Point Deduction for PCV Valve on Y-Block Ford Engine

[1957Birdman]

What is the judging point deduction (if any) for a Ford Y-Block engine that has a PCV valve installed in place of the OEM road draft tube?

Thanks,

Lew Bachman

1957 T-Bird Colonial White 

[61polara]

Emission systems carry a deduction of up to a maximum of 5 points, so it should be somewhere between 1 and 5 points.

[1957Birdman]

Thanks for your response. What determines the number of points deducted? 

Thanks,

Lew

[61polara]

The judge determines the actual points deducted.  The maximum deduction is generally used for an incorrect, missing or no longer fit for its intended purpose.  In your case, up to a 5 point deduction could be justified.  Whenever a maximum deduction is stated by the judge, the team captain questions the judge about why a maximum deduction is proper and generally validates the deduction before it is taken.

[Restorer32]

Sounds like a max deduction to me since the part is missing or at best incorrect.

[Frantz]

You could do a max deduction for either the fact that the original down draft tube is absent or because a non factory part was installed if you are doing it by the books. Of course that should warrant a conversation with the owner and if there were some requirement to do so and you have documentation then you'd be good. However, I'm not aware of any states requiring emissions equipment to be added to a car that did not originally come with that. You could bring the correct parts and put them back on once on the showfield for judging and put the emission stuff back on after the judging. If you opt for that, keep in mind that the cars may be judged more than once. National judged come by after regular judges. In fact you could be judged by three different groups by the end, so don't get the wrenches out after the first pass.

[Joe Block]

As I recall California required retrofitting OFF valves in the 1979. Perhaps other states too.

[junkyardjeff]

They had a PCV around 62 and have gotten the parts off a 63 or 64 truck in the junkyard,would be a easy swap in a 57 T bird since it probably has the same valley pan as the ones with the PCV and if using factory parts might not be that noticable.

[Pfeil]

California had PVC in 1961, 1962 for the Fed. Also in the late 60's early 70's California had a law that made you take the road draft system off cars from 1955 to 1960 and install PVC. They also required a exhaust emission devise ( Echlin made them ) that disconnected the distributor vacuum advance plug it, set the timing to a different spec. and set the Co to 1.5% and seal the idle mixture screws with epoxy caps so that the mixture could not be tampered with. Many of these cars met a very early grave and  afterwards after many complaints from owners and after the state evaluated samples of these cars finding that many samples they tested blew up on their dynos the law was repealed. As I recall the PCV was left unchanged and that part was still mandatory on the cars that were made to change over from the road draft system. 

Edited November 6, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Grimy]

15 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

California had PVC in 1961, 1962 for the Fed. Also in the late 60's early 70's California had a law that made you take the road draft system off cars from 1955 to 1960 and install PVC. They also required a exhaust emission devise ( Echlin made them ) that disconnected the distributor vacuum advance plug it, set the timing to a different spec. and set the Co to 1.5% and seal the idle mixture screws with epoxy caps so that the mixture could not be tampered with. Many of these cars met a very early grave and  afterwards after many complaints from owners and after the state evaluated samples of these cars finding that many samples they tested blew up on their dynos the law was repealed. As I recall the PCV was left unchanged and that part was still mandatory on the cars that were made to change over from the road draft system. 

Earlier than that for the PCV retrofit and road draft tube plugging in The Pipples Republik.  I remember being required to do it to my 1950 Pontiac 6 in late 1962 or early 1963, grumbling all the while.  The vacuum advance disconnect came later.

[Pfeil]

23 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Earlier than that for the PCV retrofit and road draft tube plugging in The Pipples Republik.  I remember being required to do it to my 1950 Pontiac 6 in late 1962 or early 1963, grumbling all the while.  The vacuum advance disconnect came later.

Don't remember that, but my 1955-1960 quote for the Echlin devise still stands. I used to have a Ca. smog license back then.

 

So if this devise ( PVC ) shows up on a CA. car in judging and it was a state law I say it shouldn't be a point deduction. 

[Grimy]

3 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

So if this devise ( PVC ) shows up on a CA. car in judging and it was a state law I say it shouldn't be a point deduction. 

I agree in principle, but semi-difficult to obtain official documentation.  And now in CA, pre-1976 vehicles are exempt from biennial smog inspections.  If they had kept the rolling 30-year exemption (they didn't), I'd still have a gray market 1981 280SL which was EPA-ized and Californicated when brought into CA in 1983, but the BAR later raised the performance bar beyond the 1983 mandated mods.

[Pfeil]

5 hours ago, Grimy said:

I agree in principle, but semi-difficult to obtain official documentation.  And now in CA, pre-1976 vehicles are exempt from biennial smog inspections.  If they had kept the rolling 30-year exemption (they didn't), I'd still have a gray market 1981 280SL which was EPA-ized and Californicated when brought into CA in 1983, but the BAR later raised the performance bar beyond the 1983 mandated mods.

 My understanding of the law was on these cars ( 1955-1960)  the devises were installed when a vehicle changed hands. Preexisting Owners with cars were exempt. After the law was repealed all cars were exempt, but the one that had them had to keep them.

 As far as cars with exhaust controls ( cars that are 1966 to 1975 ) go. 1966-1975 cars are exempt from emission testing, however these vehicles must have on them all their emission equipment.

 Cars from 1976 to present must have all their emission equipment and will be tested as long as they are on the road.

 The reason the 1966-1975 cars must have all their emission equipment and functioning properly is that if the AQMD or BAR or CARB decide that the air quality is regressing that they can pull the 1966-1975 cars back into testing. This already written into Ca. law so they can pull them into testing without a referendum.

Edited November 6, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

I would bet that if you used factory parts some judges probably would not notice it,

[Pfeil]

It is imperative that judges have to know what they are looking at while judging a 1966 to 1993 ( 25 year and a antique ). They need to know where all the stuff is under the hood or credibility suffers, especially if a car makes it's way into a publication like Collectible Automobile or Hemmings Classic car magazine.

 I once saw a feature article on a AACA 1st Junior award winner. A 1958 Ford Consul, a beautiful car, trouble is it had a automatic trans from a  Ford Zephyr ( the six cylinder version of the Consul) because the guys wife couldn't drive a stick shift car, so the story goes. The 1958 Consul didn't come with or have a option to a automatic. That story, with it's AACA badge and the owners story about switching in a automatic doesn't make AACA judging look good.      

[junkyardjeff]

If you are worried about point deductions do not put a PCV system on it,when my 55 sunliner gets a Y block again its going to to get the early 60s factory PCV system and have the original road draft tube blocked off and be on there just to look original. It had a different road draft tube then the 57 and later Y blocks where it is on the block down low up front and I can use both and the PCV system will be behind the carb and out of sight and one would have to go looking to find it.

[misterc9]

Chevorlet offered a factory and dealer installed PCV system from 55 to 62. This was mostly aimed at taxi and police fleets but could be ordered on other models. This setup would be correct for judging on a Chevy.. Maybe Ford had a similar option.