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Annual Grand National rule changes for 2019

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Should read " he has had at least 7 cars professionally restored". He also sends cars to shows, most recently a Nash at the Auburn AACA Meet, just to support the clubs,  even when he cannot himself attend.

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On ‎6‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:15 PM, Doug Novak said:

All I can say is to be able to achieve the Grand National Award in the same Year as Senior and Junior diminishes the rewards of the achievement. To walk up the latter of success should remain a timely process requiring one to work up to it and to preserve the vehicle over time.   I look forward to each step on a yearly basis and it keeps me involved in the Hobby that I love. 

Spot On....Well Said...My thoughts also....:)

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On 6/26/2018 at 7:43 PM, Writer Jon said:

Having had a somewhat unpleasant conversation with a trophy hound at the last meet that I attended, perhaps it's not a bad idea to be able to let them progress through the system faster and be gone.  It could make the shows more enjoyable to those who are there for the right reasons.  It's not just AACA, other clubs are facing the same issue with trophy hounds.

 

Credit should go to those in charge for attempting to improve the situation by making the rule change and committing to monitoring the situation.  As the rule has changed, bear in mind that it could change back, too.

 

With all due respect, what makes your reasons the "right reasons"? We all enjoy this hobby in different ways, and everyone should respect that.  I seldom ever heard an owner of a high caliber restoration criticize why people bother to participate in DPC, but more often I hear "I drive my cars I have fun, not like those trophy hounds"

Fun is subjective and that should always be remembered by all. 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)

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Doug, it is still a ladder of success.  You still have to go and compete for the award.  The standard does not change.  We talk about it being a year but in many cases it really is only 7-9 months for some who get their senior at Hershey.  I have put a few cars through the system in the past and quite frankly in the same year or in the next year I would not expect it would make my job any harder to get the car ready to compete.  If I have restored a car properly from the start I know how to keep it ready for points judging whether it is one or two or three years or more!  After all, you also have the senior grand national to go after if you desire. Sorry, but I personally do not see that time diminishes or rewards in this case.  To my way of thinking we all strive to get as close to 400 points as we can and that does not change.

 

So the question the board fought over is the number of people who asked why make us wait a year?  It is arbitrary.  This has nothing to do with the size of anyone's wallet based upon what I have heard, in fact, most of our well known member's who exhibit lots of cars have never even opined to us as far as I know.  Several of them are not even exhibiting cars anymore and have sold their collections for charitable reasons.  It comes down to the number of people who have spoken to the board and said it seems ridiculous that you make us wait.

 

As I have said before, no one is harmed by this change.  In this case everyone gets their cake and they can eat it.  If you feel you want to wait due to the location of the meet, family issues or whatever you can wait BUT if you really want to get it over in one year and can find the time to do it then what harm befalls another member?

 

That's my view, I had no vote and at first was skeptical but now I have had the benefit of hearing from people that they really appreciate the change.  How many will take advantage of it?  Don't know and quite frankly don't care if it means that the club  has made a fair and sensible decision on behalf of the majority of our members.

 

The one thing we have now is stats!  So, we will be easily able to tell if this skews the awards in any one direction ( I do not see that as being possible but we will see from attendance and winners at future Grand Nationals) So Jon is right about that portion of his post.

 

On the other issue:  The danger we all have is taking a specific moment in time, with specific people and stating that is the view of all members or the club.  Just because I have heard people talk about cars in the judged classes , HPOF and DPC cars and say something derogatory I know they do not speak for all.  I have never felt the need to criticize someone because they have their car professionally restored, trailer their cars to meets, or thirst for trophies.  As the other John has said this is a big and vast hobby and it has room for every type of hobbyist.  That's the beauty!  We all still love cars and whether they are being driven on tours or to the meet or arrive in a trailer they are still great cars owned by a lot of great people. 

 

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

It comes down to the number of people who have spoken to the board and said it seems ridiculous that you make us wait.

 

Carried to it's logical extreme why not have 3 teams of judges judge a car, in turn, at a show. The first for it's junior, the second for it's senior, and the third for it's GN. Do the score sheets in turn. Make the junior and go right to the senior sheets, make the senior go right to the GN sheets etc etc. Save all that hassle of having to wait.

