SAW1444 Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Will the presence of pollution controls such as a PCV valve result in a points deduction (if these controls were not part of the car as it was delivered to the dealer)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. I would probably want to know a bit more about what type of car and how obvious the non-authentic component(s) are to give a better opinion, but I would say, possibly a small deduction. If the change is required by law in your home state, then probably not. For something not authentic, I would suggest making it blend in to its surrounding components is usually the best choice. A small flat or semigloss black component is unlikely to attract a lot of attention. A bright orange component or something similar that sticks out like a sore thumb is more likely to be a problem. More information and/or a photo of the car and component(s) in question would be helpful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted August 25, 2018 Share Posted August 25, 2018 I agree with Matt's comment above. The deduction for Emission Systems is from 1 to a maximum of 5 points. If the change was required by law, there should be no deduction, but you should have documentation of that and that the car was actually registered in that state to avoid a deduction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAW1444 Posted August 25, 2018 Author Share Posted August 25, 2018 Thanks gentlemen for your response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 On 8/25/2018 at 5:25 AM, MCHinson said: Welcome to the AACA Discussion Forum. I would probably want to know a bit more about what type of car and how obvious the non-authentic component(s) are to give a better opinion, but I would say, possibly a small deduction. If the change is required by law in your home state, then probably not. For something not authentic, I would suggest making it blend in to its surrounding components is usually the best choice. A small flat or semigloss black component is unlikely to attract a lot of attention. A bright orange component or something similar that sticks out like a sore thumb is more likely to be a problem. More information and/or a photo of the car and component(s) in question would be helpful. Matt, what would be your opinion on missing emission controls? Is there enough knowledge to notice on for example a late 70's or early 80's American car all the emission components on a particular year car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Pfeil said: Matt, what would be your opinion on missing emission controls? Is there enough knowledge to notice on for example a late 70's or early 80's American car all the emission components on a particular year car? It would depend on what make and model of car it was and who was on the judging team. If it was a Mustang, a Corvette or a Camaro and you had a team of experienced judges who were very experienced with that particular make and model, it would probably be noticed. If you happened to have a less common car and the judging team was not that familar with that particular vehicle, maybe not. When you have a car that is more common, you are likely to have judges that have seen a lot of them and know some of the very minor differences to expect. With a less common car, that situation is less likely to occur. You should make a car as correct as you can and then I guess it is the luck of the draw on who judges it. You could also have a very uncommon car and happen to have a judge who owns an identical car and is an expert in it, you just never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 29 minutes ago, MCHinson said: It would depend on what make and model of car it was and who was on the judging team. If it was a Mustang, a Corvette or a Camaro and you had a team of experienced judges who were very experienced with that particular make and model, it would probably be noticed. If you happened to have a less common car and the judging team was not that familar with that particular vehicle, maybe not. When you have a car that is more common, you are likely to have judges that have seen a lot of them and know some of the very minor differences to expect. With a less common car, that situation is less likely to occur. You should make a car as correct as you can and then I guess it is the luck of the draw on who judges it. You could also have a very uncommon car and happen to have a judge who owns an identical car and is an expert in it, you just never know. Thank you for your response, but that leads to another question. If a vehicle did receive a award and it was noticed or found out later if something was grossly incorrect could the award be taken away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I am not aware of that ever happening although I could be wrong. I don't think you need to worry about that. I can't imagine an issue serious enough to warrant that action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 On 11/9/2018 at 10:15 AM, MCHinson said: I am not aware of that ever happening although I could be wrong. I don't think you need to worry about that. I can't imagine an issue serious enough to warrant that action. I posted this from the PCV thread on a "Y" block Ford, maybe you missed this. I once saw a feature article in one of the car magazines printed in August 2017 about a AACA 1st Junior award winner. A 1958 Ford Consul, a beautiful car, trouble is it had a automatic trans from a Ford Zephyr ( the six cylinder version of the Consul) because the guys wife couldn't drive a stick shift car, so the story goes. The 1958 Consul didn't come with or have a option to a automatic. That story and pictures, with it's AACA badge and the owners story about switching in a automatic doesn't make AACA judging look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 (edited) On 11/9/2018 at 12:08 PM, Pfeil said: Thank you for your response, but that leads to another question. If a vehicle did receive a award and it was noticed or found out later if something was grossly incorrect could the award be taken away? I am aware of that happening, but it is very, very rare. The owner grossly misrepresented the vehicle to the judges, but was telling the true facts to others who came by to admire the car. As far as your PCV question, your only concern should be if a judge missed it at one show, it may be found and deducted at a future show. Edited November 11, 2018 by 61polara (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Pfeil, Are you saying that the car received an award that it should