A/C - 78 Estate Wagon

[dmfconsult]

My A/C on the Estate Wagon has been non-op since I bought the car (seized compressor clutch).  Looking at finally getting that repaired and it seems there are two types of correct replacement compressors, the only difference between the two are metric threads or standard threads.  How do I tell the difference for my car?  Is it a simple matter of checking the nuts on the compressor/line fittings to see if they are metric or standard?  Thanks in advance.

Edited August 2, 2018 by dmfconsult (see edit history)

[MrEarl]

Watching this as I will be replacing mine also. I also seem to have a leak in the heater radiator and will be replacing it at the same time.

Are you replacing the evaporator core and the full 9 yards or just the compressor

are you going to try and stay with the Delco for correctne$$

[JohnD1956]

Geeze, you two should have bought a northeast car.  The AC on my former wagon worked up to the day I sold it. 

 

Doug, If the clutch is the problem then that can be changed without changing the whole compressor.  How are you certain it's the clutch its self though?  Can't answer the question on the metric vs SAE thread issue.  But I would think it would be the hose hook up plus the mounting hardware together.  Although the mix of SAE and Metric in that era was a big pia.

[dmfconsult]

Mine is a NW car.. I guess the a/c just doesn't get used enough around here! 

 

The clutch is seized for sure (the screeching fan belt noise is forever etched in my memory), but the a/c was non operational when I got the car, so can't tell if anything else is wrong.  I did put the fan belt on after I owned it to test the system, but was quickly spurned by the aforementioned screeching!   The system looks pretty complete otherwise, so I suspect it ran itself out of refrigerant at some point.   I  was aware the clutch was replaceable (with special tools) but I recall being told once they seized replacement of the compressor and a few other parts was necessary as contaminants may be spread through the system. 

 

I'll do a bit more investigative work on what's required and see if I can find someone trustworthy to take the car to get some advice.  Last a/c specialist I took the Electra too told me I needed $2000 in repairs to that system, and it was still working!

 

I'll keep this thread updated on what I find out.

 

 

[dmfconsult]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:42 AM, MrEarl said:

Are you replacing the evaporator core and the full 9 yards or just the compressor

are you going to try and stay with the Delco for correctne$$

Was planning on replacing Evaporator, Compressor and Condensor as well as a few other minor things.  I was going to stick with the same "type" to keep the look and just move over the old Frigidaire sticker to the newer compressor and paint it black like the old one if need be.  There is a kit available at Napa that includes the Condensor and the evaporator, but not the Condensor.  The kit actually doesn't look too expensive:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ACBTEM60910R

You'll note though that the compressor in this kit has "metric threads".  I'll be at the wagon tonight, so I'll take some wrenches and see if I can figure out this metric thing.  I agree with JD, the mix of metric and standard on these cars is so frustrating!    I figure I'll be in for about $500 in parts to make the full repair based on what I think I know.  If only the clutch has to be replaced, then I'll be a happy camper!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

8 minutes ago, dmfconsult said:

Mine is a NW car.. I guess the a/c just doesn't get used enough around here! 

 

The clutch is seized for sure (the screeching fan belt noise is forever etched in my memory), but the a/c was non operational when I got the car, so can't tell if anything else is wrong.  I did put the fan belt on after I owned it to test the system, but was quickly spurned by the aforementioned screeching!   The system looks pretty complete otherwise, so I suspect it ran itself out of refrigerant at some point.   I  was aware the clutch was replaceable (with special tools) but I recall being told once they seized replacement of the compressor and a few other parts was necessary as contaminants may be spread through the system. 

 

I'll do a bit more investigative work on what's required and see if I can find someone trustworthy to take the car to get some advice.  Last a/c specialist I took the Electra too told me I needed $2000 in repairs to that system, and it was still working!

 

I'll keep this thread updated on what I find out.

 

 

 

 Ah, the specialist!  One noted one informed me it would take $5000.00 to get A/C in my '50.  He was only about $3500.00 -$4000.00 off!  

  A/C is not complicated. The controls are. Chances are, very little is wrong. 

 

  Ben









 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dmfconsult]

Thanks Ben.  The key is finding someone I can trust that can give me the correct information.  You can't get R12 in Canada so will have to change over to R134A anyway, just hope a couple of shops I have dealt with before (and trust) can do it.    I have a good lead on a shop in Washington State thanks to Mr. Laurance here on the board, but I'll see if I can get the wagon done here, and perhaps get the Electra recharged with R12 down there. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Well, Doug, I would not even try for 12.  Go 134. I have done so for years.