Hell, Why the hassle of having to go to 3 awards banquets. Seems ridiculous! Give em all the TROPHYS at once. Near instant gratification. Who can argue against that?..............Bob

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)

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7 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

 

Carried to it's logical extreme why not have 3 teams of judges judge a car, in turn, at a show. The first for it's junior, the second for it's senior, and the third for it's GN. Do the score sheets in turn. Make the junior and go right to the senior sheets, make the senior go right to the GN sheets etc etc. Save all that hassle of having to wait.

Hell, Why the hassle of having to go to 3 awards banquets. Seems ridiculous! Give em all the TROPHYS at once. Near instant gratification. Who can argue against that?..............Bob

 

 

Thats ridiculous LOL  - just give everyone that shows a car a Grand National Senior Award at their first show and forget all the judging, etc.  The change of rules is what happens when we bend any rules just because they have to have everything right now. 

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I don't have my cars judged, but I think the 

Grand National rule change will benefit the

people who do.

 

Under the old rules:

Many people live where AACA isn't as active.

Suppose someone had just had his car reach

Senior status.  He wanted to try for the Grand National

Award, because there was a Grand National meet

close to him that same year, and since such meets

move all around the country, who knows when such

a close opportunity would occur again?  He couldn't

register his car that year.  His alternative:  drive 1000

miles to next year's meet, or wait maybe 10 years

for the Grand National meet to come close to him again.

 

Under the new rules:

Now he can.

I agree with Steve M. that there are no apparent downsides.

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I brought this up a few months back,,it,s 2200 mile round trip from Louisiana to Penn.

my car made senior in Nov 2015'

I would have liked to try for a GN award ,too far for me,

I ask this question again,who would it hurt if we had 5-10 percent of any national meet open to GN 

we did a meet in 2015 in Houma, as I remember we had  about 152 entrants,Galveston did one 2016

maybe less than 150 .Mobile did one in March 2018 ,maybe 125 entrants.I went to all three ,all were well done

I fully understand that the cars and people are mostly in N.E.

we need the folks from north ,but they don't need us to have a large meet.just saying!

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39 minutes ago, ols car dog said:

I ask this question again,who would it hurt if we had 5-10 percent of any national meet open to GN ?

 

That's a good and thought-provoking question, Car Dog.

Perhaps rather than having exclusively Grand National Meets,

could eligible cars win Grand National awards at regular national meets?

 

There would have to be judges for the Grand National judging;

but I myself can't see any disadvantages.  Can others?

Since national meets are scattered around the country

every year, your idea would open up Grand National possibilities for 

many of our more distant members.

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Having what would amount to one extra meet a year that allowed a Grand National is a suggestion not shared with the board in the past.  As they say, write your congressman!  Write our President or any other officer with a suggestion.  However, let me say this, we have had Grand Nationals in California, Minnesota, Independence, Tucson, Lebanon (TN), Moline, Shelbyville, New Bern, Topeka, Melbourne, Kalamazoo, Buffalo in just the last 15 years or so.  So we have moved around.  Next year the GN will be in Auburn. 

 

In the end, since we need boots on the ground we will need regions and chapters to sign up and be willing to orchestrate the event. 

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22 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Doug, it is still a ladder of success.  You still have to go and compete for the award.  The standard does not change.  We talk about it being a year but in many cases it really is only 7-9 months for some who get their senior at Hershey.  I have put a few cars through the system in the past and quite frankly in the same year or in the next year I would not expect it would make my job any harder to get the car ready to compete.  If I have restored a car properly from the start I know how to keep it ready for points judging whether it is one or two or three years or more!  After all, you also have the senior grand national to go after if you desire. Sorry, but I personally do not see that time diminishes or rewards in this case.  To my way of thinking we all strive to get as close to 400 points as we can and that does not change.

 

So the question the board fought over is the number of people who asked why make us wait a year?  It is arbitrary.  This has nothing to do with the size of anyone's wallet based upon what I have heard, in fact, most of our well known member's who exhibit lots of cars have never even opined to us as far as I know.  Several of them are not even exhibiting cars anymore and have sold their collections for charitable reasons.  It comes down to the number of people who have spoken to the board and said it seems ridiculous that you make us wait.

