PreWarQc

Pre war cars insane prices

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Here we go again.  Someone starts a thread, gets opinions and answers from experts—answers they don’t like—and instead of simply considering the information and moving on, they get defensive.  

Edited by 39BuickEight (see edit history)
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13 minutes ago, PreWarQc said:

 

As I have mentioned, I have been to many meets with my previous cars and I have never seen a guy under 65 with a pre 1942 car. I know a guy who knows someone in his 20’s who has a Model T but it was after his grand father passed away and he got it true his estate, I don’t think he still has it. When I had my Hudson Hornet I would meet with guys with 50’s car and at that time I was 33… No one was near my age. The youngest guy was in his late 50’s. I don’t mind being with older people but to pretend that young guys are numerous in being interested in pre war (even pre 70’s) car is not being honest. Of course, there are some... but not nearly enough to keep the prices up in the long run.

 

 

 

Either you are going to the wrong types of meets or you live in the wrong place. I am under 65 and have owned pre-war cars for over two decades. I have lots of friends who are older and most of them own later antique cars. I know multiple local people younger than me who own pre-war cars here. Maybe you just need to move to the Southeastern United States. To accuse me of "not being honest" based only on the hobbyists you have seen in your particular part of Canada is really a very bad way to try to get people to respond positively to your thoughts. The world is a lot bigger place than you seem to realize. Things are not the same everywhere. 

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11 minutes ago, 39BuickEight said:

Here we go again.  Someone starts a thread, gets opinions and answers from experts—answers they don’t like—and instead of simply considering the information and moving on, they get defensive.  

 

Wrong... I wanted a discussion, not unidirectional comments with no substance from ''experts''. Or guys trying to sell me their cars.

 

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Wow. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings.

 

However, you earned it. People showed you examples of cars that disproved your theory, you said they were too expensive and you complained repeatedly that sellers were not reasonable and were not being realistic regarding market values. I merely suggested that it was perhaps you who had the perception problem.

 

You told another poster that you wanted a nice pre-war car with no needs at $5000, which isn't likely. You mentioned the other cars that you have owned after I posted, so I didn't see the extent of your collection. Until that point, you were acting like a newcomer with no previous knowledge (or a troll, which isn't unprecedented around here). If you are the experienced hobbyist you are claiming to be, you wouldn't be wondering the things you're wondering. Why are Hemi Coronets so expensive when I could buy one in 1973 for $500? Gas is getting expensive, so my theory is that Hemi Coronets will get less expensive because nobody will want them. These are variations of your reasoning and they are just as flawed. If I presented them to this crowd and whinged about my inability to own one at current prices, I would expect more knowledgeable people to point out my error.

 

I thought I saw you say you lived in Montreal. I didn't assume, I thought I read it. Apologies there, I was mistaken. I certainly didn't mean to imply anything by it other than pointing out that you should understand that stuff costs money and some things cost more than others. Where you live makes little difference, but my thought was that if you lived in Montreal, you'd understand the relationship between value and price and that it's not a straight dollar proposition. (EDIT: Your location under your name says "Montreal")

 

Regardless of any of this, you acted like you were bewildered by inflation and stymied by a lack of funds, and wanted to whine about it rather than do something. My point (and others') was simply that sitting on your hands and doing nothing while the clock ticks away is a great way to live your life full of frustration and regret. Treating money like it's more important than time is common, but still sad. I don't know you and I spent more time caring about your situation than I should have. After the first few replies, I decided you were just another troll trying to wind us up. 

 

Enjoy the hobby any way you like. But don't tell us that things are too expensive when your budget is isn't realistic in the 2018 market. Value is subjective, true, but once again, the chances of finding a perfect pre-war car for under $5000 are pretty slim and that makes your assertions unrealistic. Sitting on the sidelines and whiling away the years hoping that your theory that nobody will want them and prices will drop is counter-productive if you're serious about owning a pre-war car. But go ahead, you be you, bro. Once again, a Quebecois lives up to the stereotype. Nice job.

 

Bottom line: if you're going to come in and treat us like chumps, don't expect us to like it. Welcome to the ignore list.

