Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Jim, thank you for the heads up on the hydrogen and nitrogen. Probably a couple electrons, protons difference between the hydrogen and nitrogen.

 

Hydrogen has an atomic number of 1 so there is one electron in the first shell and one proton in the nucleus.   Nitrogen has an atomic number of 7 so there are two electrons in the first shell and five in the second shell and seven protons in the nucleus.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Jim, thank you for the heads up on the hydrogen and nitrogen. Probably a couple electrons, protons difference between the hydrogen and nitrogen.

The tip on adding in R12 BEFORE I break the vacuum is appreciated. I’ll have the Compressor mounted, connected and charged with 10.5oz if mineral oil. There are instructions for installing the STV in the manual I’ll follow step by step. I’ll get a pic of me under the dash making my way to the thermostatic expansion valve.

 

You USE the R-12 to break the vacuum after running the vacuum pump overnight.

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/31/2018 at 10:41 PM, KongaMan said:

I'm confused.  If the system was disassembled, there was a point at which it had no refrigerant at all.  So, how did you end up with a mixture of R12 and R134a?

Mr. Konga Man, good question. If the system was opened by having the compressor and drier changed out and ALL refrigerant was removed one way or the other the next to the last monkey added 134a instead of R12. The next to last monkey could have very well used an adapter to my schrader valve and knowingly put in 134a for diagnostics. The last shop started to evacuate the system and their gas analyzer printed out a tape showing what was in the system and what percentage. I had to drive 120 miles round trip to evacuate the gas. 

The car is in my garage with the evaporator, loose, uncovered, and hoses loose ready to be flushed. I hope it goes back easier than it came down. 

17325123-E7AF-4B3A-93B5-754C0C4FFD0D.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2018 at 10:32 PM, Jim Cannon said:

 

You USE the R-12 to break the vacuum after running the vacuum pump overnight.

 

 

Jim, if I understand correctly, with a vacuum on the system I interrupt the vacuum by loading an aerosol can of refrigerant via the low side. The gauges have a port in the middle ( yellow hose)I can add the refrigerant. Do I have it right?  At what juncture do I put in the dye?

RRB

Edited by Red Riviera Bob
Addition (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/9/2018 at 3:17 PM, RivNut said:

Hydrogen has an atomic number of 1 so there is one electron in the first shell and one proton in the nucleus.   Nitrogen has an atomic number of 7 so there are two electrons in the first shell and five in the second shell and seven protons in the nucleus.  

Ed, how about the photons? You know atom bombs, hydrogen bombs, and photon torpedoes?

RRB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Budding chemists beware. Here is a chemical that was actually part of the script for the first Godzilla movie. http://mentalfloss.com/article/556551/michigan-rock-hunter-discovers-glowing-yooperlites-lake-superior-beach

 

In my studies of gases I have learned to quickly recognize those which are ert and those which are inert. I am also learning about computers and have studied both analog AND monolog points.

 

Bernie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Mr. Konga Man, good question. If the system was opened by having the compressor and drier changed out and ALL refrigerant was removed one way or the other the next to the last monkey added 134a instead of R12. The next to last monkey could have very well used an adapter to my schrader valve and knowingly put in 134a for diagnostics. The last shop started to evacuate the system and their gas analyzer printed out a tape showing what was in the system and what percentage. 

 

Without any evidence, we're all guessing here, but I'd still consider the possibility that the charge the last shop analyzed goes back to the first shop and their intentional addition of 134a.  Follow with me here:

- First shop adds 134a to R12, saying that they are compatible.

- Second shop evacuates system, storing the old gas in a containment vessel.  After reassembling and evacuating the system, they fill it with the gas they previously removed on the assumption (i.e. they didn't check) that it was pure R12.

- No idea what the third shop did.

- Last shop tests the gas and discovers the R12/134a mixture.

 

I don't know that it's likely that two shops would intentionally introduce 134a into an R12 system.  One idiot (i.e. the first shop) is bad enough; two is a little suspect.  You might want to check for receipt from the second shop to see how much R12 you were charged for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RRB,

 

Here's another chemical compound that you need to be aware of:  Di-hydrogen Monoxide

 

Di-hydrogen monoxide:

  • it is the major component of acid rain.
  • can cause death if ingested 
  • contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
  • may cause severe burns.
  • contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
  • accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
  • may cause electrical failures
  • causes decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
  • has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

  • as an industrial solvent and coolant.
  • in nuclear power plants.
  • in the production of styrofoam.
  • as a fire retardant.
  • in many forms of cruel animal research.
  • in the distribution of pesticides. even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
  • as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Just make sure that you take caution when handling it.  Better safe than sorry.

 

Ed

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, KongaMan said:

 

Without any evidence, we're all guessing here, but I'd still consider the possibility that the charge the last shop analyzed goes back to the first shop and their intentional addition of 134a.  Follow with me here:

- First shop adds 134a to R12, saying that they are compatible.

