Maxwell 1915

[talbotracer]

hello from the UK

i have an unrestored original condition 1915 Maxwell and would like to know if the gearbox has oil or semi fluid grease in it, aslo has anybody stripped a back axle i could do with some pictures before i do mine

thnaks

pete

[ulrace]

I have a 1916 maxwell and use regular gear lube like you would put in any car or truck. When the car was built they just used heavy oil as gear lube did not exist.

bob

[talbotracer]

as in SAE 90?

[hddennis]

Talbotracer,  gear oil is kind of a personal preference based on type of usage and your assumed knowledge of what they meant by "heavy gear oil" in manuals from 100 years ago. Having worked on many cars pre WWII  my preference is 600w oil available from many antique Ford parts suppliers. It's been used in millions of  4 and 8 cylinder Fords since almost the very beginning for transmissions and rear axles.

 

I'm including some pictures from my 1917 Maxwell when I had the rear axle apart. I just discovered I took no pictures of the driveshaft  but maybe these will give you a little idea of what to expect. Note I had already removed the damaged ring gear. Do you have an owners manual or parts book as they show detailed drawings?

 

Howard Dennis

Edited August 14, 2018 by hddennis (see edit history)

[talbotracer]

thank you for the great pictures, it looks a simple design much like the front prop joint with several places for the wear to happen.

 i have had the hubs off and the slack is not at that end  so i just better strip it

as for the oil here in the UK its harder to find stuff for the T i will need to speak to people over here with this type of car, all my cars so far have been 1920's upwards other than my 1917 ALF but that was built like a brick outhouse!

 

[hddennis]

16 minutes ago, talbotracer said:

thank you for the great pictures, it looks a simple design much like the front prop joint with several places for the wear to happen.

 i have had the hubs off and the slack is not at that end  so i just better strip it

as for the oil here in the UK its harder to find stuff for the T i will need to speak to people over here with this type of car, all my cars so far have been 1920's upwards other than my 1917 ALF but that was built like a brick outhouse!

 

A quick Google search turn up one supplier but I'm sure there are more:

https://www.oneillvintageford.co.uk/acatalog/Gearbox_Axle_Oil.html

 

Just another note from my personal experience. My 1917 came to me with a blown rear axle and it took me years and the purchase of the internals of 10 rear axles from as far away as New Zealand to get a functioning rear axle. Every single one had either had a catastrophic failure in the past or was about to when it was parked. If memory serves me correctly these axles run roughly from 1914 to 1919 or thereabouts. It appears that Maxwell was dealing with car production, secret wartime production and a labor force shortage due to WWI. As a result it's believed somewhere during this period the factory over hardened some ring and pinion gears to the point that they were full of spider web cracks and started shedding bits almost immediately. I got one set of gears out of one axle that had a failure and was repaired with all new parts except the carrier which then failed when put back in service and the car was then junked. I thought I had hit a home run until cleaning revealed the spider web cracks all over the gears. I believe the change happened after your car was built and closer to my years but I just wanted to give you a heads up on this possibility.

 

Howard Dennis 

[talbotracer]

again thanks, i had heard that the axles where a problem, mine was last used in 1957 it has slack but its not noisy but as you say it could be on the point of going, i am not sure if mine is original or was restored to go into the museum maybe i will be lucky and find its good enough to be repaired or maybe i could fit anther axle did you think of that? i am not sure if i could find 10 axles these days

pete

[hddennis]

When my uncle first acquired this in the early 1990's I started down the road of trying to fit a Model T Ford center section to the Maxwell tubes and axles and found it was VERY close but my uncle didn't want to spend for the needed machine work and the project was put away until I acquired it in 2007. I decided to try to keep it all original and it was not only costly but time consuming as well.

 

Howard Dennis

[talbotracer]

well i stripped the axle, it has had some problems but i could not find any bits so i assume its been done some time ago, there is slack in the diff but can not see any cracks but will get some of the testing fluid tomorrow

[hddennis]

Doesn't look too bad, hopefully yours is enough older than mine that they were still hardening the gears correctly. I've attached pictures of the one purchase I thought was perfect because the gears looked brand new. Notice the damage that the previous mechanic missed when he rebuilt it with new parts when the brittle gears failed and scarred up  the carrier just like yours. Apparently the first failure stressed the carrier and it pulled apart inside the bearing race when put back in service.

Another area I had trouble with was finding two carrier halves that had a tight fit on the spider gear cross. My theory is when the gears started to fail they lost tiny bits from the hundreds of tiny cracks and the gears and roller bearings ground them up into a very abrasive slurry that eventually wore out any surface it touched. To give Maxwell and Hyatt bearings proper credit  I've never seen a broken bearing just highly worn. I doubt if modern bearings could survive such a terrible operating condition but the Hyatt bearings and the little Maxwell just chugged along until something large broke off and jammed up everything till something major broke.

 

Howard Dennis 

[Joe in Canada]

Remember if there is brass in the rear axle you cannot use just any gear lube. Most gear lubes will eat the brass.

[talbotracer]

no Brass in it thanks for the reminder

[mrcvs]

Howard,

 

What is the serial number of your Maxwell?

 

Thanks in advance.

[hddennis]

48 minutes ago, mrcvs said:

Howard,

 

What is the serial number of your Maxwell?

 

Thanks in advance.

Ian,  My  chassis # 180649 and engine # 181555. Why do you ask?