 

PS: I'm 48 and have owned my 1941 Buick since I was 31 and my 1929 Cadillac since I was 40. I did not inherit them or fall accidentally into them. I have wanted them since I was a child and I do not aspire to own post-war cars. I suspect I am not alone. Someone will always own the cars. Someone else will want to to buy them.

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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36 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

Either you are going to the wrong types of meets or you live in the wrong place. I am under 65 and have owned pre-war cars for over two decades. I have lots of friends who are older and most of them own later antique cars. I know multiple local people younger than me who own pre-war cars here. Maybe you just need to move to the Southeastern United States. To accuse me of "not being honest" based only on the hobbyists you have seen in your particular part of Canada is really a very bad way to try to get people to respond positively to your thoughts. The world is a lot bigger place than you seem to realize. Things are not the same everywhere. 

 

You might be right up to a certain point as in I am willing to believe more young guys own pre 42 cars than I think in other areas, but I am sure they are not numerous enough to make a significant difference on the overall market. And ''not being honest'' was not the way I wanted to phrase that but my english is far from being perfect and I made a mistake in the translation... so I am sorry. I tought it was more on the lines of ''not being realistic'' the way I phrased it but I see my mistake.

 

I came here hoping to have my mind made up to buy a pre war by getting arguments about why these cars will retain a good portion of their value in the long term but instead it seems like it gave me the opposite drive. I think I'll get back in the Air-cooled VW or something like that...

Good luck y'all...

Edited by PreWarQc
May not be true (see edit history)

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20 minutes ago, MCHinson said:

 

Either you are going to the wrong types of meets or you live in the wrong place. I am under 65 and have owned pre-war cars for over two decades. I have lots of friends who are older and most of them own later antique cars. I know multiple local people younger than me who own pre-war cars here. Maybe you just need to move to the Southeastern United States. To accuse me of "not being honest" based only on the hobbyists you have seen in your particular part of Canada is really a very bad way to try to get people to respond positively to your thoughts. The world is a lot bigger place than you seem to realize. Things are not the same everywhere. 

Actually on this particular point I think the Gent from Quebec may be close to the truth. I have also observed that apart from the "rat Rod" group there is a lot more gray hair within the Pre War ranks than people on the young side of fifty. The trend may have some geographic variation however I don't think by all that much.

 

Greg in Canada

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4 minutes ago, PreWarQc said:

 

You might be right up to a certain point as in I am willing to believe more young guys own pre 42 cars than I think in other areas, but I am sure they are not numerous enough to make a significant difference on the overall market. And ''not being honest'' was not the way I wanted to phrase that but my english is far from being perfect and I made a mistake in the translation... so I am sorry. I tought it was more on the lines of ''not being realistic'' the way I phrased it but I see my mistake.

 

This is the last post I write and/or read. I came here hoping to have my mind made up to buy a pre war by getting arguments about why these cars will retain a good portion of their value in the long term but instead it seems like it gave me the opposite drive. I think I'll get back in the Air-cooled VW or something like that...

Good luck y'all...

 

My best memory without reading each post and counting them is that the majority of the posts were made by people who have real life experience in the pre-war hobby and tried to convince you that your belief that their value is going to tank substantially at some time in the future and thus make buying one a bad idea is totally wrong. Simply put, real life experience tells me that you are wrong. If you want to own a pre-war car, buy one. If you want to complain about the market, I guess you can complain about the market.  

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2 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

Actually on this particular point I think the Gent from Quebec may be close to the truth. I have also observed that apart from the "rat Rod" group there is a lot more gray hair within the Pre War ranks than people on the young side of fifty. The trend may have some geographic variation however I don't think by all that much.

 

Greg in Canada

 

I never said that there are more young people with these cars than older people, but he said that he has never seen anyone under 65 with a pre-war car. I have owned pre-war cars pretty much continually since before I was 37.

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Probably a little late, if the OP stays away as he threatened.  But I do not understand WHY folks seem to want to always make money or break even on an old car. It is a hobby, folks. For me, any way.  My brother, an avid fisherman, certainly never made money on his fishing boats. Nor on the new truck to tow same.  Golfers , I'll bet ,don't worry about making money on their clubs and carts. And no one has ever made money on a new car, except the dealer.  So why on an old car?

