Recommended Posts

I would like everyone to know that I had a great time in Denver this is my third meet.  Portland Oregon for a look then traveled to Brookfield Wisconsin signed up and tried judging it was fun.

  Then the Denver meet, a yellow vest was usually in sight if you had any questions this is a big help when you are not familiar with an area.  Then the 1908 Buick running around full of people this will bring some enthusiasm for the next generation.   I also judged with a great group had a blast I am hooked now.  To everyone that was in Denver it was great to meet you and enjoy the Buicks.  I want to be sure that the Denver group knows that they did a great job!   

Steve

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

Well, I"ll say it: The Denver meet organizers did an excellent job of organizing and running the meet. My only disappointment was the low attendance of cars. The Rambler Ranch tour was absolutely fabulous.

 

And I"ll also come out and say that I'm not a fan of "all-together parking" on Saturday morning, and this is why (go ahead and attack me, I don't care): I had to judge the Archival (unrestored) cars. Our team had 23 cars to judge, and they were parked all over the lot, from one end to the other.  My team was out there for more than five and a half hours, if you count our lunch break. The Archival class includes unrestored cars from 1903 up to the early 1990s. Some of the Pre-War cars we had to judge were parked at the far end of the show field with the other Archival cars. But others were parked at the very far other end of the lot with the other Pre-War cars. I judged the chassis, so in addition to all of the walking around, I had to get up and down from the pavement about 100 times (once in the front, once in the rear and twice on the sides of each car--that's damned near 100 times). The walking from one end of the lot to the other, and then up and down the rows of Pre-War cars pretty well finished me off that day on top of all the getting up and down on my knees. Luckily, we didn't have any 80-year-olds on our judging team this time, but if we had, they probably would have given out before it was all over. I don't know about you, but I don't want to see one of our members get a heart attack or heat stroke or fall onto the pavement during the judging, and that's why each judging class should be parked together on Saturday morning. The rest of the meet, I have no problem with all-together parking, but I do not support or condone it on Saturday morning during the judging.  Do one of you all-together parking people want to drive the ambulance on Saturday morning? I am serious. Our club has older members and if you take a look at the judges during the Saturday a.m. judge's breakfast, I"ll wager that the average age is about 75.

That's why I don't like "all-together" parking on Saturday morning. And next year in Oklahoma, it's not going to be 72 degrees outside like it was for most of the day in Denver.

 

Okay, now you guys can go ahead and attack me, but as I said, I don't care and I don't want the sudden death or injury of one of our judges on my conscience.

 

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Leonard, Texas

Pete: This was a test for all together parking. One of the problems we did encounter was the size of the Archival Class. As Head judge, I will take the responsibility for part of your problem. I some how thought I I think I missed seeing one of Roy's class breakdown sheets) we had six cars in your class, when in fact we had 23. We have a year to work out details before next year's Meet to resolve this problem. One thought John Steed and I had was splitting the archival in to more than one class. Again, luckily we have a year to come up with a solution. You are totally  correct about heat and age of our membership. The other classes had 7 to 9 cars and I had to remove a judge from the field due to heat and altitude issues.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

Pete: This was a test for all together parking. One of the problems we did encounter was the size of the Archival Class. As Head judge, I will take the responsibility for part of your problem. I some how thought I I think I missed seeing one of Roy's class breakdown sheets) we had six cars in your class, when in fact we had 23. We have a year to work out details before next year's Meet to resolve this problem. One thought John Steed and I had was splitting the archival in to more than one class. Again, luckily we have a year to come up with a solution. You are totally  correct about heat and age of our membership. The other classes had 7 to 9 cars and I had to remove a judge from the field due to heat and altitude issues.

Anyone who has modified a car knows that when you change one thing you create 3 new problems...that applies here also!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

Our team had 23 cars to judge, and they were parked all over the lot, from one end to the other.

Pete,

     No attack, just a clarification.  All the prewar cars were parked in just one isle at one end of the show field.  Therefore, your problem was not caused by the prewar parking arrangements.  

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"No attack, just a clarification.  All the prewar cars were parked in just one isle at one end of the show field.  Therefore, your problem was not caused by the prewar parking arrangements"

Not true. I judged them. You did not. We had Pre-War cars at one end of the lot and at the other end of the lot. Read my thread again.

Pete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Pete Phillips said:

You did not. We had Pre-War cars at one end of the lot and at the other end of the lot. Read my thread again.

Pete,

     Larry Schramm & I only marked the first isle for chronological parking.  Any prewar cars parked outside the first isle were parked according to judging class and were not parked chronologically.  Therefore, you cannot blame the prewar parking arrangements for your judging problems. 

 

Jack Welch accepted responsibility above when he posted:  "As Head judge, I will take the responsibility for part of your problem. I some how thought I I think I missed seeing one of Roy's class breakdown sheets) we had six cars in your class, when in fact we had 23."

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now I’m curious.  I haven’t judged Archival Class recently (since the change was made).  Is it that rigorous now?  I haven’t gotten down on a knee on all four sides judging chassis for 400 point (maybe I’m at fault, but we’ve always been told not to kill the car).  23 cars in 5 hours suggests in the range of 12 minutes per car (taking off half an hour for lunch).  Again, judging school always suggested 5-10 minutes per car in the 400 point.

 

I’m not suggesting you didn’t go through anything physically demanding.  I judged Archival in Bellevue where they were parked by year and we really enjoyed it...I think U1 ended around 1970 or in the 70s that year.  Honestly I believe we need to re-assess judging and how we do in the the BCA when I hear of issues like this.  Either we need to recruit more people to judge, or we need to somehow get fewer cars to be judged if the classes get too large to handle.  If we spend no more than 10 minutes per car, and have no more than 10 cars in a class, judging teams should be off the show field well before noon.  They can then enjoy lunch and if they so desire, actually look at the rest of the assembled show field before it dissipates.