not have received? A car does not have to be 100% perfect to receive an AACA Award. Are you saying that the car's award was revoked? IF so, why would you ask the previous question? And last, What does this have to do with the original question in this discussion? If you think that there is a car that should not have received an award that it received, your best option would be to send an email to the VP of Judging to ask him about it. It is not appropriate to tack such a discussion onto someone else's unrelated question on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 16 hours ago, MCHinson said: Pfeil, Are you saying that the car received an award that it should not have received? A car does not have to be 100% perfect to receive an AACA Award. Are you saying that the car's award was revoked? IF so, why would you ask the previous question? And last, What does this have to do with the original question in this discussion? If you think that there is a car that should not have received an award that it received, your best option would be to send an email to the VP of Judging to ask him about it. It is not appropriate to tack such a discussion onto someone else's unrelated question on the forum. All I'm saying is this; I once saw a feature article in one of the car magazines printed in August 2017 about a AACA 1st Junior award winner. A 1958 Ford Consul, a beautiful car, trouble is it had a automatic trans from a Ford Zephyr ( the six cylinder version of the Consul) because the guys wife couldn't drive a stick shift car, so the story goes. The 1958 Consul didn't come with or have a option to a automatic. That story and pictures, with it's AACA badge and the owners story about switching in a automatic doesn't make AACA judging look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 From what you are describing, I am not going to worry too much about how one obscure british built 1950s Ford car's transmission swap reflects on AACA Judging. If the car was otherwise "beautiful" as you described it, that change by itself would not be sufficient to drop the car below the amount of points needed for a First Junior award. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 4 hours ago, MCHinson said: From what you are describing, I am not going to worry too much about how one obscure british built 1950s Ford car's transmission swap reflects on AACA Judging. If the car was otherwise "beautiful" as you described it, that change by itself would not be sufficient to drop the car below the amount of points needed for a First Junior award. Not knowing the points system of AACA I am surprised and disappointed. Knowing the points system in two other mark clubs that have stock, semi modified and fully modified categories in one club, and stock, street stock and modified in another club a automatic install into a vehicle that never had one or the option of even having one would definitely put you in a modified category and would certainly not be allowed in stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted sweet Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 do really think any aaca judge would now that info about such a obcsure car? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, ted sweet said: do really think any aaca judge would now that info about such a obcsure car? If he's judging it, he better know it. Besides the fit and finish he better know how the car came from the factory. If he lets something go it hurts the organization and his credibility and think about the guy who has a correct car and sees a award bestowed on something that really shouldn't. Think of the people who see a badge on a car and have a car like it and want to restore their car so they take a bunch of pictures and duplicate the same mistake thinking the car is correct. Would you have a judge of fine wine sit on the bench and be a judge in a criminal case. You need to know what you are looking at. Edited November 12, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Come join us as a judge. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Pfeil, AACA Judges all makes of vehicles. AACA Judges are not going to be experts on every make and model. You really should attend a judging school and become a judge. You would benefit from the experience. AACA does not make any representation that its judges are experts on every obscure car to be able to identify which different options were available on every car. (and I see that 61Polara and I were typing at the same time but he is faster to post) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frantz Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 AACA is not as much about being competitive against one another as it is against yourself and history. Our clubs goal is to preserve cars to showroom new. It's the job of owners to do that. Judges do not know, nor are they expected to know the ins and outs of the cars they judge. It's up to the owner to be honest about such things. There isn't anything to be proud of in sneaking something past the judges. As was said above, in many cases the wrong transmission isn't enough to knock a car out of a 1st Jr anyhow if the rest of the car is right. You can't even see the transmission for a RWD while judging all that well. Youd lose max points for transmission drive and for the shifter. I'd say it would be better placed in DPC. If you insist judges have to know they car they judge, half the cars wouldn't be judged at all. AACA isn't trying to claim to have the strictest judging standards, there are marque specific clubs for that. Judges are volunteers who give up our time to be there and help facilitate events and do their best with standards specifically designed to judge cars that you may not be familiar with. There are plenty of cars that have awards that wouldn't on a different day with a different judging team, I don't think that's bad for the clubs intent at all. I don't think a 1958 Ford Consul with an automatic transmission but otherwise fully restored is doing anything to hurt the hobby unless the owner is going around telling people it's stock... but if it's because his wife can't drive stick, it doesn't sound like that's happening. Would it be better for the hobby if he never restored the car and never showed it at events? I don't believe so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pfeil Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Thanks guys, I think I have a pretty good idea of how things work now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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