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1954 Chevy Bel air. An impossible restoration?


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I just bought a total piece of rusty junk.   The the entire chassis is pretty much gone.  Rotted completely into nothing.   The car was original green with a white top.  The brown you see is total rust.  The kind of rust that when you run your hand over it large grains of rust fall off like sand.

 

I just bought this car for the extreme price of $200.   Even the people who sold it too me were joking that they should be paying me $200 to haul it a way.  It took me the better part of the day to get it on my trailer, because the front A-Frames were totally gone and there was nothing holding up the front of the car.   I actually used a floor jack to hold the front end up long enough to get it on the trailer.   There was a main frame member in the front that was still strong enough to jack on.

 

So here's the pros and cons:

 

You might not thing there are any pros to this car but here's what I see as pros,...

 

1. This car was totally untouched for the past 25 years since it was parked in the spot in the photo. 

 

Why is this a pro?  Well, it's 100% complete in terms of parts.   The motor is 100% there and untouched.   Even the battery was still it it!

 

2. It has all the glass with no breakage or cracks save for cracks in the vent windows. 

 

3. The windows still actually roll up and down.

 

4. The dashboard doesn't look too bad.

 

5. All of the interior is in it.   Obviously it would all need to be replaced, but at least all the frames for the seats are there, as well as the door panels.

 

6. It's a 3- speed manual transmission.  (for me that's a bit plus over an old automatic)  I prefer a manual shift anyway, but it's also far easier to repair and will probably be just fine actually.  Of course the clutch and pressure plate would need replaced, but that's no biggie.

 

The Cons:

 

Do I need to even mention them?   It's just extremely rusty.   And the chassis would need to be totally re-fabricated either from scratch, or by modifying a newer chassis from some other vehicle.  If I decide to restore this car I'll most likely go with the latter.  I just find an old frame that's somewhat close and re-fabricate that to fit.

 

Questions:

 

Has anyone restored anything in this bad of shape?

 

As rusty as the panels are they still seem to be pretty solid.  I was whacking them with a big heavy hammer and they won't even dent.  So it appears there's enough meat left to restore.  

 

I figure for $200 I could no doubt get my money back just parting it out.  But now that I have the car home I've actually been toying with the idea of trying to restore it.

 

Whadda think?   Should I try to restore it, or just part out?

 

I'm thinking too, that if I part it out I might be able to make enough money to purchase a better starter car? 

 

I haven't started the engine yet, but I'll bet it'll run.   It's all there.

 

I might be able to get fair bucks for the motor, tranny, rear axle, etc.   Especially if I can sell the motor as "running".

 

How much do you think I could get for this junk?

 

If I can squeak close to a grand parting it out, I could probably find a better starter project for the grand huh?

 

All comments are welcome.   For $200 it's just a fun experiment.  I could probably recover the $200 just taking the metal to the scrap yard.   Surely I'd get more parting it out?

 

I'll definitely keep the motor, tranny, and rear axle.  I'm not taking those to the scrap yard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chevy 1.jpg

Chevy 3.jpg

Chevy 4.jpg

Chevy 2.jpg

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 I think it will eat a lot of money just to get it to start, run and stop safely, and you still did not touch any of the sheetmetal. As an owner of a 50 and a 53 the four doors are really not that desirable. If you really want one I would find a solid one and use the one in the photos as a parts car. I myself would not get involved with trying to restore it, or even just fixing it up.

There is always a demand for parts,  but from what I found it is a limited demand for these cars in the four door version. There are plenty of examples that can be had for a relatively low price in the Chevrolet world. There are always guys looking for the 235 six's to install inte early six cylinder cars but how much they are willing to pay is another story, plus shipping......

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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As car people, we tend to want to save everything...but we eventually find out that we shouldn't save everything.  That's why walking around an old junkyard is so interesting but so sad.  Like John said, it's a good parts car for a more solid example if you like the car.  You can use the parts you need and pass on the rest to someone else who might use them.  At $200, you can't lose.  

Edited by Aaron65 (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, John348 said:

If you really want one I would find a solid one and use the one in the photos as a parts car.

 

That's certainly something I thought about when I bought it.   Sometimes I see fairly nice cars that have all the glass broken out.  So at least I have all the replacement glass.   And sometimes I see one with no motor or tranny.  So now I've got that too.

