuum/leak check before charging.

  If you are concerned with introducing moisture into the system you can pull a vacuum on the system and use the listening device to listen for a vacuum leak. If the leak is large enough you will be able to hear it....but keep in mind you will be pulling outside air thru the system via the leak point.

 

Tom

Edited by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Generally, I take a little from what each individuals contribute and end up with a mix of all your solutions

 

Why does that make me think of the Robin Williams "Golf" monologue.

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I'm impressed with your diligent and amount of time and money you’ve into this.  I hope it turns out. 

I've been working on getting my a/c up and running as well.  Not to your point yet so thanks for all the information.

Your last comment worries me a little 10.5 ounces is for a "new" compressor with no oil.  The service manual breaks it down 4 ounces, 6 ounces etc. based on the work that is done if unable to measure what came out, like most of us.  I loaded my compressor with the 10 ounces yes after super draining it and had A/C apart leak checks the parts individually.  My gauge had a leak so after pulling vacuum for a couple hours it wouldn't hold.  I decided to go ahead and load  1lb of R12 and see if it held .  After fixing gauge It did hold overnight .  So I started loading the additional 2.5lb required to reach 3.5lb.  At about 3lb something plugged up and pressure spiked and blew out an over pressure valve built into the back of the compressor.  Once pressure came down which was quick it held again.  I even ran the compressor some more to see what would happen.  I've since emptied the system and taking everything apart again.  Long story longer haven't found the problem yet but can note there is a TON of oil in the system.  I'm starting to think TOO much oil was present.  I'm going to clean out blow out etc. and try a find a blockage first.  I've rebuild the STV using a kit (mine was very clean inside and looked ok).  New Receiver Dryer. new oil but only 4-6 ounces, leak check and see what happens.

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1 hour ago, flh73 said:

I'm impressed with your diligent and amount of time and money you’ve into this.  I hope it turns out. 

I've been working on getting my a/c up and running as well.  Not to your point yet so thanks for all the information.

Your last comment worries me a little 10.5 ounces is for a "new" compressor with no oil.  The service manual breaks it down 4 ounces, 6 ounces etc. based on the work that is done if unable to measure what came out, like most of us.  I loaded my compressor with the 10 ounces yes after super draining it and had A/C apart leak checks the parts individually.  My gauge had a leak so after pulling vacuum for a couple hours it wouldn't hold.  I decided to go ahead and load  1lb of R12 and see if it held .  After fixing gauge It did hold overnight .  So I started loading the additional 2.5lb required to reach 3.5lb.  At about 3lb something plugged up and pressure spiked and blew out an over pressure valve built into the back of the compressor.  Once pressure came down which was quick it held again.  I even ran the compressor some more to see what would happen.  I've since emptied the system and taking everything apart again.  Long story longer haven't found the problem yet but can note there is a TON of oil in the system.  I'm starting to think TOO much oil was present.  I'm going to clean out blow out etc. and try a find a blockage first.  I've rebuild the STV using a kit (mine was very clean inside and looked ok).  New Receiver Dryer. new oil but only 4-6 ounces, leak check and see what happens.

GARY, my Depression Era thinking is the antithesis of my parts buying behavior on this project. Dad reminded all along, "A fool and his money soon part."

I blew my system out with CoolPro solution. I bought the bottle that holds the solution and hooked it to my compressor ( with a regulator ) followed directions on the CoolPro solution and got everything I could clean. Now, my compressor is NEW in the sense that it is one year old, But was put in service May 2017 while Ive been trying to get cold air. I took the compressor out and drained the oil over a period of days. Then I added oil to rinse the compressor until the rinse oil was clear. I then added the 10.5 oz ( 300ml equals 10 oz. and added tablespoons to make the last half oz.)mineral oil per spec for R12. The system has not been run since I tried to rebuild. Even though the 10.5 oz is in the compressor all I've done is try to pull a vacuum. The system won't hold a vacuum because of leaks. I appreciate your attention to detail and giving me the tip regarding the 4-6 0z. leak check. I was not aware of that piece in the start up. Many thanks. I bought the ALMA newly manufactured A6 with the dual pulley to replace what I think is the original Harrison Compressor. ( I got the ALMA through a NAPA dealer in Cockeysville MD who sourced the ALMA in Texas ) I justify over buying parts by doing the work myself. By example. I asked my 85 year old father in law who is right sharp to watch the AC hoses as I pulled from the cabin. I ended up braking a piece from the #1 vacuum actuator. Luck had it, I. had an extra vacuum actuator to replace immediately. Father in law warned me after I heard something pop under the hood. I only hope I make it to a healthy 85!

Thanks again,

RRB

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5 hours ago, flh73 said:

I'm impressed with your diligent and amount of time and money you’ve into this.  I hope it turns out. 

