National Meet Tours

[Jack Welch]

The purpose of this thread is to try and get an idea of what members (and their spouses, et al) would like to see on National Meet tours. One of the hard parts in planning a National Meet is coming up with tours that appeal to attendees. The most constructive comments would be those pertaining to costs, interests and bus tours vs driven tours. The discussion of the effect of those tours and the effect it has on vendors would also e helpful. (for instance, should the length of a National Meet be lengthened to accommodate both entities?) It is one of my jobs on the National Meet Committee to come up with a list of standard SOPs for running National Meets, so your opinions here could be veery helpful in that regard.

A tradition in the BCA for many years was to provide only positive comments about prior National Meets. That tradition has suffered a bit in the last few years, but for our purposes, I would ask that you not go back and criticise former tours, but let us go forward from here. 

[JohnD1956]

Thanks for starting this thread Jack. 

 

I haven't been on a tour for a while now.  For several National I'd sign up for one or two so as to do something with my wife, so she did not feel left out.  But she hasn't  been unable to go on the tours when we arrived so I didn't go either.  And while I understand and appreciate the advantages of busses where the destination includes high traffic zones, I'd like to see more tours where the individuals could drive their own cars if they wanted, so that if they could not go at the last minute, then it wasn't such an economic loss. 

 

As far as tours that I would appreciate with my wife:  Floral parks,  historical museums,  picturesque driving cruises.  River boat cruises?  Special luncheon destinations?

in addition, for those with kids,  Theme amusement parks? Pools/beaches.

For those I'd like to do personally:  Local salvage yards with appropriate age related inventory.

 

Maybe more later

 

[Thriller]

I think the answer is “it depends”.  I don’t deal with chartering buses so I have no clue what sort of costs they run. I’d love to be able to dig in and see how the costs add up and what is included in a given tour.  I hope everyone understands that there are costs and there’s no free ride. I do see both sides of the fence. When I go to a location I’ve not visited before, I do like to see the local flavour of things and some of the sites, so a planned tour can be a pleasant way to do that, while meeting and chatting with other BCA members on the bus. A bus ride can be more comfortable especially with heavy traffic or high heat. We typically drive 2-3 days to get to a National, so depending on what we drive, I sometimes like a break from driving. 

 

Disappointment stems from missed or unmet expectations. To lessen that, perhaps more extensive tour descriptions could be given. As Bugle space is at a premium, that may mean alternating the tour descriptions each month.

 

As for the swap meet vendors, my biggest pet peeve is that they aren’t there through the length of the meet.  We often plan to arrive the night before the meet starts, but the first day of the meet has a very sparse swap space.  Also, as I often participate in judging, when I’m done with that on Saturday many of them are already packed up.  So, if I day a day tour (whether organized or on my own), if it is Thursday or Friday I’m the one who misses out on the opportunity to shop the swap.  Of course, how I plan my meet also depends on things like when tours are offered.  Some years, the same tour has been offered on multiple days so we can choose when to take it.  Sometimes there have been different tours each day so if there’s a tour we want to take it is what we do on the day it is offered.

 

Another important point is a need to have a more complete agenda out earlier.  There are a variety of meetings and events that occur at a National, so knowing when the membership meeting or division meetings and events occur is important as well.  Of course, as these grow in number, the logistics are getting increasingly challenging.  For instance, we own Reattas, a 1959, and pre-war Buicks...if we wanted to attend each group’s meetings it becomes a time stretch.  

 

Perhaps I’m getting to a point of rambling.  I hope these thoughts are of value.  We’ve had some really enjoyable tours over the years and we’ve been on some disappointing ones as well.  There are always people who don’t drive their Buick to the meet, whether they fly in or the Buick isn’t ready or whatever, so having some transportation options available to them is important.

 

[jscheib]

I think one important consideration.  Unless someone can pull a lot of local strings, it is difficult to again get such a trip as Allentown to Dorney Park.  Tours such as the covered bridge driving should be restricted to about 10 cars so all can keep together through traffic, without hampering local traffic.  Good communication, as simple as exchanging cell phone numbers with fellow travelers, is essential, as well as a couple of good navigators and good instructions.  A lot depends on local traffic conditions, the distance and the age of vehicles.  I would encourage people that they should perhaps ride share as possible.

 

John

[Matt Harwood]

I would encourage some differentiation for the ages of the cars. Maybe early cars do one day's tour while the later cars do the next day's tour and they alternate. Whenever we take our 1929 Cadillac on a tour, we're constantly feeling like we have to rush to keep up and every tour stop we arrive just in time to watch all the "modern" cars rolling out. It's not a race or a competition, but the old car just can't keep up with even something from the '50s. That's no fun. I'm sure the folks in the even older cars feel the same way. Touring with cars of a similar vintage could be a welcome relief, especially in the AACA where I'll bet a majority of tour participants will drive something from the '70s or '80s. 