 

Like Aaron says, for $200 I can't lose. 

 

 

But yeah,  John, I'd probably do well to at least find another one that has a better body and frame.    One with no glass, motor, tranny or interior would work.  Just a roller with a good frame and body.  Then between the two of them I could have something worth restoring maybe.   I just hang onto it for now.

 

I wonder if this windshield and rear window would fit a 2-door body?  I know the door windows wouldn't.

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Craftsman, I really hate to be a "downer" but I think the car shown won't be worth the money and time to restore it. It's not a desirable year and it's a four door. Cars of this vintage can be had for less than you will need to get this car presentable. Even parting it out won't make you rich. Don't get your hopes up on the engine running, they parked it for a reason and if it hasn't run in 25 years it may be seized. I would pass if it was me. As Terry suggests, yard art.

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The windows appear to be tinted. That's a plus. The windows alone should get your $200 back. Did you get any of the exterior Belair trim? Any interesting accessories that are not seen in  the photos?

 

Don

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I have a 57 Chevy in much the same condition. I bought it because the better hard top, circle track car I have received a hard hit on the passenger side cowl - door post area. The sedan firewall and cowl are quite decent and will be used on the hard top. I have found the salvageable  4 door parts are nearly valueless. Glass , bits of trim etc. And 57's are quite a bit more popular than 54's.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)
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Being a 4dr kills it. As far as condition I would like to get ones in that good of shape but they must be what others WANT. It takes just as much time and money to grind rust on a 54 Chevy 4dr as it does on a 32 Pierce Arrow. Pictures are before and after of a 54 Olds 98 Starfire Convertible which makes your 54 look cherry but then the Oldsmobile Club of America shows only eleven left in existence---big difference.  The 55k it brought at sale did not cover the the resto cost.

 

 

Bug Tussle 006.jpg

Bug Tussle 002.jpg

Finished 54 Olds 004.jpg

Finished 54 Olds 005.jpg

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When I purchased my '54 back in 1987 I videotaped the walk-around with my daughter - then 5 years old - behind and below me.  We have on tape for historical and laughing purposes my analysis of the car -  "Oh, that top just needs a bit of stretching".  "Look at the interior - it's all there", etc. etc.   The car was in rough shape, but solid.  The plus was it's a convertible.  25 years later, the car is pretty sweet.  But.... it was nowhere near the condition of yours......nowhere.

I'm reading your post and can feel your enthusiasm.  The good news is you can haul it on that same trailer and double your money by scrapping it.  The bad news - it's a 4 door and it costs (as was pointed out) just as much to restore one as a convertible.  

Play with it for awhile but don't drop a dime into it.  Check out e-bay and see how much the glass might bring, along with some of the other parts.  You might sell some of them and then scrap it.  

You are about  to go deep into a hole where money just gets thrown away.  See if you can turn your $200 into $600 and walk away.

Telling you this with love in my heart.  I suspect you're young and most of us wish we still had your wide-eye excitement for life.  Keep the pictures and your post and find the right one to restore - many are out there. 

Edited by AJFord54 (see edit history)
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49 minutes ago, mcdarrunt said:

Pictures are before and after of a 54 Olds 98 Starfire Convertible which makes your 54 look cherry but then the Oldsmobile Club of America shows only eleven left in existence---big difference.  The 55k it brought at sale did not cover the the resto cost.

 

 

Yep, that car looks at least as bad if not worse when you started on it.   Fantastic finish in the end by the way!

 

I have no intention of going into that kind of detail.   I'm not having anything chromed.  It's going to be silver paint for bumpers, etc.  A seriously "cheapo resto',  if I decide to go that route at all.   I probably won't.   Only time will tell what I'll do here.  Parting it out and starting with a better base project car is the most likely scenario actually.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 46 woodie said:

Craftsman, I really hate to be a "downer" but I think the car shown won't be worth the money and time to restore it. It's not a desirable year and it's a four door. Cars of this vintage can be had for less than you will need to get this car presentable. Even parting it out won't make you rich. Don't get your hopes up on the engine running, they parked it for a reason and if it hasn't run in 25 years it may be seized. I would pass if it was me. As Terry suggests, yard art.

 

They parked it because the gas tank leaked.

