Need help ID'ing T head engine please

[Steve Royster]

I need help with identifying this T head. Rayfield Carb, pat pending, twin cam roller rockers, herringbone gears, fuel pump, and magneto. No other ID or numbers that I can find.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 

 

[nzcarnerd]

I have no idea what it is but maybe some dimensions, and a guesstimate of what the bore size might be would help. Possibly take a plug out and try working out what the stroke might be?

[Steve Royster]

The previous owner said it was 3'' x 3" bore and stroke. I'll post some pics of it disassembled as soon as I get them.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

[Craig Gillingham]

Is this the same engine?

 

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=174212

[Steve Royster]

Yes,  it is.

[Rusty_OToole]

You will get more viewers in the General Discussion section.

[carbking]

The Rayfield carb is a mystery to me. I think I have every piece of Rayfield literature printed up to and including 1919. All of the Rayfields to that date have the cylindrical float with a hole in the center, and the fuel valve going through the float. A pair of "float followers" attached to a rocker assembly cause the fuel valve to be pressed down as the float raises.

 

The carb in the picture appears to have an offset fuel valve.

 

Can you insert a mirror between the carb and the block to see if there are any casting markings on that side of the carb. Typically, Rayfield would have a letter (or 2) followed by a number. Examples: A-2, GL-3, etc.

 

I have been looking for later Rayfield material for the last 48 years, and found nothing.

 

Jon.

[Steve Royster]

Hi Jon, 

 

It is  an E 2 carb. I have searched everywhere and can find nothing about it. All I know is it was a sidedraft converted to updraft for this engine. If you know anything about an E 2 please share it with me. Here is the pic of the back side.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

[Steve Royster]

Here are a few more pics to help with ID.

 

The mag is a Bosch DU4 model 5 serial #666187, which is 1910 or 1911 depending on the Bosch chart you use.

 

Pics of the primer cups going through the water outlet covers  and the inside of the flywheel.

 

Thanks for the help! 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[nzcarnerd]

Could this be a stationary power unit rather than automotive?

[Steve Royster]

At this point we don't know. All opinions are greatly appreciated.

 

Was told by the previous owner that it was from a car in Illinois and was a spare engine that was only test run and stored for later use in the car. 

 

If you have any input I would love to hear it.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

[gwells]

The flywheel is the part that mystifies me. How would it possibly attach to a clutch or driveline assembly in the current state? Of course, this could be an engine that was never installed in a car or finish machined in the flywheel area. 

[nzcarnerd]

Maybe drives a belt?

[nzcarnerd]

What had me wondering was the quoted bore an stroke figures.  3" x 3" is a very small engine - less than 100 cid.

 

Even the little Overland engine from the early 1920s is 3-3/8" x 4" (for circa 140 cid).

 

We look forward to the day it is dismantled.

[Spinneyhill]

I wouldn't be surprised if it were a farm or machine shop engine, used for driving overhead shaft belt driven equipment off that flywheel. Such things were used in shearing sheds in NZ.

[Stude17]

Has the flywheel been "turned around" and the extension added for a flat belt. I can vaguely see where the side of the flywheel facing the engine is machined for a cone clutch. 

 

Also could it be an early Stoddard Dayton engine say around 1907? I know this doesn't fit with the 1910-1911 vintage of the magneto but perhaps it was changed.

[Spinneyhill]

That retainer plate on the flywheel has been changed at some time. Two of the bolts have been sawn off. It also has penetrating oil on it?

[Steve Royster]

The flywheel is a one-piece casting with no retainer plate. It has been machined on both the inside and outside. The bolts have been cut off flush with the nuts but so have a lot of the bolts holding this engine together. The bore is 3" and stroke is 3-1/2". Quite small, maybe a cyclecar engine? Or maybe just a blacksmith built engine. The brass castings appear to have been machined with a file. 

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

[carbking]

Steve - the letter(s) and numbers should be together. The Rayfield type E has the float with the fuel valve going through the center. I have information on the type E. This one is not a type E.

 

Jon.

[Steve Royster]

Hi Jon,

 

You are correct, it is an F 2. I took if off so I could see the back side better. Here are the pics. Do you have any info on the F 2? 

 

Thanks,

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

[Steve Royster]

Stude17, 

 

I looked up the Stoddard-Dayton engines and they are by far the closest to this one. Oil pan is same type, mounting pads on the block are similar, flywheel and clutch are similar.  I looked at the '07 K, the '08, and the '11 mod 30 and all have similar type parts but not an exact match.

 

It sure looks like someone copied a lot of Stoddard-Dayton ideas.

[Stude17]

OTTO-Sawyer on Smokstak looks at Rayfield Cyclecars and considering that this is a very small engine I would be delving further into Rayfield Cyclecars. As for the brass fuel pump I have never seen anything like it, however, I would suggest that Rayfield would have the engineering expertise to produce such a pump.  Making a wild guess and considering the quality of this engine build is it possible that Rayfield built it for cyclecar use ie with very little vibration?

[mikewest]

In my opinion its a inboard Marine engine.

[Steve Royster]

Mounting base dimensions: Front to back 14-3/4",   Side to side 10" ,  center to center of base mounting holes.

[sagefinds]

Several decades ago I saw a small 4cyl T-head engine in a storage bldg. that was unidentified at the time. Later the owner said it turned out to be for a Case car. Several years later I looked at a Case chassis that also had a small T head. I don't remember any of the details of those engines but that might be another starting point.