- Second shop evacuates system, storing the old gas in a containment vessel.  After reassembling and evacuating the system, they fill it with the gas they previously removed on the assumption (i.e. they didn't check) that it was pure R12.

- No idea what the third shop did.

- Last shop tests the gas and discovers the R12/134a mixture.

 

I don't know that it's likely that two shops would intentionally introduce 134a into an R12 system.  One idiot (i.e. the first shop) is bad enough; two is a little suspect.  You might want to check for receipt from the second shop to see how much R12 you were charged for.

Mr Konga. Man, Thank you for your attention and assistance. I thought I wrote in several posts before I gave the shop that installed the new compressor, drier, and STV a 30 gallon tank of R12 I got from a friend who is a 40+ year Master Mechanic. There was no charge for the R12 from this shop that made the installation. The uninformed individual lacking good judgement was me that first allowed the 134a into the system with the R12. The second shop or installation shop that charged me a pile of money for labor was suppose to use the R12 I gave them in the 30 gallon tank. I got the tank back, but failed to weight the canister to determine how much they used. 

Mr Konga Man, I googled the chemical formula for R12 and found this product on eBay advertised as "the real deal". TelRiv indicated the only way you can determine what your receiving in a container of refrigerant is to test the stuff with a refrigerant tester. 

Screen Shot 2018-09-12 at 12.18.10 PM.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2018 at 10:07 AM, 60FlatTop said:

Budding chemists beware. Here is a chemical that was actually part of the script for the first Godzilla movie. http://mentalfloss.com/article/556551/michigan-rock-hunter-discovers-glowing-yooperlites-lake-superior-beach

 

In my studies of gases I have learned to quickly recognize those which are ert and those which are inert. I am also learning about computers and have studied both analog AND monolog points.

 

Bernie

Bernie, are the monolog points ( these are the ones you set with a match book cover ?) the ones that go next to the condenser ? I mean the condenser under the distributor cap, not the one up the radiator.  🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, RivNut said:

RRB,

 

Here's another chemical compound that you need to be aware of:  Di-hydrogen Monoxide

 

Di-hydrogen monoxide:

  • it is the major component of acid rain.
  • can cause death if ingested 
  • contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
  • may cause severe burns.
  • contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
  • accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
  • may cause electrical failures
  • causes decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
  • has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

  • as an industrial solvent and coolant.
  • in nuclear power plants.
  • in the production of styrofoam.
  • as a fire retardant.
  • in many forms of cruel animal research.
  • in the distribution of pesticides. even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
  • as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Just make sure that you take caution when handling it.  Better safe than sorry.

 

Ed

 

 

Ed, thank you for the heads up on this one. A lot of stuff Ive been around like asbestos and the like and so far no malady from that stuff. I worked in a Refractory plant while attending University of Maryland Baltimore County ( go Retrievers ) and there were many chemicals added to the mix to press the brick.

Im using Cool Pro to flush out the lines I have not rebuilt. ill tell you getting the evaporator out was annoying, but I persisted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

I thought I wrote in several posts before I gave the shop that installed the new compressor, drier, and STV a 30 gallon tank of R12 I got from a friend who is a 40+ year Master Mechanic. There was no charge for the R12 from this shop that made the installation. The uninformed individual lacking good judgement was me that first allowed the 134a into the system with the R12. The second shop or installation shop that charged me a pile of money for labor was suppose to use the R12 I gave them in the 30 gallon tank. I got the tank back, but failed to weight the canister to determine how much they used.

 

It's kind of water under the bridge at this point, but there's no assurance that shop 2 didn't use reclaimed gas for the initial charge and top it off from your tank.  Mind you, there's nothing wrong with doing that.  The problem is that such a strategy rests on faith rather than verification (i.e. they're assuming you started with a charge of pure R12).  The mistake would be in not verifying that prior to reusing the gas.

 

19 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Mr Konga Man, I googled the chemical formula for R12 and found this product on eBay advertised as "the real deal". TelRiv indicated the only way you can determine what your receiving in a container of refrigerant is to test the stuff with a refrigerant tester.

 

While true in a literal sense, that may not be practical.  If you're using gas that's reclaimed or from a dubious source, then yeah.  If you've got cans of clearly labeled refrigerant, then the only reason to test it is if you suspect fraud.  That might not be completely baseless if you're buying a tank fro ma junkyard or something from eBay described as "from Mexico" or the like, but it might be overly paranoid for products purchased through normal commercial channels.  Consider the stuff in your picture.  It's labeled "dichlorodiflouromethane".  That's R12.  Do you need to test that?  I dunno.  Do you think you're being scammed?