 

  Ben

[Frank DuVal]

Why? R12 still available on eBay for not much more than R134. Do shop around, as some is twice as much.

[dmfconsult]

Not in Canada my friend, you can’t bring it across border and none of the shops will deal with it. 

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

6 hours ago, dmfconsult said:

Not in Canada my friend, you can’t bring it across border and none of the shops will deal with it. 

 

 DAY TRIP.

 

  Ben

[Barney Eaton]

If you start by putting a vacuum pump on the system as is, you will quickly see if you have problems.    If it holds vacuum then the components may be in good condition and all you need to do is change the clutch or the complete compressor.  They do recommend that if you are opening the system then go ahead and replace the accumulator/dryer.

 

Do a search and you will find some post by Willie Pittman........he has run his 1956 Century on the cans of dry air you can buy at Walmart....these are the cans of compressed air to blow off you keyboard and other electrical items.

You need to find the post because he tell what propellant to look for in the cans.      I think I would replace the clutch and try the cheap cans of propellant.     You can also do an internet search and there will be several videos of people charging their a/c this way.

[dmfconsult]

3 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 DAY TRIP.

 

  Ben

That is definitely plan B! 

 

Barney, I think I know what your are referring to.  I'll have to do the initial testing first though as you suggest as I don't have direct knowledge on why the previous owner had already removed the belt for the compressor.  I think it has been non operational for a very long time. 

[old-tank]

On 8/6/2018 at 3:25 PM, dmfconsult said:

Was planning on replacing Evaporator, Compressor and Condensor as well as a few other minor things.  I was going to stick with the same "type" to keep the look and just move over the old Frigidaire sticker to the newer compressor and paint it black like the old one if need be.  There is a kit available at Napa that includes the Condensor and the evaporator, but not the Condensor.  The kit actually doesn't look too expensive:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ACBTEM60910R

You'll note though that the compressor in this kit has "metric threads".  I'll be at the wagon tonight, so I'll take some wrenches and see if I can figure out this metric thing.  I agree with JD, the mix of metric and standard on these cars is so frustrating!    I figure I'll be in for about $500 in parts to make the full repair based on what I think I know.  If only the clutch has to be replaced, then I'll be a happy camper!

You might get lucky with that rebuilt compressor from NAPA, but good rebuildable cores are scarce:  I bought a rebuilt compressor from Advance Auto last year for my 76 Olds and after changing out 3 defective ones Advance Auto was out of the rebuilt units and supplied THIS at no additional cost (I would have been ahead if I had bought it in the first place...lots of exercise and refrigerant/oil expense ).

[MrEarl]

Thanks Willie. Definitely worth considering. I take it you did all the install and reinstalls your self? I see you in their Q&A section  In searching for one for our Buick Estate Wagons I see they are a few bucks less at $346 and $50 of if you purchase on line. Also see that it has metric fittings. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/toughone-new-gm-a6-compressor-w-clutch-t58096/20892285-P?searchTerm=A%2FC+Compressor+Job%2FKit

 

[dmfconsult]

I think that's still the big question for me, metric or standard threads.  There seems to be quite a bit of choice for new and reman A6 compressors and I agree with the advice that new is the way to go. 

 

I checked my existing compressor and lines and at least every bolt requires is a standard fitment, so I'm still at a loss.   

[old-tank]

2 hours ago, MrEarl said:

Thanks Willie. Definitely worth considering. I take it you did all the install and reinstalls your self? I see you in their Q&A section  In searching for one for our Buick Estate Wagons I see they are a few bucks less at $346 and $50 of if you purchase on line. Also see that it has metric fittings. https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/toughone-new-gm-a6-compressor-w-clutch-t58096/20892285-P?searchTerm=A%2FC+Compressor+Job%2FKit

 

Did all installs myself.  Metric is no big deal if you make note of the lengths you need for various fittings and then have the counter person put it on a cart and fit the metric ones to the compressor...if shipped to you do the same.

Best deal with Advance Auto is to put it in your online cart and leave it.  If they have your email they will come back with 20% off; then 25% off and maybe even 30% off.

[MrEarl]

Doug, is this what your compressor looks like? 

 

 

[dmfconsult]

Lamar, yours appears to be the newer version.  Mine is the old style Frigidaire A6 compressor, see attached photo.   It would be interesting to know if yours is original to the car.  If it is, that gives me some additional options to remain correct looking.  Although you have the 403 so maybe there is not enough room for the A6. 