 

As I have said before, no one is harmed by this change.  In this case everyone gets their cake and they can eat it.  If you feel you want to wait due to the location of the meet, family issues or whatever you can wait BUT if you really want to get it over in one year and can find the time to do it then what harm befalls another member?

 

That's my view, I had no vote and at first was skeptical but now I have had the benefit of hearing from people that they really appreciate the change.  How many will take advantage of it?  Don't know and quite frankly don't care if it means that the club  has made a fair and sensible decision on behalf of the majority of our members.

 

The one thing we have now is stats!  So, we will be easily able to tell if this skews the awards in any one direction ( I do not see that as being possible but we will see from attendance and winners at future Grand Nationals) So Jon is right about that portion of his post.

 

On the other issue:  The danger we all have is taking a specific moment in time, with specific people and stating that is the view of all members or the club.  Just because I have heard people talk about cars in the judged classes , HPOF and DPC cars and say something derogatory I know they do not speak for all.  I have never felt the need to criticize someone because they have their car professionally restored, trailer their cars to meets, or thirst for trophies.  As the other John has said this is a big and vast hobby and it has room for every type of hobbyist.  That's the beauty!  We all still love cars and whether they are being driven on tours or to the meet or arrive in a trailer they are still great cars owned by a lot of great people. 

 

 

 

Steve, What you are saying does completely make the subject more understandable Thanks....The only difference the choice makes is the time frame which will only work if you have a real nice restoration that makes it to the Grand National in the same year and doesn't require any major changes to the vehicle that can't get done in that same year to get that Grand National award...I did notice one thing in the 3 years I have been showing, I received 2 Preservation awards before I got my First Grand National this year, some of that was because I was not able to get the first junior or the senior in the same year so I had to wait till the 3rd year to go to my first Grand National.

 

My question is: Does it make any more difference having been judged more times before the First Grand National having More Judges eyes see the vehicle and possibly find more details that should be addressed, I found that having my truck thru 2 more shows because I had to wait for the following year helped because the judges pointed out some details that helped me get my First Grand National Award, if I could have done it all that 1st Year that would have been real difficult with the detail changes on my Truck and Time & Money. Having said that the Old Way worked best for me to get my truck thru to the First Grand National Award, which is Quite an achievement, I feel very fortunate to be able attend an AACA event and Show our Truck, Not everyone can Say or Do that.... 

 

All in All in the End it's been Very Fun going to the AACA Shows and meeting Good People that share the same Passion with Older Automobiles...I wouldn't trade it for nothing..... STEVE M

Edited by Rooney3100 (see edit history)

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"I did notice one thing in the 3 years I have been showing, I received 2 Preservation awards before I got my First Grand National this year".... so my natural question would be why would this be any different then attending two extra Grand National shows and getting a preservation award since you still needed to upgrade your vehicle.  You are allowed to go to more than one.  It will cost you an additional $10 for each show but what if you HAD made it the first time.  Again, in this situation no one is injured, no one is losing anything and SOME will gain.  Just because we have always done it one way does not make it the right way.  The board heard from members and a director made the motion to fix the problem. 

 

The reason for the rule in the first place was to try and keep members active another year.  It was a sensible reason but maybe not what was in the best interest of the member,  Hopefully, we can still keep members showing by having new and great locations to visit and to continue to get a Senior and a repeat senior.  The club (the board) has got to make our events better so people will want to attend.  That is what the board has been discussing.

 

Your last paragraph says it all and that is the most important thing you have said.  Congratulations on your awards and please stay active and speak your opinions! Oh and since I am chairman, come to the Grand National at Auburn! It will be special I guarantee you.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

"I did notice one thing in the 3 years I have been showing, I received 2 Preservation awards before I got my First Grand National this year".... so my natural question would be why would this be any different then attending two extra Grand National shows and getting a preservation award since you still needed to upgrade your vehicle.  You are allowed to go to more than one.  It will cost you an additional $10 for each show but what if you HAD made it the first time.  Again, in this situation no one is injured, no one is losing anything and SOME will gain.  Just because we have always done it one way does not make it the right way.  The board heard from members and a director made the motion to fix the problem. 

