PreWarQc

Pre war cars insane prices

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8 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

Bill, I have followed this thread from the start and I have not seen anything suggesting the OP is self centered or has a convoluted sense of entitlement. 

 

I thought the same thing.

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6 hours ago, poci1957 said:

 

Hey PreWarQc, great to see a guy interested in the "nickel" era.  I do not own a 1920s car but historically have always thought this period was a very interesting time.  In the old car world it is also a place for bargains as the cars of, say, 1915-1927 are now rather overlooked as you probably know.  Consider our earlier advice to join a relevant club like the AACA (or the VMCCA or Horseless Carriage Club which I am less familiar with).  Remember what some of us said about club members selling to club members.  Meet some local car people too and let them help you in your search.  There should be few also looking for 1920s cars unless you befriend a speculator looking to buy and "flip" such a car for quick profit (but he should be able to find an easier target).  Go to shows and study the club magazines and bargains will begin to appear.  Be selective, you may end up with more possibilities than you expect.  Hold out for the best car you can afford but do remember that the owner of a 1920s car cannot be totally hands off.  Even with a previously restored car you will need to have space and capability to perform some maintenance that local mechanics will be totally unfamiliar with, there will not likely be a guy in your neighborhood to help fix your vacuum tank.  Good luck, Todd C        

 

Very interesting reply, thank you.

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It's curious that whenever someone runs for the Board of the Buick Club, they stress the need to get young people involved. There are also numerous threads on the topic.

 

But, as soon as someone suggests the lack of young people in the hobby will send prices down, we get all these first-hand accounts of how there are plenty of youths. 

 

Edited by Buick64C (see edit history)
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5 hours ago, Dynaflash8 said:

I don't quite understand what you are talking about.

You can all do me a big favor, and contact your local NBC,ABC and CBS stations, and ask them to tell the story about what happened in Star Idaho. Also, is there a Wayne Cadman on this forum? 

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1 hour ago, Buffalowed Bill said:

Sad to say what strikes me about this young man's narrative, is his self centered, convoluted sense of entitlement. My take is that he is asking me (us) to pass on a car that I have, for a value much less then market. His only provocation for this seems to be that I have the car and he wants it, and that I'm old and will dye soon, and he is young and can enjoy it more then I can, and he wants it right now. Not only does he want a car for less then market, but he wants a car that he can use right away, and one that he doesn't have to do any work to.

 

I'm speaking for myself, I don't sell my cars vary often, but when I do it is because the buyer willing to pay market value, and is a person who has earned my respect. This means that by deed or action they have shown that they are willing to maintain the car as I would, or are willing to take the car to the next level.  If I pass on a car for less then what I think that it is worth, it has to be to a friend. In other words, the new owner has had to have paid his dues. I don't see this young man's willingness to do this on any level. It will be interesting to find out if this gentleman is able to find what he is looking for.

 

I’m not going to debate why what you just laid out is completely off the tracks. But one thing is for sure, I don’t care about your car, I don’t want it… you want to insult me because I’m hesitant in spending my hard-earned money? How is that something bad? It does not affect you whether I buy a pre-war or not so what is the problem? If you die, I’m not going to rejoice in the fact that I’m going to get a cheap deal, I’d rather have no car and see you in perfect health and enjoy your car… by God, this is the truth. Do you really think I wish people die so that prices come down? That’s just insane... I’ve seen a lot of people die, enough to know that death is not an old man/woman thing… it’s a human thing. I know from experience that I can die much sooner than you can… its very very possible. Do you think I worry about the deal someone will make on my Ford Flex or my Jetta if I pass and resent them for the deal they’ll have because of my passing? Come on, you can be wiser than that.

I’m sure you wrote that without really thinking about it or in a bubble of anxiety towards God knows what. But be at peace, honestly, its ok.

No harm no foul.

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I don't know how old your kids are but you need to be laying some groundwork so that they go Ooh and A ah and think dad getting some old weird car is the coolest thing. Take them round the Science and Tech museum in Ottawa, particularly on Open Doors Ottawa weekends that you get to go in the storage areas. Ask them what they would buy! You might be surprised by how enthused they get and it all helps your case when you finally find something that fits all your criteria.

