Ray Bell Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 I came across this the other day... [img]https://s26.postimg.cc/j0h1kpasp/0818mngndmysterychassis_LF.jpg[/img] Some features which stand out are the inlet tract through the centre of the block, the king-pin style, the shape of the final drive... [img]https://s26.postimg.cc/qt7pcow7d/0818mngndmysterychassisrearaxleand_RHR.jpg[/img] ...the use of a Warner Gear transmission... [img]https://s26.postimg.cc/kfim9eoqh/0818mngndmysterychassisgearbox.jpg[/img] ...the skinny driveshaft and the style of universal joint, along with the wide bellhousing rigidly mounted to the chassis: [img]https://s26.postimg.cc/44iid473t/0818mngndmysterychassis_LR.jpg[/img] And here's the right side: [img]https://s26.postimg.cc/r5z3ivm6x/0818mngndmysterychassis_RF.jpg[/img] Obviously it's been lying around for a long time, I am hoping someone can identify it for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 10, 2018 Author Share Posted August 10, 2018 Okay, it seems my pics won't load up in the conventional way... Let's try again: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Well you have been able to eliminate many cars as this one has "Mechanics" U-joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted August 10, 2018 Share Posted August 10, 2018 Possibly Studebaker Big Six commercial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 (edited) Big Six had the cylinders equally spaced? Also had a water jacket on the LHS. Edited August 11, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Those Hartford friction shocks on the front end have to be worth salvaging. They are probably worth more than everything else. The reproduction ones are hundreds of dollars each. Greg in Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Big six was the first thing I thought of, but as Spinneyhill noted, the cylinder spacing looks wrong. The big six cylinders do not look evenly spaced to me, they look more like pairs. In any event they look different than the cylinders on the unidentified car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 All - This six-cylinder engine appears to mount a side-draft carburetor and it has its manifold cast in-bloc. Side-draft carb cars with cast-en-block manifolds are somewhat rare so that would limit the field I think, quite a bit. Kissel kar sixes used this identical setup in 1915-1925 or so, but this is NOT a Kissel engine nor frame. Kissel 6 engines had water jackets complete at the cylinders as pictured below. Suggest somebody use the side-draft carb listing as a key. Ron Hausmann P.E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 The chassis cross brace is bit unusual? Also, there is a cutout in the side of the crankcase LHS below the gap in cylinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: Also, there is a cutout in the side of the crankcase LHS below the gap in cylinders. I think it is a main bearing support. That, along with the cylinder spacing suggests to me there are only 3 main bearings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 This must have been righthand drive? Is it in Australia? because it sort of looks like it is going by the background. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 It appears to me, after viewing both sides of the block, that the inlet tract comes through the centre of the block and then into a bolt-on manifold. Which may be one piece with the exhaust manifold. Yes, it is in Australia. North-Western NSW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattml430 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 Might be something like an early International truck with the size of the chassis rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dictator27 Posted August 11, 2018 Share Posted August 11, 2018 There was another engine on here a few months ago which had the carb bolted directly to the block and internal intake manifolding. It was ultimately identified as a Chalmers IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 As I mentioned, this does not have internal intake manifolding, the passage through the block simply takes the intake charge to a regular manifold for distribution. There are five ports each end of the engine and also the tract through the centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 11, 2018 Author Share Posted August 11, 2018 I googled pics and found no Internationals with a chassis anything like this. Their chassis in the twenties and before were all straight over the back axle, as most trucks are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron hausmann Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Thanks Ray Bell. you are correct. I should have looked at the other pictures before jumping in. No internal manifolding. RON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Do you have a photo of the back wheel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 Mybe this will help with identifying ? Leif in Sweden https://digital.library.in.gov/Record/BSU_MunHisPhoto-1148 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I'm sure this is an early 20's Paige (6-42) or possibly Jewett. Things like the Warner gearbox, Mechanics uni-joints, Hartford shock absorbers all match. Some of them also use either a side-mount Stromberg or Rayfield carburettor with the vertical bolt mounts like this. They also had an option of Disteel disk wheels; possibly that's what the wheel is on this chassis? I can't find any better photos in my books, or online to support my theory, but I do know Paiges and Jewetts were sold here at the time, although, they aren't common. Photos came from: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1923_Jewett_Six_touring_(5755323457).jpg https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/Stock-Images/jewett.