supercargirl

1904 PIERCE-ARROW L 8M 2/4 PL STANHOPE Reduced

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This 1904 Pierce Motorette has been VCC dated and has successfully completed the London-Brighton Veteran Car Run on several occasions. In the early 50's it was one of a number of important automobiles in the collection of famed tenor James Melton who displayed it in his Connecticut museum and in his Autorama in Hypoluxo, Florida. It was purchased from Melton by radio heir Atwater Kent, Jr. and later donated to the Pennsylvania State Museum. It was acquired from the Museum in 1996 by Charlie Brown of the UK who recommissioned it to campaign in the LTB.

Dated by the Veteran Car Club of Great Britain,

A highly original and correct car, it is thought to have been repainted at one point, but is still retaining much of its upholstery.
Car No. 187
Ran in the LTR:  2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008,2009, and 2010.  Has been meticulously maintained with over $3,000.00 worth of work done over the last few years (invoice available).
 
Power Unit number: 187
HP: 8
Cylinders: 1
Cylinder Bore:  3.937"
Piston Stroke: 4.312"
Modifications to the engine: None
Price is $100,000.00 US  kelly@classictag.net

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 Reminds me of the 1903 Cadillac and 1905 Cadillacs I used to have. I remember the crank was on the side of both cars. I sold them some time ago because I needed to buy a new tow truck and a new flatbed at the same time so I needed the cash. Now that I see how prices went up on very early cars, I should have kept the Caddys. ?

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2 minutes ago, RICHELIEUMOTORCAR said:

 Reminds me of the 1903 Cadillac and 1905 Cadillacs I used to have. I remember the crank was on the side of both cars. I sold them some time ago because I needed to buy a new tow truck and a new flatbed at the same time so I needed the cash. Now that I see how prices went up on very early cars, I should have kept the Caddys. ?

 

Or find yourself a good broker that makes sure you get the most money for your car!  ?

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Cars like this seem to be a difficult sell these days. I am sure there are many on this forum that would be very interested in a car like this , myself included .   However at this stage in life any $100,000.00  hobby car is simply out of the question for many of us. The main event this car is suited to , the London to Brighton run has become a very expensive proposition particularly for those of us in North America.

  And most of the people with the disposable income and the interest in events like L to B already have a suitable  car or two. 

 A wonderful car, no doubt it will eventually find a new home.

 

Greg in Canada

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Greg,

 

I think you underestimate the reach of this forum.  Yes maybe a majority of the actual members are not in the market for a car but there are people viewing this forum from all over the world.  It's the only site of its kind.  I had over 1,000 hits in three weeks on the Chrysler I put on here recently.  That is better than any result I get advertising on the web. And they can't all be members of the forum.

While the car has not sold it is still a testament to the kind of traffic this site brings.  And I have made some very good collector contacts by presenting my cars here.  People from Australia, Germany, Belgium, Mexico..

 

You are right about a lot of these events being out of reach from the average Joe but there are a lot of cars I post that would be great starter cars for a new collector. And while the cars may be out of your budget you can't say that it isn't interesting to read about them and look at the pictures.  They are cars.  And we are all here because we love cars.  

 

 

Kelly

 

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New Cadillacs easily have a sticker of 100k, I looked at a GMC pick up last month for 88k, and it was a leftover.  The Pierce is a a much better investment than the new car.......yes, it’s expensive for a low use toy if your a middle class working man with a family. But then again, I recently saw a set of wheels sell for 60k, and a pair of lights for 25k, it’s all relative.I have had very good luck selling cars here. From all price categories and era’s. You could have thirty five of these for the cost of the Tucker Convertiable! 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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I only made the observation based on the fact you have been representing it for 4 months and several bumps without a result. I have a reasonably good grasp of the qualities of this site, and you are quite correct it is one of the best for the old car hobby.