Good luck!

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3 hours ago, playswithbrass said:

I don't know how old your kids are but you need to be laying some groundwork so that they go Ooh and A ah and think dad getting some old weird car is the coolest thing. Take them round the Science and Tech museum in Ottawa, particularly on Open Doors Ottawa weekends that you get to go in the storage areas. Ask them what they would buy! You might be surprised by how enthused they get and it all helps your case when you finally find something that fits all your criteria.

Good luck!

 

I did not know there was a car exposition in the Science and Tech museum in Ottawa! Do they have cars from the pre-war era? I went on their web site and only saw cars from the 50’s. I know my kids love cars from the 50’s since I’ve owned one a couple of years ago and they loved it. Especially the fact that they could take a ride without a seatbelt.

Thanks!

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2 hours ago, mike6024 said:

Image result for Mary Hitchings MacksImage result for Mary Hitchings MacksImage result for Mary Hitchings Macks

 

My neighbors, Hitchings Lumber, Mary Hitchings and her husband, I forgot his name, had all these Mack trucks parked in their lumber yard, unused for decades. I thought someone should buy one, put it back on the road. I'd buy one. Never even bothered to ask. But bought wood from them many times. And it was told to me at some point later on, by Mary herself, some people would ask if trucks were for sale and if so how much for one, and she'd tell them a million dollars. Since she passed, and her husband preceded her, they all got sold off at an auction. She got to enjoy looking at them sitting there in the yard until the end of life, I suppose was the point of keeping them.

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/29581-h-model/         http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/33856-mary-hitchings/

 

Hoarding makes some people feel secure I guess. What can be said, if it works for them…

The trucks in the bushes (from the links) are really nice.

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3 hours ago, playswithbrass said:

I don't know how old your kids are but you need to be laying some groundwork so that they go Ooh and A ah and think dad getting some old weird car is the coolest thing. Take them round the Science and Tech museum in Ottawa, particularly on Open Doors Ottawa weekends that you get to go in the storage areas. Ask them what they would buy! You might be surprised by how enthused they get and it all helps your case when you finally find something that fits all your criteria.

Good luck!

My two grandsons have no interest in old cars! They are 10 and 11 and snow board free style competitively. As for what they would buy is a wakeboard boat.

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19 hours ago, PreWarQc said:

 

Hoarding makes some people feel secure I guess. What can be said, if it works for them…

The trucks in the bushes (from the links) are really nice.

 

It's over for me, he threw out Hoarding, tells you were his mind is at. Bob 

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2 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

But he hasn't broken Godwin's Law yet so he's still in the debate. ?

 

I am surprised that I had to Google that. I guess I will need to remember that for some of the political discussions that occur on facebook.

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6 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Well, I'm wrapping it up and taking my Wife out to dinner in the BMW. The new vanity plate looks great!

 

_cfimg7531869775971590799.PNG.ab0c33fc3b4a1ce01d9d6161776245db.PNG

 

You're SO bad. ?

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Well yes, that picture and the fact that they'd never let anything go, is the definition of hoarding. Whether you want to or not, Bob.

I'm happy this has been entertaining for you all.

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17 minutes ago, padgett said:

Think we have achieved Sturgeon's Law.

We're at least 90% of the way there....

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Think we have achieved Sturgeon's Law.

 

 

Never cared for caviar anyway............................................

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:19 AM, PreWarQc said:

Well, I have red all your posts (except 1) and I understand and even agree with some of the information that is conveyed. And yes, nobody knows what the future holds and the prices could drop less than what I predict. I might be wrong, but I see more evidence behind my perspective; the biggest one being the absence of interest from people under 60. But I do agree with the fact that younger guys might have a change in taste when it comes to collector cars as they grow older. It’s a big leap from having interests in a, let say Toyota Supra to a 1920 Chandler, but it is possible. And yes, the pre 42’ cars get fewer and fewer because some are not kept in running order, and none are obviously build, so the supply does get smaller every year. But don’t forget that the market is getting fed from the top also. Fox body Mustangs are now collector cars so are a lot of cars from the 80’s-90’s… Camaro, VW Golf, BMW, Acura, Toyota Supra, Celica... and the list goes on. There are a lot of those cars on the market, and young guys are really into them. Also, don’t forget that younger guys have in general, less interest in cars, are more in debt and have less disposable income than older generations.