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Ahh... this is really getting somewhere... All the detail in the above photo is confirming that it's a Paige. The mount for the horn, for instance, the inspection hole on the RHS of the bellhousing, shape of the chassis around the rear, and the crossmember and the various attachments to it. There are no wheels, by the way. Or is there one on the LHR? I have no more detailed photos showing more of that, but I'll be back out that way this week. Do you think anyone would want the engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) it's probably closer to a Jewett, the problem is those rear dumb-irons are different to most of the Paiges I've looked at; one did, however, have see a chassis with the shorter ones like this. I can't find any clear photos of a Paige chassis to see for sure. Possibly the engines are the same between the two, whether someone wants it, I couldn't tell you. I thought I could see a wheel at the LHR, although I could be wrong. And it's also odd to have a friction shock absorber mounted behind the axle, I'm not sure how it would connect to the axle itself. I've since found this car: https://gosfordclassiccarmuseum.com.au/surplus-car/1923-jewett-phaeton-tourer/ Edited August 12, 2018 by Craig Gillingham (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 I think I see a slight variation in the actual shape of the rear dumb-irons in the photo of the rear wheel on the linked page. Otherwise it's looking pretty good. I'll get more photos on Wednesday. And now I've seen this stuff I'll look for more clues. Thanks to all, we'll see how this pans out in a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 (edited) The Jewett engine looks correct.... Edited August 12, 2018 by keiser31 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Yes, and the Paige is identical... The chassis seems fairly unchanged from about 1920 to 1923 but the engines seem to have the distributor in a different place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 This is a 1921 Paige 6-44 engine. Photo from here: https://www.wcroberts.org/Paige_History/Images/1921_Paige_Glenbrook_3.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Well, PAIGE cast in the RHS of the engine block is a giveaway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) Quote Well, PAIGE cast in the RHS of the engine block is a giveaway! What you're looking at is actually the tappet cover. The inlet & exhaust valve train is on the RHS of this side valve engine. I'm guessing the tappet cover is probably pressed steel and in those days they made changes to minor parts like that just about every 6 months, so whether it's stamped Paige or not, I wouldn't count on it. I'm secretly hoping it's a smaller Paige, as it would be a bit of a discovery, although it's probably more likely to be a Jewett, as they sold more of them and they were cheaper. Edited August 13, 2018 by Craig Gillingham (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 (edited) There were changes to the sideplates, it's true... Even the shape and manner of fixing changed. This one is from a 1922 Paige (I think) and has the sideplates tapering at the ends, and only fixed with one central bolt. And they're cast alloy, by the look of things. Edited August 13, 2018 by Ray Bell Wrote wrong make! (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 Here's the other pic I took last week... Directly front on, it shows that there's been a bit of a 'woof' in the left side of the chassis. Probably when a bulldozer or something has pushed it aside during some roadworks. Yeah, this thing is all sitting on the side of a bush road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 A 1922 Paige that I worked on years ago had the starter on the opposite side as the photo of the Jewett. So the starter was on the right on that car. On the left for the Jewett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 An excellent point... I should have noticed that from the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Even if nobody wants it I guess the Jewett Registry would like to know about it. One more to tick off the list maybe. Hopefully here are some numbers that can be recorded. http://www.jewettsix.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Bell Posted August 13, 2018 Author Share Posted August 13, 2018 I'll see what I can find... Can someone contact them and get them to e.mail me? raybell -at- dalveen.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzcarnerd Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, Ray Bell said: I'll see what I can find... Can someone contact them and get them to e.mail me? raybell -at- dalveen.net Just had a look on that website and there does not seem to be a contact email. Maybe you could find someone in your local vintage car club who knows of a Jewett owner and go from there. Maybe you could scout through this list and find someone near you? http://www.jewettsix.org/registered-cars-and-owners/ I know of one car here in Christchurch that has been with the same family for over 50 years. My book of serial numbers says the car number would be found under the front seat - but that will be long gone. Some early chassis also had the number stamped on the left rear corner of the frame where it was usually hidden by the body. The engine number will be on the left side of the crankcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig Gillingham Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) Quote A 1922 Paige that I worked on years ago had the starter on the opposite side as the photo of the Jewett. So the starter was on the right on that car. On the left for the Jewett. Possibly that's to accommodate the steering box for right-hand drive. In the first photo of a Jewett engine I posted, the starter is on the right for a LHD car. That Jewett Six website is very interesting. Edited August 14, 2018 by Craig Gillingham (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 There's a '23 Jewett currently for sale at the Gosford Classic Car Musum. Photo show starter on left side of the engine for the RHD car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) Scroll down in the Vintage Drivers Club to the Jewett Parts Ad. At least 2 guys in Oz you can contact who have Jewetts. Edited August 14, 2018 by Ozstatman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I would like to be interested in that mess? But I cannot afford it (can't even afford the shipping) and I have reached the stage where I have enough projects to keep me busy for the rest of my life. Including the 1927 Paige sedan my dad bought in '67. Paige and Jewett have a excellent history, and deserve more recognition than they get. They were an assembled car, but better engineered than most. Harry Jewett was an engineer himself and insisted on high quality designs and components. Engines were usually Paige/Jewett exclusives, manufactured by different engine manufacturers to Paige's specifications. Locations of externals (manifolds, starter, generator, distributor, etc) varied from model to model. As for the Jewett six website. My understanding is that the fellow that maintained it for several years passed away a couple years ago. I don't know who is working on it now, but he seems to be trying to do a nice job. However, progress has been slow. I tried to contact him myself a year or two ago, but was unsuccessful and haven't tried to contact him since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozstatman Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Not directly related to this thread, but in Hemmings today is this little snippet: 8/14/1870: Harry Jewett born, Elmira, NewYork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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