 

Howard Dennis

[mrcvs]

I asked because I misread your earlier statement --hopefully the OP's car is years earlier than yours and hence decent gears.  My mind read this as differing gear quality within the same year and I wanted to see how close yours is to mine. The implication was how close is yours to mine, as in what are the odds mine might have stress fractures in the gears, without having examined them.  Note: seven key not working.  With a serial number of 1691eighty-seven, this interpolated as to late Setember 19Seventeen.  The odds are probably not good.

[hddennis]

Ian, just curious how you figured out when a serial number was produced?  Do you have production number tables I've never seen?

[mrcvs]

32 minutes ago, hddennis said:

Ian, just curious how you figured out when a serial number was produced?  Do you have production number tables I've never seen?

I took the serial number at the start of the year and the end of the year and interpolated as to when might have been produced.  This assumes a constant production rate and is completely unscientific and could, in reality, be off by as much as several months.

[talbotracer]

Anybody got a wiring diagram for this car please

 

[hddennis]

5 hours ago, talbotracer said:

Anybody got a wiring diagram for this car please

 

Two questions, do you have  a Simm-Huff starter/generator AND also a Simms-Huff magneto? I ask because a lot of things can  get changed in 103 years!

 

Here's factory literature on a 1915 Maxwell.

Howard Dennis

[hddennis]

[hddennis]

[talbotracer]

i have the starter dynamo but not the Mag, it has a points conversion similar to the Model T one

CHEERS for the works manual

 

[hddennis]

Like I said above many changes can happen over 103 years. I'm pretty sure your Model T like conversion is an Atwater-Kent distributor that came out on the Late 1917 Maxwell. Between 1915 and 1919 Maxwell used about 8 different dash panels and wiring configurations. Could you post a picture of your dash panel that also shows the fuse panel configuration?

 

Howard Dennis

[hddennis]

Talbotracer,  I was going over my files looking for information to help you when I discovered something I never noticed before because I've never actually physically seen a 1915 Maxwell. Unlike later Maxwell's it appears yours does not actually have a central dash panel.  Maybe you could help me with my files and post pictures showing what your regulator looks like and where it is located?

 

Howard Dennis

[talbotracer]

i think this is the regulator?  its under the seat, the other item is on the end of the starter 

pete

[hddennis]

Thanks Pete, I appreciate the pictures. I'm praying for you that the regulator is still functioning. I've been chasing Maxwell information and parts since 1991 and this is the first time I've ever seen this variation.

 

Could I get the measurements for the cover on your starter switch? I ask because I've ran across 2 sizes and the larger one is what I've seen the most but yours appears to be the smaller version.

 

Howard Dennis

[talbotracer]

3 inches long 11/2 inches wide 2 inches high

[talbotracer]

my Repaired front prop joint is back and the parts for the diff, 

[talbotracer]

i have the original front mat for my car in bad condition i have found a firm that can print me a copy onto vinyl, but i have a problem with what is supposed to be where the heel of the foot sits on it has anybody a picture of what should be there

Thanks

ps my diff is re fitted and the reconditioned front prop joint is all in soon be ready for a test

[talbotracer]

A stupid question what does the transformer coil do? i am trying to rewire my Maxwell and i have cut of wires all over the place, on my car the wire goes from the starter switch to the coil then to the mag but mine has the wire going to the fuse board area but is cut of HELP PLEASE

[hddennis]

1 hour ago, talbotracer said:

A stupid question what does the transformer coil do? i am trying to rewire my Maxwell and i have cut of wires all over the place, on my car the wire goes from the starter switch to the coil then to the mag but mine has the wire going to the fuse board area but is cut of HELP PLEASE

Talbotracer, Does this help? 

http://forums.aaca.org/topic/140574-1916-maxwell-ignition-coil/

 

 

Howard Dennis

[talbotracer]

yep that is great thanks, i do not have a magneto so its not needed

pete

Edited November 14, 2018 by talbotracer (see edit history)

[talbotracer]

any body got an exploded view of this starter switch i cannot get any power through it

Thanks

pete

[hddennis]

3 hours ago, talbotracer said:

any body got an exploded view of this starter switch i cannot get any power through it

Thanks

pete

Pete, See if this helps.

 

https://patents.google.com/patent/US1300970A/en?oq=us+patent+1300970

 

 

[talbotracer]

yes and no the wires on these pictures are not the same position as mine but i will ut able to sort it out with luck thank you

[talbotracer]

 from the link you sent what are A and P as i said the cables on my car are connected differently to the diagrams

Thanks

Pete

[hddennis]

1 hour ago, talbotracer said:

 from the link you sent what are A and P as i said the cables on my car are connected differently to the diagrams

Thanks

Pete

Good question Pete! Just because I provide these answers doesn't mean I understand them,  and anything electrical is my worst subject. Then add in the fact that you need a Patent lawyer to read these documents as well as an engineer. I was able to find P is the starter generator. A is listed as the engine in one sentence but clearly in this illustration it isn't the engine??

Another factor in your case is we are dealing with illustrations of 1914-15 Maxwells that came with magneto's and dry cells and transformer coils and your car has been converted to the later more modern Atwater-Kent Distributor.

 

Howard Dennis

[talbotracer]

at least you are honest and telling it like it is, i will have to sit down by the car and work it out, i still have all of the cables and most of the bits associated with the mag on the car so maybe i can trace it all back thanks for you help

if i get it to work i will let you know

pete

[talbotracer]

i have just printed out all of the info on that link, loads of spelling mistakes but i think i can work it out 

pete

[hddennis]

3 hours ago, talbotracer said:

 from the link you sent what are A and P as i said the cables on my car are connected differently to the diagrams

Thanks

Pete

Pete, Just thought of one other possible problem, do you know if your dash is original 1915 configuration or was it converted to a later version as well?

 

Howard Dennis