[MrEarl]

9 minutes ago, dmfconsult said:

Although you have the 403 so maybe there is not enough room for the A6.  

 

That's my thinking. I need to look through all the receipts from the first owner again but do not recall seeing one for anything ac related. It looks to be original. Here is what comes up when I plug in 1979 Buick Estate Wagon ac compressor at Rock Auto

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/buick,1979,estate+wagon,6.6l+403cid+v8,1017694,heat+&+air+conditioning,a/c+compressor,6628

 

and the one I would consider

 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1309546&cc=1017694&jsn=413

 

but it too has metric connections

 

 

[dmfconsult]

I guess I would need to change the brackets out if I went with the R4 type but I like the fact there are AC Delco variants available.   I don’t know if it’s related to the 403/350 difference, manufacturing plant, or a switch over in compressor type from 78 to 79 but it’s good to have options!

[MrEarl]

 

 

 

On 8/9/2018 at 11:23 PM, dmfconsult said:

I guess I would need to change the brackets out if I went with the R4 type but I like the fact there are AC Delco variants available.   I don’t know if it’s related to the 403/350 difference, manufacturing plant, or a switch over in compressor type from 78 to 79 but it’s good to have options!

 

 

Just curious where you ended up with this. I need to get humping on getting mine done.

[60FlatTop]

Three years ago the AC compressor on my '94 Impala SS froze up. I got a price from a good shop to repair and replace for $750 with a new drier and the typical routine. I decided to cheap out and spent a couple hundred bucks.

I have a seal rebuild kit for the new compressor and hope to get to it this spring. I wanted to sell the car last year, but needed the AC working.

 

We get about 2 weeks of AC weather around here. The priority gets pushed way back on those jobs. I see this started August 1st.

 

Last summer someone ran a bicycle pedal along the passenger side doors so I need to pant them now. I painted the rear spoiler the summer before last. I hope it doesn't get scratched before I get the AC working.

 

Life among the home mechanics is not always easy.

Bernie

[NTX5467]

As for "Metric" or "SAE" attachments, that should be easy to tell by looking at the bolt heads.  SAE had "lines" denoting hardness.  Metric has a metric number (as "10.8" denoting hardness).  Initially, all metric bolts on the '77+ B-platform cars were also colored, rather than the normal black.

 

I somewhat doubt if anybody would have gone to the trouble to replace an R-4 compressor with an A-6 compressor or vice versa.  MORE than just the compressor will be different, but ALL hoses and related connectors will be different too.  Plus any mounting brackets and such.  

 

The later-style R-4s will be larger in physical diameter.  Larger displacement to work better with R-134a gas.  ALL mounting bolt locations are the same as for the earlier (small) R-4s.

 

Using a R-134a Freon recycling machine to evacuate a R-12 system will result in the machine becoming contaminated (by the R-12), which will mean (at the least) that a new "full" cannister of R-134a will need to be purchased for future use of that particular machine.  R-12 machine for R-12 only.  R-134a machine for F-134a only.  Certainly, there are other (prior) ways of evacuating and charging the system, but the legality of it can vary with your location.

 

R-12 was/is still being produced/used in other parts of the world.  NO automotive uses, though.  Some reports of the Mexican items corroding a/c systems it was put into, a while back.  Not sure if that's true or otherwise.  It used to be an equally severe penalty of importing R-12 into the USA as it was for importing an assault rifle into the country, back when THAT ban was in place.

 

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[old-tank]

If you need to use an A-6 compressor go with the new aluminum reproductions.  I tried 3 rebuilt units from Advance Auto that were unsatisfactory before they substituted a new  reproduction.  Still no pay for the lost refrigerant, oil and time!  There are very few cores out there suitable for rebuild.

[dmfconsult]

On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2019 at 5:26 AM, MrEarl said:

Just curious where you ended up with this. I need to get humping on getting mine done.

 

Well, I'm about where I was a few months ago!  I have found a local shop that I know, and they will do the work, but due to my mother-in-law passing unexpectedly recently and being very busy at work, I haven't had the time to get the car down to him.  The plan is to bring the car over, decide what parts are required, and then I'll obtain the parts from south of the border.  In Canada, the parts are either unavailable or double the price, so even with the crappy exchange rate right now, I'll be saving some $$.  The Ferndale, WA NAPA is only about a 40min drive from my place. 