 

  OP wanting an old car for $5000.00 not thinking clearly.  Someone GIVE one to him. A $500.00 to a $1000.00 car and see if HE would part with it for $5000.00 after HE gets it reliable. Dollar to a donut, answer is NO.

 

  My .02 worth.

 

  Ben

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If ANYONE finds a "needs no work" 30's or 40's car for 5k he won't get it because it will be setting in my shop except for when I'm driving the h!ll out of it.

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1 minute ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Probably a little late, if the OP stays away as he threatened.  But I do not understand WHY folks seem to want to always make money or break even on an old car. It is a hobby, folks. For me, any way.  My brother, an avid fisherman, certainly never made money on his fishing boats. Nor on the new truck to tow same.  Golfers , I'll bet ,don't worry about making money on their clubs and carts. And no one has ever made money on a new car, except the dealer.  So why on an old car?

 

  OP wanting an old car for $5000.00 not thinking clearly.  Someone GIVE one to him. A $500.00 to a $1000.00 car and see if HE would part with it for $5000.00 after HE gets it reliable. Dollar to a donut, answer is NO.

 

  My .02 worth.

 

  Ben

 

Nah... I edited that part, I don't know, I'll keep wandering around a bit more but won't answer to idiotic responses.

Why do you say I wanted a 5000$ car? Where did you read that? I never wrote that and never even wrote that I wanted to buy a car... not here, not now. Do people here really read the posts or they just look at a few words and think they get the gist of it and reply pretty much anything that pop true their head.

My first post(S) clearly show that I'm taking in suggestions from everybody... even if people are a) not answeing my question b) trying to sell me a car I never asked for. After people start to tell me I'm complaining... well... yes, this was the goal of the whole thread... I find the pre war cars expensive in respect to the futur value that will most likely decline a lot and I ask people why this is so? That is all... but people like conflict it seems and I can't help but to defend myself.

 

And if you bought a 500$ or 1000$ and got it reliable it does not matter what you want for it, the only thing that matters is what the market is willing to pay for it. It could be 50k, it could be 500$. And I'm ok with that, my concern is that owners hold on to their cars because they don't get their price (and this is not a problem)... the problem is that in the long term, they will have no choice but to sell (because everybody gets old and or sick) and since most owners are in the same age group, this will pretty much all happen in a short time frame and then the market will get saturated, the old buyers will not be buying and the young guys will not be there to buy... and then, prices drop, a lot.

By that time, I and other guys like me will have moved on to other cars. My guess is that when that happens, a lot of cars will get sold overseas.

Its ok with me if prices are high and stay high... I would buy one in that scenario. But the most likely scenario is that they will be of very little worth in at most 10 years time.

 

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If you wait until the bottom of the market falls out on antique cars what is your plan. Car clubs will be a thing of the past. Private car museums will close their doors. Restoration shops will close for lack of customers. Cruise nights you will be sitting there alone being asked to move along. Swap meets will be extremely small or non-existent. If you by a T or A places like Snyder's and Lang's will have closed for not enough sales. All of the least desirable cars will be scraped for $125. a ton. The storage bill may have greater value than your old car. Yes you bought a 1931 Packard roadster for the bargain price of $5,000. and it just sits there. Having no advocates fighting for the old car hobby and the government passed a pollution law that you can not drive it. Now you can not even get your $5,000. back. After waiting all these years to get a good deal on a pre war car that you can no longer drive. People do not realise the whole picture if antique car prices tank. So do it now while you can enjoy it along with the hobby. 

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On 6/4/2018 at 5:02 PM, PreWarQc said:

Pre war car market for at least 10 years now and I tought price would have come down slowly, I never expected this!

8000$ for a REO with no wheels, no top, extremly rusted and has not started since the 50's.

when I started it was with a pile of parts and after years ''6 '' it was done  -- one inch at a time . It will work just start .what state do you live in ? 