What I was truly hoping to do here was to debunk what I was thinking and build a case to justify a potential 20k transaction but it really did the opposite for me. In hindsight I think it was foolish of me to think that guys who own and have invested a lot of money in those cars would have a discussion about a possible crash in the market. I appreciate those who were able to cross over their personal interest in the market and try and make a neutral analysis of what I was writing. I honestly hope the market holds and wish none of you lose any money. Above all, I wish that most of these cars will still be around in 20+ years. I am far too conservative to join the party at this stage of the market. I will still be thrilled when I go to museums and car shows and I’ll continue to enjoy them that way. I will obviously stay in the market but I’ll buy something more affordable, I’m probably poorer than I thought if I’m not willing to put 20k on something I love because I’m too worried about its value…

 

 

I am new to the AACA over the last few weeks so I just ran across this thread yesterday and it is interesting.  So much anecdotal information and thoughts based on local perceptions that no conclusion could ever be made on this topic.  I am a gen X'er and well under the age of 71.  I just got into this 'hobby' about a year and half ago and posted my start in the another thread.  I started with a 31 Model A and fell in love and then added two more early pre war cars this year.  Here are my thoughts and perceptions as well as anecdotal information to date.  

 

1. I did not look at the purchase of any of my cars as an investment.  I purchased them all because I fell in love with them, thought about what I wanted to do with them, and purchased each one for that reason.  Why do you buy a new modern car?  You know that as soon as you drive off the lot it will lose 25% of it's value, yet people do it.  Why do you invest in a big education at the best schools for your kids?  The new ROI numbers on that are showing that it takes 30 years to pay back the initial investment on those high priced schools in today world, yet again people continue to do this.  The point is, that if you take a complete ROI view on anything you will never end up getting anything you may want or enjoy because you are too worried about what your return on investment will be!  Yes of course you do need to be smart with your money but with cars and other hobbies you should also look at return on your time (ROT), return on your fun (ROF) and return on your sanity (ROS).  

 

2. I joined the local Model A club and yes there are a lot of older members in the club.  The other side of that is that we have added 4 gen x'ers to the club over the last 18 months. We also do see the Gen X's bringing their kids on the meetings and tours as well.  Now not everyone wants to go to clubs or meetings these days, but after I purchased my Model A I found out that there were 3 other gen X'ers in my neighborhood that owned model A's.  One of them inherited it and 3 of us purchased ours.  There are younger people purchasing these cars but they are not into clubs and gatherings as much because of time commitments.  Heck, I am in the club but I cannot keep up with the people who are retired and all of the lunches, tours, and get togethers.  I probably attend 33% of what goes on in the club.  So you cannot use club membership, participation on tours, etc. to gauge whether young people like the hobby or pre war cars.  

 

3.  As far as the hypothesis that there will be no one to buy pre war cars in the future, I doubt it.  You will always have three types of people in cars, 1. the ones that want the best, have a lot of disposable income to buy the best, and are diversifying their portfolios as they have already invested in art, wine, etc. 2. The people that want to have the car, to work on it, take it to shows, have it judged, etc. and 3. the person that wants to have an old car to drive around, show it in the neighborhood and that's about it.  My own observation and from talking to people is that I see the categories of number 1 and number 3 increasing while number 2 is decreasing.  I will admit it, I do not have much interest at all in having my car judged by someone and telling me if it is 100% correct or not.  I really just want cars that I can enjoy, drive, take to some shows, share the car and knowledge with others and things like that.  I also cant wait to get my 1913 out for some HCCA tours.  To me it is all about having some fun, getting out there with the cars, and escaping the high paced anxiety ridden modern world.  