 

And the owner told me that they actually did start it up about 10 years ago and it actually ran.  They were surprised that it would still run after having sat for 15 years.   They didn't try to drive it or anything.  They just wanted to see if it would still run and it did.   But even that was 10 years  ago.

 

I was afraid that the oil might be nothing more than a dried out piece of cake in the oil paint.  But I just pulled the stick out and it actually still has liquid oil in it.    I was thinking of draining the oil and putting new oil in it before I tried to start it.  But I'm not sure if I even want to bother throwing that much money at it yet.   What I might do is change the oil in my pick up, and then put the "Fresh" old oil from the pick up in it.  (ha ha)

 

If it starts and actually runs then I'd change the oil for real.   But I don't know if it even turns.  Like you say it might be seized up.  I'm not expecting too much.  But I know these old engines are basically "Tractor engines".  And I've seen old tractors start up and run that you'd never think would ever run again.

 

I'll post what happens with the engine.  But right now I don't even have the time to mess around with it.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DLynskey said:

The windows appear to be tinted. That's a plus. The windows alone should get your $200 back. Did you get any of the exterior Belair trim? Any interesting accessories that are not seen in  the photos?

 

Don

 

Yes the car is filled with the exterior trim parts.    I actually bought this from a lady, and she was going to "restore it" (probably some 20 years ago).  So she took off all the trim and placed it neatly into boxes.   So it's all there.   But I guess that's as far as she got with it.   There are also some extra parts.   An extra starter motor, distributor.   A few old hubcaps, that didn't come off this car.   The car only has three hubcaps and all four wheel rim trims.  She was probably grabbing hubcaps from other cars she found in an effort to try to recover the fourth hubcap.  (hee hee)

 

So yeah, all the trim is there (or at least most of it).  I didn't really have time to go through it to see what all is there.

 

Oh yeah, it has a nice looking spare wheel in the truck.  With a "brand new" tire on it.  Well, a brand new 25-year-old dry-rotted tire anyway.   What a waste of a good tire.

 

But it just goes to show that nothing was taken out of this car.  Not even the spare tire or battery.   It was just as it was parked evidently.

 

But yeah, lot's of trim parts with it.

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3 minutes ago, capngrog said:

AntiqueCraftsman;

 

How is your 1947 Chevy Fleetline project coming?   Have you gotten her on the road yet?

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

Not on the road yet, but I did get her started.  She runs GREAT!   Started right up and idles smooth.   I also moved it forward and reverse just to check that the clutch and drive train are working and that went very well too.  No brakes yet.    A brand new brake system came with the car and I haven't installed it yet.   

 

 

I

 

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3 minutes ago, AntiqueCraftsman said:

 

Not on the road yet, but I did get her started.  She runs GREAT!   Started right up and idles smooth.   I also moved it forward and reverse just to check that the clutch and drive train are working and that went very well too.  No brakes yet.    A brand new brake system came with the car and I haven't installed it yet.   

 

Have you thought about installing the '54 engine and drive train into the '47?   I'm not sure, but I think that swap would be a direct bolt-in.  I'll bet that someone following this thread knows for sure whether or not that swap would be a direct bolt-in project.

 

As you pointed out in your first post,  you can't go wrong for just $200 for the '54.  I'll bet you've already had $200 bucks worth of fun just poking around in it.

 

Cheers,

Grog

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Here is my similar story, when I bought a rusty shell of a car.

Years ago we found an orange grove near Arcadia Florida with a 40 Ford Coupe in condition like your 54 Chevy, except no engine, transmission, seat or floor.  Bought it an some porcelain signs and headed home with it thinking the body shell, which was intact, could be used for a vintage stock car.

That was popular at the time and I knew several guys doing it.

I put an ad in the local (FL) Auto Trader for this 1940 Ford Coupe body and described it as usable only for a vintage stock car body skin.  $400.  Sold very quickly and was almost forgotten when Auto Trader came out with a national publication called the Antique Auto Trader Book.  Because they didn't have enough fresh ads to fill their publication they used old ads in the first issue, including mine.