 The only car I have personally been interested in lately  was somewhat overpriced and sat on the market for 2 years. It was a bit cosmetically challenged as well as being a little tired mechanically so was going to need a fair amount spent on it in the medium future.  I managed to wiggle the price down about 50% of what separated it from a realistic price and was about to make a final attempt to sway the seller. Next thing I knew a buyer in England made a deal for the full asking price.

 Ironically an at least superficially superior example came on the market in the U.K. not 2 weeks after the deal was made on the one here in Canada for almost the identical price. The overall cost to the buyer would have been substantially less taking into consideration transport and import costs.  The seller was happy at least.

 

Greg in Canada

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Greg, 

 

Did you make an offer on the car you were somewhat interested in?  I find that once you get dialogue going a sale soon follows.  Sometimes it takes a year for a car to sell.  Just this week when I was about to tell two different sellers it might be time to drop the price solid buyers came out of the wood work and bought the cars at our asking prices.

 Buying a car is all about seeing a car you just have to have.  Selling the car is finding that person.  There have been solid nibbles on this car.  One guy had to have it and turned it down because he and his wife thought the karma was bad.  The owner and his son had planned to do the LTB event but the son had a skiing accident and is now a paraplegic. So you see.  Tons of reasons why a car is still for sale. 

A car just has to appeal to the right person.  You should always make an offer though.  The worst that can happen is the seller says no but nine times out of ten if it is a reasonable offer the car gets sold.

Kelly

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47 minutes ago, edinmass said:

New Cadillacs easily have a sticker of 100k, I looked at a GMC pick up last month for 88k, and it was a leftover.  The Pierce is a a much better investment than the new car.......yes, it’s expensive for a low use toy if your a middle class working man with a family. Buy then again, I recently saw a set of wheels sell for 60k, and a pair of lights for 25k, it’s all relative.I have had very good luck selling cars here. From all price categories and era’s. You could have thirty five of these for the cost of the Tucker Convertiable! 

 

 

You are absolutely correct Ed, it's all relative. It's a very nice early Pierce , one that any of us would treasure.  And certainly some on this forum can definitely afford hobby cars in this price range.

Greg

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15 hours ago, supercargirl said:

Greg, 

 

Did you make an offer on the car you were somewhat interested in?  I find that once you get dialogue going a sale soon follows.  Sometimes it takes a year for a car to sell.  Just this week when I was about to tell two different sellers it might be time to drop the price solid buyers came out of the wood work and bought the cars at our asking prices.

 Buying a car is all about seeing a car you just have to have.  Selling the car is finding that person.  There have been solid nibbles on this car.  One guy had to have it and turned it down because he and his wife thought the karma was bad.  The owner and his son had planned to do the LTB event but the son had a skiing accident and is now a paraplegic. So you see.  Tons of reasons why a car is still for sale. 

A car just has to appeal to the right person.  You should always make an offer though.  The worst that can happen is the seller says no but nine times out of ten if it is a reasonable offer the car gets sold.

Kelly

No I did not make an offer. I was in a steady dialogue with the seller for the  two years the car was on the market. I talked to a number of people who were even more familiar with the car than I was. They were all of the opinion the car was overpriced.  I made it very clear that I was a cash buyer at the correct price. And I made it clear that his initial price drop was a strong step in the right direction.  I did not want to insult / alienate the seller making an offer that potentially left him room to counter-offer up to my price . I was about to make my offer when the clock ran out because of the new buyer.  I have bought and sold quite a few cars over the last 45 years and have a system that generally works for me.  This time it did not . I really did not foresee an international buyer turning up out of the blue, and willing to pay an all costs involved price that would have been nearly 25% over the odds.  A surprise and a disappointment all in one. It also would have been the most expensive car I have ever purchased by a fair margin so the price had to be right.

 

Greg

  

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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A Pierce Motorette or Stanhope is one of my dream cars, but at this stage of my life I choose not to put the kind of money out there needed to acquire.  This is a nice little car.  I do have a 1903 Stanhope 6 HP engine, #107, in beautiful running condition, just not the rest of the car!!