 

4.  As far as purchasing a pre war car, I have purchased three in the last 18 months.  I bought one from a classic car dealer (there are many in Michigan), one from a private party, and one from an auction.  All three experiences were very pleasant and I thought I got each car at a fair value after I did research on each one.  Now for the auction, I acquired the 1913 Cole from a museum and the other three bidders on the car were all Gen X'ers and the car went for well over the reserve.  Also, I still talk to the classic car dealer where I purchased my Model A and they have sold 10 Model A's over the past 8 months.  Also, we had someone pass away in our local Model A club and they had a nice Model A sedan that had some special  attributes to it and the other members of the club thought the asking price was way too high.  Well, it ended up selling for full price to someone in Germany.  We have to remember that it is a global market and there are becoming many people around the world that have quite a bit of disposable income and shipping is relatively simple now.  Essentially we cant just look at anecdotal observations locally and think that this is representative of the global market place.  

 

5.  I love to go to the local car shows and cruise ins with my pre war cars and I will tell you that my cars have received more attention than many of the other cars there and I always have a crowd around them.  I took my 1922 Maxwell to a show called the Wilson Barn show that had over 400 cars.  I was parked right next to a 1992 Mustang 5.0 on one side, a 1962 Corvette on the other side and across the row from me was a 1985 Chrysler New Yorker and then a 1976 VW Bus.  There were probably less than 10 pre war cars there in total.  People of all ages stopped by and wanted to learn more about the car, take their picture with the car, find out more about owning a car like that, etc.  My favorite conversation of the whole show was with three young millennials about how the 31" wheels were so cool and they thought big rims on cars was a modern thing!  Well at the awards the Maxwell won the top 5 peoples choice awards which was done by people voting on their top 5 favorite cars at the show.  I also had a similar situation with my Model A where it won the people's choice award at another local car show with 200 cars.  I am finding that people love these cars and want to learn more about it.  Everywhere I take them they put a smile on people's faces, and most of all they put a smile on mine!

 

Overall, my experiences and observations have been almost the opposite of yours.  The market, the hobby, and what people are doing with their pre war cars is evolving but that doesn't mean that things are going to crash.  This happens every generation and if there were forums and social media decades ago we would probably be able to search a very similar conversation!

 

Good luck to you on your journey and the personal decisions that only you can make.  

Edited by kfle (see edit history)
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Great post kfle!

 

Hope the OP has success as well.  I would only add it sometimes seems the same folks complaining about softening prices want to buy a car at 50% off retail when they are buying.  This is a generalization NOT directed at OP, really more an observation on two persistant topics here and elsewhere, buyers concerned about high prices on prewar cars and sellers concerned about low prices on prewar cars.  Everyone would like to buy junk and sell antiques but the truth of thd matter is ones own outlook will determine their satisfaction with a given deal in most cases. Your outlook is spot on, imho.  

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25 minutes ago, Steve_Mack_CT said:

sometimes seems the same folks complaining about softening prices want to buy a car at 50% off retail when they are buying.

 

I brim over with generalizations. Sometimes, if it wasn't for double standards, there would be no standards at all.

 

My Father said it best "Don't let them take the car until you get the money. And don't give them the money until you take the car." A lesson that carries over to other aspects of life.

 

Bernie

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Yeah getting to be a pretty well worn topic, but each persons situation is different.  Like the other active post on this from a potential buyer.  Guy has a very specific car in mind and yet he  makes a pretty general sweeping  inquiry about the market.  Not interested in discussing pretty close comps, not flexible on model, year or condition it seems. So, Imho he just needs to keep looking in hopes of striking a satisfactory deal should the exact rear and bodystyle become available.  Its a situational decision and unrelated to prices of other cars, other than that, I cannot help him, right?  Not sure how collective knowledge, or even opinion helps in these situations. 

 

It has been said people generally want approval not advice.  My new advice is simple, if the car speaks to you follow your gut... ?

Edited by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)
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