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OK, OP, I won't consider you a prospect for buying any of my cars, either before or after I croak.  No skin off my nose.  It seems that you are absolutely CERTAIN that there will be a major drop in pre-war prices during your lifetime, and you're unhappy that it hasn't happened yet so you can scarf up a bargain NOW for immediate gratification and immediate validation of your theory.  Well, there are players in the stock market who have had the same degree of certainty about the future of the commodities that they play with, and you should check their performance records.

 

What if you're WRONG, even VERY VERY wrong?  How can you hedge your bets?  Find a car that interests you which you will keep for the joy of it even if its market value drops 90%, one you delight in so much that you consider the expense of the car entertainment.  Think of it as the throw-away entertainment money you take to a casino....

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PreWarQc,

Supply and demand are always in play. While you seem to see the demand dropping to almost nothing, I see the demand ebbing and flowing over the years. The supply can only decrease. They are not making any new pre-war cars.

 

Some people see a glass as half full, some see it as half empty, you seem to see it as I will wait until the glass is almost empty to buy it cheap. I still can't understand your logic. Perhaps you just do not have enough life experience to see a more hopeful potential future. I have old friends and young friends. Twenty years ago, there were fewer young people in the hobby in my area than there are now. Your views do not reflect my real life experiences and observations in the old car hobby, at least in the US. I have never been to Canada. Maybe the future for the old car hobby is bleak there. I don't know. 

 

If you are not a member, join a local antique car club. They will know what is happening in your particular area regarding pre-war cars. With the right attitude, you will make a lot of great friends. People in antique car clubs often sell cars cheaper to their car club friends than someone who they don't know. Many of those cars never even get advertised. That is the real secret to buying an antique car.  

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You make an assumption that the market is high or at its peak, and others may think its at the bottom. IMHO, it is foolish to try predict the future.

 

Also, young guys get old too, so their interests change. I am a classic exmaple of this, I would  never of thought of getting into the vintage car market in my 20's or 30's but now that I am in my 40's my interests changed from muscle cars to vintage cars.

 

 

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I bought a 1926 Cadillac when I was 19... a 1929 Rolls Royce just before my 21st birthday a 1910 REO when I was 22 or 23. The Cadillac was the often disparaged "4-door sedan". The Rolls had been taken apart in a barn 20 years earlier while the REO had been a sign in front of a nightclub. With the singular exception of two friends of mine, brothers, in fact, we were THE ONLY 20-sometings we knew that had prewar cars - and that was 40 years ago. I seriously doubt that much has changed. Most people seem to get interested in earlier cars in their middle years and strangely, there always seem to be replacements coming up for the those that pass on. 

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For me the pre- war cars that I would like to own, and even as recently as a decade ago probably could have owned had I not been up to my eyeballs in mortgage debt at the time are things like Nickle era Stutz, Marmon, Kissel, and similar cars. They still don't cost the earth, however they have in my observation and experience generally at least doubled in price over about the last decade. In other words significantly outpaced my ability to pay which  has been quite without increase over the same decade.

 I would also like to know why these cars have more or less doubled. They are reasonably rare, however they are off the mainstream enough that I am sure ownership is a bit of a challenge. There are certainly no old car parts venders offering "out of the catalog" parts back up for them. And they have quite a few drawbacks for anything more than sunny day, calm traffic use. 2 wheel brakes and non-syncro gearboxes just to name the obvious.

 However they are definitely on the price upswing.  Ten years ago I would see them , in older restored or decent running unrestored shape in the $20,000.00 give or take price range. These days they all seem to be a lot more than that. And no , not Gold Bugs or Bearcat's or boat tails. Just the regular roadsters and sport touring's.  I have a reasonable ability with mechanics and parts fabrication offset by limited funds,so a more off beat , upper middle class, late teens, early 20's car seemed to be a reasonable fit. But these days the price escalation has raised an impossible to overcome barrier.  I have liked these cars since I became aware of them in my 30's. I am now on the brink of my 60's and ownership is further away than it has ever been.

Greg in Canada

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Once again, a Quebecois lives up to the stereotype. Nice job.

 

This is just about the rudest sentence I have ever seen on this forum.

