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Riviera63

Want To Buy: 1963 Muffler

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Unfortunately, I did not learn/heed the warnings about the problems with the water in the muffler soon enough. I have drilled a drainage hole but, I see there is some rot on the bottom and I am figuring that it's not going to last too much longer. I know this is a long shot but, thought I would ask anyway. Does anyone out there have a muffler that they would be willing to sell or know someone that has one that they are willing to sell? I would prefer OEM. If I am unable to find an OEM muffler I would turn to other sources such as Waldrons. Does anyone have any experience with their mufflers? Are they constructed the same way internally and function as OEM? Any advice or help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Bill 

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I have used Waldron twice with my former 65.  I went through 2 in 7 years.  They may have one in stainless but I haven’t checked their web site in a long time.

Their muffler looks good but as I and others have said in the past, these rust quickly on a car that sees limited use.  When I used my former 64 as a daily driver, the muffler lasted much longer.  I went through 4 Midas mufflers and 2 sets of resonators in 24 years.  I never had to replace the pipes from the manifolds to the resonators and the tail pipes were replaced twice.

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When I was driving my 63 as a a daily driver, I had a Midas muffler installed on it in 1985.  It was a replacement for the original as far as my records indicate.  I ran that muffler until I quit driving it as a daily driver in 1996.   I ran the factory resonators as well.  I was developing a hole in the exhaust pipe ahead of the resonator about that same time.  Perhaps I was just lucky.  I still have the warranty from Midas for a lifetime replacement.  I wonder if they can honor it?  The problem is that the muffler is a long ways from the engine.  

 

You might try The Buick Farm or some other dealer in NOS parts to see what may still be around.  Otherwise, Waldrons or an aftermarket dual inlet/dual outlet muffler may be your only choices.  

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2 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

Unfortunately, I did not learn/heed the warnings about the problems with the water in the muffler soon enough. I have drilled a drainage hole but, I see there is some rot on the bottom and I am figuring that it's not going to last too much longer. I know this is a long shot but, thought I would ask anyway. Does anyone out there have a muffler that they would be willing to sell or know someone that has one that they are willing to sell? I would prefer OEM. If I am unable to find an OEM muffler I would turn to other sources such as Waldrons. Does anyone have any experience with their mufflers? Are they constructed the same way internally and function as OEM? Any advice or help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

Bill 

Bill,

  You could start an upgrade to a `65 Gran Sport system by doing the muffler and tail pipes. Then later do the other components as the need arises or spendable income become available. Cant hurt to open up the exhaust a little and the correct pieces are readily available, even the hangers.

  If you look hard and long enough you may find an OEM NOS muffler. Exhaust replacement was so typical there are probably quite a few still hanging around.

  These cars are very hard on exhaust by virtue of the placement of the components. In my experience they always have been even as daily drivers. I just picked up a `65 which came with complete maintenance records and the original owner was smart enough to use Midas at some point. He was back there almost every year for a long time for something related to the exhaust. If you are keeping your car I would strongly consider stainless...just my 2 cents,

Tom

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 My '60 Electra has a dual inlet and outlet muffler similar to the Riviera mufflers. I wanted a new quiet system to drive to the BCA Nationals in Danvers, MA. I started out spending something like $650 for a system from a major vendor that, apparently, singled me out to provide with the worst pile of scrap metal I ever bought. At the end I had close to $1500 tied up in a very quiet system that has no odd cuts "for shipping length" and no rattles from banging the frame. All that is left of the original purchase -on the car- is the slightly rebent tailpipes. The rest is in my Nephew's metal pile except for two front pipes, poorly made, and not cut for shipping. Those are in the ceiling rafters of my garage if I need a piece of pipe. I missed the Danvers meet because the system was so bad.

 

The car now has NORS manufactured replacement pipes and an NOS factory muffler I found on Ebay.

I have also gathered the pieces for a complete new system for my '64 Riviera. All are manufactured parts. IF I can't find a replacement exhaust pipe in the future the only thing I will accept is a mandrel bent pipe formed with my car on the lift next to the bender. And it is very hard to find a quiet shop made muffler.

 

If I end up with a rusty muffler without a replacement on hand, like you, I will remove the muffler, cut it open and repair it. Muffler sound deadener packing is available online and it is a straight forward job to rebuild a muffler with a home MIG welder.

 

Plan well ahead and watch Ebay and Craiglist for NORS exhaust parts. I bought my front pipes from Les Flaisher just north of Detroit and got an invitation to watch the Woodward Cruise from the roof of his van. Drove from Rochester, NY to Detroit on a Craigslist ad to buy pipes I knew would be good. (Good excuse for a trip).

 

Watch the replies. I have no idea why this wonderful craftsman exhaust maker singled me out, others are tickled pink. The lesson, well, in the end I found an alternative that will never let me down. So it wasn't 100% loss.