 

I've bought over 200 collector cars in my life, and I have some very simple rules for such acquisitions.

 

-Find a car you want to own.  Inspect it personally, if you don't do that, then you, as buyer, are at risk.  Do NOT start criticizing faults of car to seller, to do so just begins to build a wall between you and him/her.

 

-If seller has a fair price on car, and seller is hesitant or squirrelly in any way, pay the price and get the car.  In such cases, having the money in hand and being prepared to remove the car immediately are the best strategies.

 

-If, in your mind, the seller is asking too much, then make a fair offer.  Negotiate as needed.  However, you MUST be prepared to walk away if price isn't to your satisfaction.

 

-Any offer made is good WHILE I"M STANDING THERE, and no longer.  Buy the car or not, but don't start a bidding war.

 

-Always ask if there is more that goes with the car, parts, manuals, and so forth.  I once passed on a very early Model T chassis (open valve), only to find out later the seller had the complete body stashed away.

 

-NEVER get into an argument with seller. Never deal with a seller who's belligerent to you, or belittles you.  Yes, it happens. Walk away.

 

From a selling standpoint, ask a fair price and work with a potential buyer as well as you can.  Be honest and don't hide faults of car.  Don't make up facts to help sell a car, I once had a dealer sell me a car (sight unseen, see above) and he said it was a custom body car, it wasn't, but at the time I wasn't educated enough on the marque, he basically lied to me.   I will say that I've been on the verge of selling certain cars, and the would-be buyer makes some kind of comment that offends me, and I've said no.  

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5 hours ago, trimacar said:

A Pierce Motorette or Stanhope is one of my dream cars, but at this stage of my life I choose not to put the kind of money out there needed to acquire.  This is a nice little car.  I do have a 1903 Stanhope 6 HP engine, #107, in beautiful running condition, just not the rest of the car!!

 

I've bought over 200 collector cars in my life, and I have some very simple rules for such acquisitions.

 

-Find a car you want to own.  Inspect it personally, if you don't do that, then you, as buyer, are at risk.  Do NOT start criticizing faults of car to seller, to do so just begins to build a wall between you and him/her.

 

-If seller has a fair price on car, and seller is hesitant or squirrelly in any way, pay the price and get the car.  In such cases, having the money in hand and being prepared to remove the car immediately are the best strategies.

 

-If, in your mind, the seller is asking too much, then make a fair offer.  Negotiate as needed.  However, you MUST be prepared to walk away if price isn't to your satisfaction.

 

-Any offer made is good WHILE I"M STANDING THERE, and no longer.  Buy the car or not, but don't start a bidding war.

 

-Always ask if there is more that goes with the car, parts, manuals, and so forth.  I once passed on a very early Model T chassis (open valve), only to find out later the seller had the complete body stashed away.

 

-NEVER get into an argument with seller. Never deal with a seller who's belligerent to you, or belittles you.  Yes, it happens. Walk away.

 

From a selling standpoint, ask a fair price and work with a potential buyer as well as you can.  Be honest and don't hide faults of car.  Don't make up facts to help sell a car, I once had a dealer sell me a car (sight unseen, see above) and he said it was a custom body car, it wasn't, but at the time I wasn't educated enough on the marque, he basically lied to me.   I will say that I've been on the verge of selling certain cars, and the would-be buyer makes some kind of comment that offends me, and I've said no.  

 

It sounds like we have evolved a very similar method of buying and selling hobby cars. I am no where near your figure of 200 cars , more like 50 { closer to 100 if you include vintage motorcycles} , however by sticking to this sort of approach I have been happy with every deal I have made. 

 I have sold a few cars in regret, usually due to a change in circumstance. However I always received a fair price for them, and have been able is some cases to either buy them back or replace them once things were more favorable.  

The game continues, just at a more measured pace now that I am retired and my income has shrunk.

 

Greg

Edited by 1912Staver (see edit history)

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