I've been working on getting my a/c up and running as well.  Not to your point yet so thanks for all the information.

Your last comment worries me a little 10.5 ounces is for a "new" compressor with no oil.  The service manual breaks it down 4 ounces, 6 ounces etc. based on the work that is done if unable to measure what came out, like most of us.  I loaded my compressor with the 10 ounces yes after super draining it and had A/C apart leak checks the parts individually.  My gauge had a leak so after pulling vacuum for a couple hours it wouldn't hold.  I decided to go ahead and load  1lb of R12 and see if it held .  After fixing gauge It did hold overnight .  So I started loading the additional 2.5lb required to reach 3.5lb.  At about 3lb something plugged up and pressure spiked and blew out an over pressure valve built into the back of the compressor.  Once pressure came down which was quick it held again.  I even ran the compressor some more to see what would happen.  I've since emptied the system and taking everything apart again.  Long story longer haven't found the problem yet but can note there is a TON of oil in the system.  I'm starting to think TOO much oil was present.  I'm going to clean out blow out etc. and try a find a blockage first.  I've rebuild the STV using a kit (mine was very clean inside and looked ok).  New Receiver Dryer. new oil but only 4-6 ounces, leak check and see what happens.

Gary,

  Keep in mind the oil in the system is distributed in the components via refrigerant flow. So when isolating each component not only will the compressor sump contain oil but a substantial volume will also be found in the condensor, evaporator, etc

Tom

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Yeah Tom i'm clear about this fact.  The evidence is obvious as i'm taking these components back apart and draining / blowing out alot of oil.  I had the system apart when building the car but maybe didn't clean it our properly.  My final step is flushing system with a cleaner and alcohol as possible.  This is why i think the service manual is onto something when considering how much oil to add to the compressor.  If its NOT a completely empty system 10.5 ounces maybe too much oil.  I think the system especially the compressor and reciever dryer can trap some oil.  This is why they recommend less oil on an a/c system that has gone through repair versus complete replacement.  Once my system is cleaned i may go back down to 6 ounces.  I believe this will be sufficient to lubricate the compressor / system.  

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1 hour ago, flh73 said:

Yeah Tom i'm clear about this fact.  The evidence is obvious as i'm taking these components back apart and draining / blowing out alot of oil.  I had the system apart when building the car but maybe didn't clean it our properly.  My final step is flushing system with a cleaner and alcohol as possible.  This is why i think the service manual is onto something when considering how much oil to add to the compressor.  If its NOT a completely empty system 10.5 ounces maybe too much oil.  I think the system especially the compressor and reciever dryer can trap some oil.  This is why they recommend less oil on an a/c system that has gone through repair versus complete replacement.  Once my system is cleaned i may go back down to 6 ounces.  I believe this will be sufficient to lubricate the compressor / system.  

Hi Gary,

  Generally in the field, if a compressor is being replaced for reasons other than catastrophic failure, it is suggested procedure that the old compressor be drained of oil and the same quantity be substituted in the new compressor. Lately, as in the last 5 or 7 years, the compressors I have changed have already been charged with oil. I suspect the providers are charging the compressors with oil to prevent any oversight by the installer.

Tom

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On 9/25/2018 at 10:26 PM, 60FlatTop said:

 

Why does that make me think of the Robin Williams "Golf" monologue.

Bernie, probably because the comparison is so accurate. Good job and really funny.

RRB

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On 9/27/2018 at 4:57 PM, 1965rivgs said:

Hi Gary,

  Generally in the field, if a compressor is being replaced for reasons other than catastrophic failure, it is suggested procedure that the old compressor be drained of oil and the same quantity be substituted in the new compressor. Lately, as in the last 5 or 7 years, the compressors I have changed have already been charged with oil. I suspect the providers are charging the compressors with oil to prevent any oversight by the installer.

Tom

Tom, since I replaced all the hoses, drier, evaporator, TXV, STV, and I blew out the condenser with CoolPRO, drained the compressor many times after rinse it would seem to me 10.5 oz is the best amount of oil for my process. I believe the compressor is working fine and It is one year old newly manufactured ALMA A6 compressor. After vacuum I believe a truly small amount of oil may have been "drawn" from the compressor, but not enough to replace.

I purchased a full set of flare nut Crowfoot wrenches in hopes of going back and properly tighten the connections. The connections under the dash are really a difficult to reach with the "regular" Crowfoot wrenches. I'm in hopes the flare nut Crowfoot will get the leaks. ( I'm out of town until 12 Oct and can't wait to get back to the task ) I'm thinking positive the replacement of all the components will get the cold air I'm after.

RRB

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Bob, I would just pick some up at a refrigeration supply house or a seal specialty store. The fresher the better. I would stay away from any old stock.

 

You are not far from Washington so watch out for any that might be government surplus rocket booster seals. You can't be too careful around those guys.

Bernie

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