Bernie

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23 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

Bill,

  You could start an upgrade to a `65 Gran Sport system by doing the muffler and tail pipes. Then later do the other components as the need arises or spendable income become available. Cant hurt to open up the exhaust a little and the correct pieces are readily available, even the hangers.

  If you look hard and long enough you may find an OEM NOS muffler. Exhaust replacement was so typical there are probably quite a few still hanging around.

  These cars are very hard on exhaust by virtue of the placement of the components. In my experience they always have been even as daily drivers. I just picked up a `65 which came with complete maintenance records and the original owner was smart enough to use Midas at some point. He was back there almost every year for a long time for something related to the exhaust. If you are keeping your car I would strongly consider stainless...just my 2 cents,

Tom

 

Thanks for the input from everyone so far. When I got the car back in 2014, I had the whole exhaust replaced front to back by the local shop that works on my car. I remember the owner being so excited that he finally got to use that Riviera muffler that had been with the stock when he purchased the business and had been saving for the past 25 years. Tom, at that time you had already suggested to me to use the 65 GS exhaust pattern. They bend all of their own pipes so that's what I told them to do. We did not go with resonators at that time because the new muffler really did do the job and besides that I love the rumble of a V8. The whole system is like new except for the muffler which is starting to show some rot on the bottom. I will be keeping the car so the idea of replacing the muffler with a stainless steel one from Waldron's has its appeal. However, if I find an OEM muffler at a reasonable price and use the preventive measures suggested on the forum to boost its longevity that would be OK too. I think I will be fine for this year and maybe into next year but, I know it's coming so I want to get things in place now so I am not scrambling later.

 

Bill

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9 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

So, to be clear, you are looking for an OEM `65 Gran Sport muffler?

Tom

 

I am not saying that. What I said is that my exhaust is new front to back and that they used the 65 GS pattern to route the pipes. What are the differences between the GS exhaust system and the regular Riviera system? Is it just a larger diameter pipe? I will have to check back with my exhaust guys as to what they actually did. I just assumed they used the 65 GS routing pattern and then used the the regular Riviera diameter pipes and muffler. I don't know if the muffler they used was a regular Riviera muffler or a GS muffler. Since they do their own bending they would have been able to incorporate the muffler no matter which one they had. They may be able to use either one when they do the replacement. I will check and get back.

 

Bill

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I found the GS exhaust specs on an old thread. 2 1/4" header pipes and 2" tails. I went out and checked my car. I have 2 1/4" header pipes all the way back to the rear axle. They then ran 2" pipe from there over the axle and into/out of the muffler. So the muffler I am assuming is a stock Riviera muffler. With the set up I have it looks like I could go either way with the replacement muffler.

 

Bill

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48 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

I have one that needs a home.  Brand new GM.   Its heavy, so shipping might be expensive.  

Thanks, I will PM.

48 minutes ago, Zimm63 said:

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Riviera63 said:

I found the GS exhaust specs on an old thread. 2 1/4" header pipes and 2" tails. I went out and checked my car. I have 2 1/4" header pipes all the way back to the rear axle. They then ran 2" pipe from there over the axle and into/out of the muffler. So the muffler I am assuming is a stock Riviera muffler. With the set up I have it looks like I could go either way with the replacement muffler.

 

Bill

Bill, I have no idea what your shop did to your car but when you referenced the GS exhaust I assumed your shop used the appropriate pipe diameters. Doesnt make much sense to me to use the GS pipe routing and not step up to the larger diameter pipe but to each his own.

Just as an FYI the GS header pipes are 2 1/4 in diameter, except for the over axles which are the same as the standard Riv, and the GS cars had 2 inch tails out of the muffler instead of the standard 1 7/8ths tails. So the GS muffler has 2 inch stubs for the tails. Good luck,

Tom

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1 hour ago, 1965rivgs said:

Bill, I have no idea what your shop did to your car but when you referenced the GS exhaust I assumed your shop used the appropriate pipe diameters. Doesnt make much sense to me to use the GS pipe routing and not step up to the larger diameter pipe but to each his own.

Just as an FYI the GS header pipes are 2 1/4 in diameter, except for the over axles which are the same as the standard Riv, and the GS cars had 2 inch tails out of the muffler instead of the standard 1 7/8ths tails. So the GS muffler has 2 inch stubs for the tails. Good luck,

Tom

 

Tom,

 

I thought I had explained that in post # 10, which is the same post you just quoted in post 13. My shop ran 2 1/4" headers back to the rear axle, then 2" pipe over the axle into the muffler and 2" out. From that info and the info you just stated in your last post, that means the muffler on my car is a GS muffler. What is the normal Riv configuration? 2" headers and 1 7/8" over the axle and the tails or was it 1 7/8" all the way? 