 

The "Polar Vortex" that blanketed the mid west and east coast a few weeks ago has moved west and forced me to dust off the snow shovel I was hoping not to see this winter.  So far have move a foot of snow, and there is more in the forecast this week.  While I do have chains for the Estate Wagon, I think it will just have to stay where it is for a few more weeks!

 

12 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

As for "Metric" or "SAE" attachments, that should be easy to tell by looking at the bolt heads.  SAE had "lines" denoting hardness.  Metric has a metric number (as "10.8" denoting hardness).  Initially, all metric bolts on the '77+ B-platform cars were also colored, rather than the normal black.

Thanks for the heads up on this.  All the bolts around the compressor fit a SAE socket, but I do not recall if they had the lines or not.  I also seem to have a vague recollection of some of the bolts being colored, but I could be remembering bolts from other parts of the car.  I'll double check all before ordering anything. 

 

3 hours ago, old-tank said:

If you need to use an A-6 compressor go with the new aluminum reproductions.  I tried 3 rebuilt units from Advance Auto that were unsatisfactory before they substituted a new  reproduction.  Still no pay for the lost refrigerant, oil and time!  There are very few cores out there suitable for rebuild.

Good advise on the new compressor, and I was already leaning that way.  I'll just paint it black so it has a more correct look.  I'll also try and recover the old sticker from the A-6, but I don't recall a flat area to place it on the aluminum ones. 

 

Thank you Gentlemen!

[dmfconsult]

Finally decided to pay the freight and get the AC in this car fixed. Purchased a refurbished A6 compressor from Napa (with standard threads) new condenser, accumulator and other small parts and brought it in. I realize some of these refurbished compressors have a bad rap but wanted to give it a try to retain the original look under the hood.  
 

Many $$$ later I’ve got the car back with cold air... my wife actually likes riding in the wagon now. I’ve owned the car 10 years and the compressor was bad when I got it, so no telling how long it’s been non-op. System was pressure checked and it’s holding pressure do previous leaks must have been in either the compressor or the condenser. 
 

@MrEarl it’s a good thing you passed on this car for your tow rig... with the AC working there is a noticeable change in power output for the 350.  I wouldn’t want to be a towing anything on a hot day!

 

I’ve never had the switches in this configuration!

Edited July 31, 2020 by dmfconsult (see edit history)

[old-tank]

10 hours ago, dmfconsult said:

these refurbished compressors have a bad rap

If you got one that is quiet and working well now, it will give many years of service.  The problem is that there is a shortage of rebuildable cores.  I went through 4 rebuilt units from Advance Auto and none were good.  They had no more available so there is an aluminum reproduction giving good service now.

[dmfconsult]

I'm resolved that if this one goes bad, I will upgrade to the new aluminum version and simply paint it black.  The EW may be a "new" car by some standards here, but it is an Archival award winner, so I try and keep it in original condition.

[dmfconsult]

7 hours ago, old-tank said:

If you got one that is quiet and working well now, it will give many years of service.  The problem is that there is a shortage of rebuildable cores.  I went through 4 rebuilt units from Advance Auto and none were good.  They had no more available so there is an aluminum reproduction giving good service now.

 Out of curiosity, how long was it before you noticed your rebuilt compressors were failing?

[JohnD1956]

Mine went within a year. The "new" A6 I got for the GS, in 2009, lasted 9 years before the front seal leaked. The disappointment being it was sparingly used in that 9 years. 

[dmfconsult]

Thanks John, I'll keep an eye on it.  I have read that lack of use does precipitate early failures/leaks, so I guess that is just my excuse for driving it more often!

[old-tank]

5 hours ago, dmfconsult said:

 Out of curiosity, how long was it before you noticed your rebuilt compressors were failing?

During the first attempt to charge.

[dmfconsult]

😂 well I passed that hurdle!

[MrEarl]

On 7/31/2020 at 12:20 AM, dmfconsult said:

 

 

I’ve never had the switches in this configuration!

 
tis a wonderful sight, I can attest to 👍😊
 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[dmfconsult]

Well, the last bit of my A/C repair arrived over the weekend!  the rebuilt compressor did not have the original sticker on it and the the sticker from the old one would not come off in one piece.  Thankfully, this sticker is reproduced for the camaro/firebird crowd so I could get one to replicate the look.  Just have to print the "code no." from my previous compressor (on a clear label) and apply.