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many judges are there?  Would they fit in a golf cart?  I'm serious.  Maybe we can have it both ways if there is someone at future meets that can find someone local to donate usage of a golf cart for a day.  If not, then square one, but there are a lot of golf carts around.  Just something to think about. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lancemb,

 

There are always rental golf carts used at a National Meet, as long as I have been a member.  Only, one more seems need to shuttle archival judges between areas or another set of judges, and divide cars by age.

 

John 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jscheib said:

lancemb,

 

There are always rental golf carts used at a National Meet, as long as I have been a member.

 

John 

This seems like a very easy problem to solve then!  After all, the problems being described are pretty much exactly why golf carts exist at golf courses.

Edited by lancemb (see edit history)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, lancemb said:

How many judges are there?  Would they fit in a golf cart?  I'm serious.  Maybe we can have it both ways if there is someone at future meets that can find someone local to donate usage of a golf cart for a day.  If not, then square one, but there are a lot of golf carts around.  Just something to think about. 

There were well over 50 judges at Denver. We had the use of at least 4 golf carts. Three of those were used to shuttle members to and from the show filed . Many of our members have reached an age where, they need walking assists, such as canes, walkers, electric carts, etc. I had a dedicated cart for judging as head judge. I used this to respond to judging issues on the show field, as well as delivering water to judging teams and show participants. When I did not need it for  those functions, it was used for shuttle service. Bottom line is that golf carts are very handy and very expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

Bottom line is that golf carts are very handy and very expensive.

 

OTOH, you can quite possibly rent a car for less than a golf cart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

There were well over 50 judges at Denver. We had the use of at least 4 golf carts. Three of those were used to shuttle members to and from the show filed . Many of our members have reached an age where, they need walking assists, such as canes, walkers, electric carts, etc. I had a dedicated cart for judging as head judge. I used this to respond to judging issues on the show field, as well as delivering water to judging teams and show participants. When I did not need it for  those functions, it was used for shuttle service. Bottom line is that golf carts are very handy and very expensive.

Holy cow!  I had no idea there were so many judges.  Is that normal?  The plot thickens a bit.  Nonetheless, I don't imagine that they all would need a cart.  Maybe we're only a couple carts shy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, KongaMan said:

 

OTOH, you can quite possibly rent a car for less than a golf cart.

Based on what I was quoted in Denver for a rental car, I think I'd buy a golf cart first then!

Edited by lancemb (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, lancemb said:

Holy cow!  I had no idea there were so many judges.  Is that normal?  The plot thickens a bit.  Nonetheless, I don't imagine that they all would need a cart.  Maybe we're only a couple carts shy.

 

50 seems a bit low but it varies by how many registrants we have. Denver was a smaller show, thus less registrants, less cars and less judges. Assume you have a team of 4 or 5 for each class and there are over 10 classes and some classes get split into 2 or 3 so assume 15+ classes,...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, 38Buick 80C said:

 

50 seems a bit low but it varies by how many registrants we have. Denver was a smaller show, thus less registrants, less cars and less judges. Assume you have a team of 4 or 5 for each class and there are over 10 classes and some classes get split into 2 or 3 so assume 15+ classes,...

We were able to combine a lot of classes this year. Usually the number of volunteers to judge is a fairly standard percentage of registrants, so it usually works out. This year we were able to have teams of a captain and four judges per class. It very seldom works out that well. BTW, love some of your suggestions about judging possibilities at Charlotte. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/2/2018 at 5:54 PM, Pete Phillips said:

 I judged the chassis, so in addition to all of the walking around, I had to get up and down from the pavement about 100 times (once in the front, once in the rear and twice on the sides of each car--that's damned near 100 times).

I don't have a solution to the problem, Pete, as regardless of where the cars were parked you would still be up & down the same number of times. Seems to me the walk between cars spread out might actually give a bit of relief by providing some recovery time...😉

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/5/2018 at 6:38 AM, 38Buick 80C said:

 

50 seems a bit low but it varies by how many registrants we have. Denver was a smaller show, thus less registrants, less cars and less judges. Assume you have a team of 4 or 5 for each class and there are over 10 classes and some classes get split into 2 or 3 so assume 15+ classes,...

According to Roy Faries we had 64 Judges:  Here are Roy's numbers I used in a BCA2018 presentation to the NTX club last Saturday.  I was on a team that judged the Riviera's and we had 11 to judge and like Pete I was the chassis guy so I too was up and down a bunch.  In the Denver thin air and the warmth of the day as we approached noon the water bottles came in handy.

 

Chuck

 

              Final Numbers

 

Registrations w/guests:  331
Vendors:                                   33

          Paved Outdoor spaces   46

          Indoor spaces                     28

          Car Corral spaces                 9

 

Total  Cars                                   171

          400 point judging      72

          Display only                  64

          Archival                           21

          Modified                         14

          Drivers                             53

          Senior                              15

 

People

          Total people                           654

          Judges                              64

 

           

Chuck

Edited by chuck nixon (see edit history)
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, chuck nixon said:

Total  Cars = 171 ???

          400 point judging          72

          Display only                    64

          Archival                           21

          Modified                         14

          Drivers                             53

          Senior                              15

                                                  -----------

                                                239 Total                Something is wrong with this math...

 

Edited by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The drivers and seniors are included in the total.
400 Point - 72
Display Only -  64
Archival - 21
Modified - 14
 
Total - 171
 
In other words, of the 171 cars registered, 53 were driven and 15 were seniors.  The Driven and seniors could be in the other categories, too.
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now