I started getting calls from all over the country.  I would tell them it was sold to the first guy who called, which satisfied most callers.  However one guy from Denver wanted to know all about it (Remember the early Auto Traders used a single black & white picture)   He wanted to know every detail about how good a car it was.  I took some liberty and knowing he really didn't read the whole ad, I answered,  "no it was not in real good shape, paint was oxidized, bumpers were kind of rusty, upholstery was ripped and it smoked pretty bad and I was embarrassed to drive it anywhere.

He said, "damn, I knew I should have called when I first saw it".

At least he has a good "The one that got away story".

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21 minutes ago, capngrog said:

 

Have you thought about installing the '54 engine and drive train into the '47?   I'm not sure, but I think that swap would be a direct bolt-in.  I'll bet that someone following this thread knows for sure whether or not that swap would be a direct bolt-in project.

 

As you pointed out in your first post,  you can't go wrong for just $200 for the '54.  I'll bet you've already had $200 bucks worth of fun just poking around in it.

 

Cheers,

Grog

 

I never even gave that a thought.  I was figuring they are too far apart in years.   In any case, the engine in the '47 is in superb condition.  It looks to be in far better shape than the engine in the '54. 

 

Buy yeah, I never gave a thought to those parts potentially being interchangeable.    If that 3-speed manual transmission is the same as the '47, I'll definitely want to hang onto that.   The rear actually sure look quite similar too just at a glance.   So yeah if these parts will fit the '47 I'll definitely hang onto them.  The engines certainly look the same too.  They both have a glass-bowl fuel pump in exactly the same place.   So yeah that would be nice if that's basically the same engine to.

 

I never even thought of a '54 being interchangeable with a '47.  But yeah, at first glance the engine and rear axle sure look similar.

 

My '47 Fleetline is in immaculate condition in comparison.     I just grabbed this '54 because it was so cheap!

 

They tricked me too!   They first posted it for $500 and then changed the post to $200 a few days later.  That's when I called and said, "I'll take it!"  I knew I could get $200 back just in scrap metal.  So nothing to lose there.

 

I'm looking at a 1956 Buick Super 2-dr that looks to be in pretty nice shape.  They were asking $1000 for it, but I think he'll come down to $500.   The problem is that I don't have $500 right now. (ha ha).   If I did I'd probably by that Buick Super.    It actually looks to be in pretty good shape.  At least it's standing up on all four wheels.

 

 

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Best resource for interchange is the factory parts book. However it won't tell you if something like an engine; which may vary from year to year in small details, will interchange from year to year as a complete assembly.  A 47 Chevy is a whole design generation away from a 1954, { two if you count the 1949-1952 cars being different from 1953-54} I would not expect much interchange other than basic powertrain items.

 

Greg in Canada

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Hi Jim ! Nice to see you back with us ! Glad things look promising on the '47 ! Please use your efforts on THAT car, it will keep you busy enough, and be more expensive than you would have liked anyway. Let's just do some cheap and easy no brainer "pickling" on your recently acquired parts.

 

On the "new" Chevrolet,  pull the spark plugs and put 3 or 4 ounces of ATF in each cylinder, peplace plugs. Lubricate ALL valve train components, top and side, replace covers. Drain out the old oil and sludge from the engine and replace with 2 gallons of kerosene, diesel or jet fuel, or heating oil, whichever is cheapest and easiest for you. Plug all possible mouse access, exhaust and intake. Now leave the engine be for months, or more. Drain the oil from Trans and diff, and fill as high as possible with kerosene, etc. Leave these alone too, if the kerosene is not slowly just leaking out. If, it does finally leak out, you will want to flush with another kerosene fill and quickly drain. After leaving open until the last drop of kerosene drips out (2 months ?), put 140 hypoid in the rear to proper level, 90 NON HYPOID gear oil in the Trans. (I don't know why spell check keeps capitalizing trans, but I am afraid to ask - shudder). Go around the car with your oil squirt can, and hit everything necessary. Protect the trim, spares, etc, as best as is practical.

 

O.K. Now put your precious and limited time and loot into that '47. You keep hankering after other hulks, and 5 years from now you will wish you had kept focused. Never met anyone who didn't regret being diverted from primary projects by lost causes and pies they found floating around in the sky. There is absolutely nothing positive about regrets, other than to keep you from having more of the same.

 

                Good luck, Jim. I wish I lived near you. I love your enthusiasm and energy. Enjoy that while you are still able !  -  Carl 

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38 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said:

 

Years ago we found an orange grove near Arcadia Florida .....................