 

Bill

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1 hour ago, Riviera63 said:

 

Tom,

 

I thought I had explained that in post # 10, which is the same post you just quoted in post 13. My shop ran 2 1/4" headers back to the rear axle, then 2" pipe over the axle into the muffler and 2" out. From that info and the info you just stated in your last post, that means the muffler on my car is a GS muffler. What is the normal Riv configuration? 2" headers and 1 7/8" over the axle and the tails or was it 1 7/8" all the way? 

 

Bill

LOL...this is alot simpler than it sounds, I must not be communicating well. If you read my post re the difference in pipe diameters in a GS versus standard system, I stated the GS has the same size over the axle (and therefore the inlet to the muffler) as a standard muffler but the GS tails are 2 inch diameter versus the standard tails which are 1 7/8ths. You stated that your shop used 2 inch pipe out of the muffler. Therefore, you require a `65 GS replacement muffler, as per my post #8, to use your existing tails...unless your shop used some sort of a sleeve to adapt a standard muffler (which has a 1 7/8ths stub) to the size of the GS tails? As I stated, I dont know what your shop did? I would be surprised if they had a GS spec muffler on the shelf but who knows?

Tom

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16 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

LOL...this is alot simpler than it sounds, I must not be communicating well. If you read my post re the difference in pipe diameters in a GS versus standard system, I stated the GS has the same size over the axle (and therefore the inlet to the muffler) as a standard muffler but the GS tails are 2 inch diameter versus the standard tails which are 1 7/8ths. You stated that your shop used 2 inch pipe out of the muffler. Therefore, you require a `65 GS replacement muffler, as per my post #8, to use your existing tails...unless your shop used some sort of a sleeve to adapt a standard muffler (which has a 1 7/8ths stub) to the size of the GS tails? As I stated, I dont know what your shop did? I would be surprised if they had a GS spec muffler on the shelf but who knows?

Tom

Tom,

 

I agree and I get it. All you asked in post number 8 is if I needed a GS replacement muffler, I didn't know at that time as I did know what the specs of a GS system were nor the specs of a standard system.  Because I did not have specific numbers I had no idea what my system was. All you had stated to that point was the GS was "bigger". Bigger than what? Bigger is abstract unless one has numbers or quantities to compare. 

 

GS= 2 1/4" header, 1 7/8" over axle, 2" out

 

My car (stated in post 10, 13 & 14)= 2 1/4" header, 2" over axle, 2" out with no adapter,  Muffler is a GS muffler (was on shelf for 30-40 years, so why not a GS?)

 

Regular Riviera= 1 7/8" over axle, 1 7/8" out, ? header. 

 

For my own knowledge what is the size of the header pipe for a regular Riviera system? Thanks for the info.

 

Bill

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The standard header pipe is 2" diameter with a "S" curve under the front seat (to cut down on harmonics/resonance/vibrations)  It would be more thought that a GS with a bigger straighter pipe would be LESS back pressure & a slightly more aggressive sound out the back, but still quiet enough to suit most.

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1 hour ago, telriv said:

The standard header pipe is 2" diameter with a "S" curve under the front seat (to cut down on harmonics/resonance/vibrations)  It would be more thought that a GS with a bigger straighter pipe would be LESS back pressure & a slightly more aggressive sound out the back, but still quiet enough to suit most.

 

 

Thanks for that info Tom. I was just curious about the standard Riv set up. That is what I have with the GS configuration on my car. It is quiet but, there is a pleasing V8 rumble at the tail pipes.

 

Bill

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God knows if my Riv Gran Sport had its original exhaust system when I bought it in 1983.  I replaced the whole she-bang soon after I bought the car, at Speedy Muffler King

In the next 10 years I went through about 7 mufflers, all replaced under their lifetime warranty.  They got tired of seeing me.  Then, the last time I went in for the regular muffler replacement they turned me down, saying the muffler was discontinued, and I'd have to adapt the system to use an F-Body (Camaro/FIrebird) muffler at extra cost.  I protested to the Speedy zone manager, arguing why should I have to pay extra because THEY decided to discontinue the Riv muffler, and that this was a breach of their vaulted lifetime warranty.  They sent me a cheque for $350 to get rid of me. 

 

I later bought a complete G.S. patterned exhaust system from Waldron's.  It's been on the car for about 12 years.  Their system didn't come with resonators, so i found a couple of NOS ones on eBAY.  The system fit well with only minor tweaking needed.  I  did not drill any drain holes in the muffler. and haven't had any sign of muffler rot yet.  I drive my Riv 3-5 times a month, year round weather permitting.

 

I think the key to long muffler life is to always run the car long enough each time to fully dry out the muffler, which I do.  That leaves minimal condensation in the system, which is cause of the muffler rust through.

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