 

Matt, I've found your posts to be generally informative but you have really crossed a line with this bigoted reply.

Whether you agree with the OP or not matters little to me. A spirited debate can be good for all involved but an unwarranted personal attack such as this calls for nothing less than an unqualified apology.

 

While we like to believe the vintage car hobby lends itself to being somewhat exclusive, please remember, in order to be exclusive, one must exclude.

 

Kind Regards, Greg

 

 

 

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Here is an auction where you may be able to pick up an Auburn real cheap about 2 hr, from you. Or about 1 hr from the US boarder where someone from the US could snap it up 30% cheaper.               http://www.dougjarrellauctions.com/june-23-2018.php

Edited by Joe in Canada (see edit history)

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2 hours ago, PreWarQc said:

 

And if you bought a 500$ or 1000$ and got it reliable it does not matter what you want for it, the only thing that matters is what the market is willing to pay for it. It could be 50k, it could be 500$. And I'm ok with that, my concern is that owners hold on to their cars because they don't get their price (and this is not a problem)... the problem is that in the long term, they will have no choice but to sell (because everybody gets old and or sick) and since most owners are in the same age group, this will pretty much all happen in a short time frame and then the market will get saturated, the old buyers will not be buying and the young guys will not be there to buy... and then, prices drop, a lot.

By that time, I and other guys like me will have moved on to other cars.

 

 

I'm 66 and didn't buy my first old car until I was 58 years old though I fell in love with a 1911 Model T, when I was 15, that stood in the basement of the local Ford dealership in my town until the founder's son dragged it from the basement and displayed it in the show room.

I bought a 1920 Model T coupe and loved it to pieces.

Then I bought a 1919 Touring T because the Coupe was so much fun I wanted room for passengers to enjoy it with me....... :)

I've had more and sold, some AT A LOSS, to indulge 5 more until I got my dream car (in my avatar) which forced the sale of 3 more.

I have three now, my 1927 Tudor T, the '32 Chevrolet and my '59 Chevy.

A '59 Chevy was my first car ever which I loved to pieces as well and I needed to have another.

The '59 is has been and always will be my favorite car to drive.

Hobbies aren't all about value.

They are about what you love.

The true value in them is  the cost of enjoyment.

I couldn't care less what someone ELSE thinks my cars are worth.

MONEY can't buy what I get out of enjoying my cars....... 😍

 

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Welcome to AACA forums, PreWarQc, and congratulations for having hung in here (if you are still with us), through your "Trial by fire". I can see where you are coming from to a large degree. You see an aspect of a real tectonic change, well under way, in a world the survival of which may depend on reversion to feudalism. Perhaps the magnitude of this societal upheaval will be  more monumental than that of about 3 centuries ago. Playing for keeps, son. I also take your questions literally, and as in all causality games, psychological analysis of the motivations of others can be fun. Any entertaining conclusions should be taken somewhat lightly, as they by their nature , they are based upon assumptions. Regarding the reasons for the deviations from market realities of aging boomers, however, I'll leave my Dr. Diagnosis hat on the rack , at least for the present. O.K. ? I don't even know if you'll be back.

 

Now, I do have something very valuable to offer you after having read everything leading up to my response. Are you still here ? Oh, no : I am not trying to sell my pre-war beauties to you. They are one of those private transactions, long spoken for. Young folk getting them, sick old man turning 74 in a month selling them in slow motion. Dr. Diagnosis prescribed these old Cadillacs (1924 & 1927), as cheap psychotherapy for me. Though you fortunate Canadians have National Health, I don't think they will fill this Rx for you. You gonna have to pay. If you look at it right, you'll more than get your money's worth. If you check back in, I'll show you how.                                                        Very glad you are with us. Don't take constructive criticism too seriously around these parts.        -  Cadillac Carl 

 

 

 

 

 

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Oh hey, 'Qc, I probably should have mentioned  : these two old Cadillacs are unrestored originals. Didn't you say something about appreciating the smell of old  cars.? The smell of the 1924 open Cad with its leather upholstery, is quite different from the smell of the closed '27 with the totally intact, very well preserved mohair velvet interior. Know what I mean.? 

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