 

OTOH, consider a product like Freeze 12.  Do you need to test that that?  Consider that you already know it's not R12.  It was never labeled as such, it was never represented as such, and there's no reason to ever think that you might be getting R12.  You aren't.  Do you know (or care) what you are getting?  Maybe -- but what are you going to do with that info?  What you're relying on there is the veracity of the marketing claims ("works with", "substitute for", etc.).  You know you're rolling the dice before you ever puncture the can.  If you want R12, you don't want that stuff.  You don't need to test it to know that.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Ed, thank you for the heads up on this one. A lot of stuff Ive been around like asbestos and the like and so far no malady from that stuff. I worked in a Refractory plant while attending University of Maryland Baltimore County ( go Retrievers ) and there were many chemicals added to the mix to press the brick.

Im using Cool Pro to flush out the lines I have not rebuilt. ill tell you getting the evaporator out was annoying, but I persisted.

RRB,

 

Write out di-hydrgen monoxide in its chemical formula.  Two hydrogen molecules, one oxygen molecule:  H2O The culprit is water.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/11/2018 at 2:32 AM, Red Riviera Bob said:

Jim, if I understand correctly, with a vacuum on the system I interrupt the vacuum by loading an aerosol can of refrigerant via the low side. The gauges have a port in the middle ( yellow hose)I can add the refrigerant. Do I have it right?  At what juncture do I put in the dye?

RRB

 

Yes.  When you are done pulling a vacuum on the system for a really long time (overnight, 24 hours, etc. -- a long time) you close both manifold valves on the gauge set, turn the vacuum pump off, disconnect the pump and you hook up a can of R12 to the center line (where the pump was connected).  You loosen the center line attachment a little bit at the gauge set manifold to flush the air out with a little R-12, then you tighten it back up.  Open one valve on the gauge set to let R-12 flow into the vacuumed out system until the pressure on the low pressure gauge is a few PSI above zero.  Then close all of the valves and remove the hoses from the A/C system and put caps on the ports.  In this condition, you can drive to the A/C shop for final charge with R-12.

 

 

Edited by Jim Cannon (see edit history)
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/1/2018 at 10:42 AM, RivNut said:

Bob is going to become our "go to" a/c specialist.  He'll have spent enough money to have earned a master certification by the time he's got cold air.  My question for his mechanic who said that R12 and 134a could be mixed is this - "Why does each different refrigerant require a specific fitting on the hose? When you change fittings to put one or the other into the system, doesn't  t the old gas escape?"

Ed, this being my third season trying to get cold air the earlier efforts of how gases were added escapes me. Although I have spent a measurable amount of money, as opposed to a significant amount, it has been a learning experience. I wanted to replace parts as needed and I’ve always liked having spares for back up. The tools have not been that much money. Labor and wasted gases have been a pinch, but I can stand the pain of lost money. The pay off will be great when I get this ac back together and cold air, just in time for Thanksgiving!

RRB

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/1/2018 at 10:42 AM, RivNut said:

Bob is going to become our "go to" a/c specialist.  He'll have spent enough money to have earned a master certification by the time he's got cold air.  My question for his mechanic who said that R12 and 134a could be mixed is this - "Why does each different refrigerant require a specific fitting on the hose? When you change fittings to put one or the other into the system, doesn't  t the old gas escape?"

Ed, I don’t know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents, here is a real pic of me

working on getting the evaporator removed. Would have been easier to remove the evaporator had I disconnected the hoses under the hood.

RRB

A539FAAD-9064-4551-B2D7-85AE6377ED39.jpeg

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a pretty steady picture for a shot like that.

 

I'm trying to figure out how the tilt wheel ever got in the position its in. Had to be when you took the dash pad off.

 

🙂

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Ed, I don’t know.

Use an adapter.  You don't need to remove the R12 fitting; screw the 134a fitting onto it.  These adapters let you use one gauge set for either system.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PWB said:

Where Yoga got started. 

Certified instructor now.

 

Congrats! My favorite many years ago was Kundalini ( breath of fire) yoga. Intense.

RRB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

When you get all this figured out, you can come down and help with mine.

 

Zim, don’t know if it will throw cold air when it is finished being reassembled. What I can say it is somewhat tedious because of reach and tight space fasteners that have to come out. IF, there is a correct tool for the Hard to reach stuff it m i g h t be easier. My present experience lends to alternative decisions regarding stock configuration, 134a, STV replacement, and/or aftermarket ac solution. Wasted $ on R12, pirate labor, and parts will make anyone pause and attempt to measure satisfaction, functional utility, And expense before doing this job a second time. It is a shame I did not have more and better information before I started the restoration I could have saved time and a couple bucks. Sure, I’ll lend a hand; you are not too far away.

RRB

Edited by Red Riviera Bob
Sentence structure (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could just stand there and spin those nuts off and screws right out.

003.thumb.jpg.dcbc048f48f7677a342eeec5f83e3cfe.jpg

 

I put a new heat core in but never even looked at the AC. Imagine how easy it would have been.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now