 

Hmmmm......................  De Soto County. Was that WAY back in the days of Sheriff Frank Kline ?   -  Carl 

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24 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Best resource for interchange is the factory parts book. However it won't tell you if something like an engine; which may vary from year to year in small details, will interchange from year to year as a complete assembly.  A 47 Chevy is a whole design generation away from a 1954, { two if you count the 1949-1952 cars being different from 1953-54} I would not expect much interchange other than basic powertrain items.

 

Greg in Canada

 

it pretty much bolts in and is a common swap because the 235's have full pressure oiling.

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3 minutes ago, C Carl said:

O.K. Now put your precious and limited time and loot into that '47. You keep hankering after other hulks, and 5 years from now you will wish you had kept focused. Never met anyone who didn't regret being diverted from primary projects by lost causes and pies they found floating around in the sky. There is absolutely nothing positive about regrets, other than to keep you from having more of the same. 

 

This has always been a problem for me.  I'm so easily distracted.

 

And I'm totally in agreement with you actually.   The whole time I was driving down to get the 54' Chevy I kept saying to myself,  "You IDIOT!  You could be putting this time and money into the '47 Chevy which is actually an IMMACULATE starter project!"

 

Then I would argue with myself saying, "Don't worry about it for $200 you're making money!". 

 

Well, I confess that the car turned out to be in far worse shaped that I had originally hoped.  I was hoping that at least it still had a frame under it.  But it was not to be.

 

I still think I can recover the $200, but it turned out not to be such a great deal after all.

 

The '47 Chevy is coming along very nice.   I have material all over my woodshop where I'm doing the reupholstering on the '47.   I'm doing a really cheap and DIY reupholstering job.  I'm just using canvas and Naugahyde.   But it's coming along pretty well.  It will look nice I think.    I could have been sewing that stuff up instead of spending a WHOLE DAY to buy this rust bucket. 

 

I'm not really sorry I did it.   But you're right.  I'm not focused!  That's my hallmark.    I always end up with too many pokers in the fire.  That just who I am.  A totally undisciplined idiot, like a kid in a candy store.   Yep, that's me.

 

 

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I just went out and looked at these engines.  They sure look pretty close to being the same.   Hey, at least I'll have a second 6 volt generator for my '47 Fleetline now.

Surely some of these parts will fit in a pinch.    So maybe I did the right thing grabbing this '54 after all.   Never hurts to have extra parts laying around.  The fuel pump looks identical too.  It has the glass bowel on the top too.   These engines really do look extremely similar.   And if the transmission and rear axle are interchangeable that's a plus too.

 

So I don't think I went too far wrong.

 

I wonder if these wheels will fit too?   It'd be nice to have extra wheels for the '47.  

 

Extra parts are always welcome here. ?

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Me too, Jim. That is why I recognize the syndrome, and speak with such authority ! ? Sadly,  I am sure there are more here among us. The fortunate organized and disciplined guys and gals are the real geniuses. They are the productive ones that actually finish so many things. The modern means by which genius is recognized and measured is indeed PRODUCTIVITY. Makes sense to me.   -  Carl 

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You just got a real good deal on a parts car. Many of the parts will fit your 47. I think the 54 has the modernized engine with full pressure oiling and insert bearings. Also I believe the rear axle will interchange with the 47 and has a more hiway friendly gear ratio. If you get tired of tooling around at 50 MPH you could put in the better engine and gears and hit the interstates for a change.

 

The 54 has better brakes and lower suspension, these parts will fit your 47. The 54 was the last of a series of Chevs that had a lot in common under the skin back to the early forties. 55 up have quite different front and rear suspension, drive train etc. although they did carry over the 6 cyl engine.

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I am pretty sure the Forum has a No Project Left Behind Act in place. Its not stated, but I have seen it strongly implied.

 

I would like to compliment you for pulling it out of the ground before it sunk in further. Kudos.

Bernie

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22 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

You just got a real good deal on a parts car. Many of the parts will fit your 47. I think the 54 has the modernized engine with full pressure oiling and insert bearings. Also I believe the rear axle will interchange with the 47 and has a more hiway friendly gear ratio. If you get tired of tooling around at 50 MPH you could put in the better engine and gears and hit the interstates for a change.