 

The reason for the rule in the first place was to try and keep members active another year.  It was a sensible reason but maybe not what was in the best interest of the member,  Hopefully, we can still keep members showing by having new and great locations to visit and to continue to get a Senior and a repeat senior.  The club (the board) has got to make our events better so people will want to attend.  That is what the board has been discussing.

 

Your last paragraph says it all and that is the most important thing you have said.  Congratulations on your awards and please stay active and speak your opinions! Oh and since I am chairman, come to the Grand National at Auburn! It will be special I guarantee you.

 

 

Steve, Thanks for answering my question, just getting to a Grand National Meet is an achievement having to get past the 1st Junior and a Senior...

My Wife and I already have our room booked for next years Auburn IN Grand National Meet, It will be special for us for sure....We will be retired by the end of this year.....:)

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Just my thoughts about previous Posts starting with Bob's #30 and others suggesting awarding Jr. Sr. and Grand National at one time.

 

How would one register a Car to Show for the first time at one Meet, entering in Jr., Sr. and GN?  Would not it require 3 entry forms and 3 separate entry fee's considering that the Club would potentially be awarding 3 Trophies at the same time? Also, the entry Sheet, Judges Score Sheet and after wards the Winners  List, would need to show the car 3 times. The Judging might be confusing as well. Wouldn't it be necessary to Judge the Car 3 times at each level by 3 separate groups of Judges to put it in the same status as a Car judged at three separate Meets that year or at one Meet over a period of years where the Judges are not the same? 

Edited by Doug Novak
Clearfication (see edit history)

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"You can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time."

  That being said, we are a "checkbook restorer". We did/do not have the time nor expertise nor adequate space to properly restore a vehicle to it's former glory. We are the third owners of the vehicle, and it has never been out of the family. It was my wife's "Daddy's car". We will never recoup the money we put into it, nor do we expect to. It was restored for sentimental reasons and probably will only be sold upon both of our deaths. So what if it has taken First Junior, Senior, and Grand National. Does it improve the value of the vehicle ? YES, but only if you had any intention of selling it in the first place. It's "bragging rights", because if you do sell it, the award doesn't go with the vehicle. It's back to "square one" for the new owner, it's a "former" winner. If my wife's father were alive, he would both call us idiots for spending the amount we did, and be elated for what it looks like now. We have taken quite a few trophies over the past two years in local shows, and thought it would be neat to enter in an AACA sanctioned meet to see what would happen on a national/(International ?) level. We won a First Junior at Gettysburg. Had a few point deductions, most of them corrected, and were thinking of entering for Senior at Hershey; but other commitments have precluded that. We are looking forward to Parsippany, N.J. in 2019. Members of our local chapter are trying to find bias ply tires to loan us for that Meet. This alone shows how other members of AACA will help if a car has a shot at winning. If we win a Senior, so be it. If not, we have competed at a National level and are content that our vehicle was eligible at that level. If we win a Senior, will we go for Grand National ? We'll see. Personally, I have learned an immense amount about the Tri-Fives, the 56's in particular, and continue to learn. The one thing about the Meet's, you are not competing against the other vehicles, you are actually competing against yourself. You are being held to a STANDARD ! All three in one season ? Who REALLY cares ? One just doesn't have to clean that often.   

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On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 1:39 AM, 56ChevyGuy said:

" You are being held to a STANDARD ! All three in one season ? Who REALLY cares ? One just doesn't have to clean that often.   

Keeping that Standard is the main reason in all of this from the beginning of the restoration to the Last AACA show the vehicle gets judged in.....The AACA shows TO ME, help take all the Headaches AWAY I went thru to restore our truck, We are finally enjoying what was accomplished in the restoration by sharing it with others that have the same passion in these old Vehicles, there is so much more I hope to explore by either doing Tours or just venturing out here locally, Oh and maybe judging also,  I'm sure everyone in this club goes thru this with there restorations over time, I'm finding this out talking and watching others at every Meet.........:) 

 

Edited by Rooney3100 (see edit history)

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