 

The 54 has better brakes and lower suspension, these parts will fit your 47. The 54 was the last of a series of Chevs that had a lot in common under the skin back to the early forties. 55 up have quite different front and rear suspension, drive train etc. although they did carry over the 6 cyl engine.

 

Oh goodie!

 

This might turn out to be the best spent $200 I've spent this year.   I didn't even realize this when I bought it.  So I guess I really lucked out.

 

Now that I know the parts are likely to be usable on the '47 I'm definitely looking at it as a "parts car" now.

 

 

 

 

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That car is readily restorable. Find a good frame. Find all the sheet metal. Maybe $10K for all the mechanicals. Have all the chrome done for maybe $10K. $10K for Misc.  Another $10K for the paint. Course it would be lucky to fetch $20K on a good day......................Bob

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I believe the only part you really need to interchange on the 54 engine to put it in your 47 is the Water pump.  They are even sold on ebay and I'm sure elsewhere like chevys of the 40's?  The different is the length of the shaft.  With the rear gears,  I think only the powerglide cars had the friendly ratio.  Standard din't as far as I've been told.  You can drop out the whole center section and put it in your car keeping it properly set up.  I have one I took out of a PG car just in case I get another early chevy.  I'm not sue if the whole rearend will work though as you have the torque tube issue. 

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39 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

That car is readily restorable. Find a good frame. Find all the sheet metal. Maybe $10K for all the mechanicals. Have all the chrome done for maybe $10K. $10K for Misc.  Another $10K for the paint. Course it would be lucky to fetch $20K on a good day......................Bob

 

You obviously don't understand how I work at my shop.

 

$400.00  - Chassis complete with motor, transmission, and drive train (from a 1990 Ford Ranger I bought a while back for $400).  The truck runs fine too.

$100.00 - Welding supplies to modify the frame to fit the '54 Chevy body.

$100.00 - Used sheet metal to repair the '54 Chevy body.

$90.00 - Three gallons of Majic Equipment paint from Tractor Supply.  1gal Primer, 2-gallons of color for nice two-tone paint job.   $30 a gal.

$200.00 - Material to sew up a new interior.

$25.00 - Rustoleum Chrome paint to emulate the $10k Chrome job.

$400.00 - 4 new cheap tires.

$185.00 - new brake shoes, brake lines, cylinder rebuild kits, etc.

 

TOTAL $1,500.00

 

And here's the finished product:

 

41104970-822-1954-Chevrolet-Bel-Air.jpg

 

 

Oh wait.  I forgot to add,....

 

$998,648,237,110,694.00 - labor.

 

But hey, only $1,500 in parts.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, AntiqueCraftsman said:

 

You obviously don't understand how I work at my shop.

 

$400.00  - Chassis complete with motor, transmission, and drive train (from a 1990 Ford Ranger I bought a while back for $400).  The truck runs fine too.

$100.00 - Welding supplies to modify the frame to fit the '54 Chevy body.

$100.00 - Used sheet metal to repair the '54 Chevy body.

$90.00 - Three gallons of Majic Equipment paint from Tractor Supply.  1gal Primer, 2-gallons of color for nice two-tone paint job.   $30 a gal.

$200.00 - Material to sew up a new interior.

$25.00 - Rustoleum Chrome paint to emulate the $10k Chrome job.

$400.00 - 4 new cheap tires.

$185.00 - new brake shoes, brake lines, cylinder rebuild kits, etc.

 

TOTAL $1,500.00

 

And here's the finished product:

 

41104970-822-1954-Chevrolet-Bel-Air.jpg

 

 

Oh wait.  I forgot to add,....

 

$998,648,237,110,694.00 - labor.

 

But hey, only $1,500 in parts. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yup, Agreed. lots-O-ways to skin the cat. I always come out ahead in my restoration projects too. Of course my in house shop rate is thirty five cents an hour........Bob

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Just reading the above posts; you may  do better by passing on this car.

 

To much time and $$$$ to rebuild something that has limited appeal.  Don;'t get me wrong, I have owned 4 - door Chevy's and others , but never spent much for them.  Great cars to drive, but hard to recoup and money spent on them.

 

Buy them in running or near running condition, and have fun with them.  Your car, is going to need lots of everything.

Edited by intimeold (see edit history)
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