[Barney Eaton]

Let me put tour at the BCA National meet into some catagories.

(1) tours that the only way you can see them is thru a connection ie BCA..... some examples ..

.the GM heritage collection that was part of the 2008 national....The Albaugh Chevy collection that we saw during the Ames BCA national. there are probably other.

(2) tours that all you need is being aware they are in the area........some are free some have a cover or entry fee.

My personal choice is to go to the national a day or two early and see the local sites that are not restricted entry....I go to the BCA meet (and other cars meets) to see the cars and old friends, 

I seldom can justify blowing an entire day to see sites that I could do on an individual bases in half that time and I am not restricted by a bus schedule.

(3) The other possible  tours would be for spouses and children that do not want to spend another whole day looking at cars.

We all know it takes a lot of planning and effort putting the tours together and I am sure there are other BCA members that look forward to taking the tours.......just my thoughts.

[Jack Welch]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I would encourage some differentiation for the ages of the cars. Maybe early cars do one day's tour while the later cars do the next day's tour and they alternate. Whenever we take our 1929 Cadillac on a tour, we're constantly feeling like we have to rush to keep up and every tour stop we arrive just in time to watch all the "modern" cars rolling out. It's not a race or a competition, but the old car just can't keep up with even something from the '50s. That's no fun. I'm sure the folks in the even older cars feel the same way. Touring with cars of a similar vintage could be a welcome relief, especially in the AACA where I'll bet a majority of tour participants will drive something from the '70s or '80s. 

I agree with you on the difficulty of keeping up in a prewar car Matt, and we can look at the logistics of it, but given all that has to happen at a National Meet, and the relative small amount of early cars, I am not sure it is doable. It will be interesting as this thread goes on to see if we get more requests for early cars only. My thought process is to issue a  sort of a "triptik" and map for tours and let everyone proceed at their own pace. For the most part there will only be one destination in each tour. Let's see where this goes.

[Brian_Heil]

My 2 cents. 

 

The Pre War Division has had pretty good luck with its After Tours, after the meet beginning on Sunday morning.  Typically 3 days. Sunday we move to a little out of the way town to get a cheaper group rate at a hotel or motel. It’s a hub tour so we are never more than 50 miles from the hotel. All are welcome, heck, drive a rental car, we don’t care. See some neat stuff that we gather intel from local BCA’rs or other car clubs that have toured in the area that you would not otherwise see.  Pay as you go, no mark-up or Tour fee and we try to get group rates and save that way too.  Free works too. 

 

Also a Driving Dinner on Friday of the Meet with a good route and a good venue. No $50 rubber chicken either.  Very well attended. Again, all are welcome.  Take a cab for all we care or ride with others. It just takes some homework. 

 

We tend to hang at the Meet, to meet and greet at Thursday arrival to Sunday departure and not get on a bus.  I think the ladies tours are a good thing. But for the most part, we come to see each other, kick tires, enjoy a cool drink of your choice and BS in the shade. Oh and look at some cars too. 

 

Having run a number of tours, you have to be mindful of walking distances. Some can’t walk great distances so keep that in mind.  See the outside stuff in the morning when it’s cool. See the air conditioned museum or collection in the afternoon heat. 

 

A good coffee stop in the a.m and ice cream in the afternoon is not at option, it is a requirement. 

[jscheib]

Whatever Brian says!!!  By that I mean he organized an outstanding PWD After-Tour after Brookfield last year, as well as many others as well as many others.  Just look at what I would call really "Street Cred".  He knows of what he speaks.

 

Thank you again Brian.

 

John 

[Jack Welch]

1 hour ago, Brian_Heil said:

My 2 cents. 

 

The Pre War Division has had pretty good luck with its After Tours, after the meet beginning on Sunday morning.  Typically 3 days. Sunday we move to a little out of the way town to get a cheaper group rate at a hotel or motel. It’s a hub tour so we are never more than 50 miles from the hotel. All are welcome, heck, drive a rental car, we don’t care. See some neat stuff that we gather intel from local BCA’rs or other car clubs that have toured in the area that you would not otherwise see.  Pay as you go, no mark-up or Tour fee and we try to get group rates and save that way too.  Free works too. 

 

Also a Driving Dinner on Friday of the Meet with a good route and a good venue. No $50 rubber chicken either.  Very well attended. Again, all are welcome.  Take a cab for all we care or ride with others. It just takes some homework. 

 

We tend to hang at the Meet, to meet and greet at Thursday arrival to Sunday departure and not get on a bus.  I think the ladies tours are a good thing. But for the most part, we come to see each other, kick tires, enjoy a cool drink of your choice and BS in the shade. Oh and look at some cars too. 

 

Having run a number of tours, you have to be mindful of walking distances. Some can’t walk great distances so keep that in mind.  See the outside stuff in the morning when it’s cool. See the air conditioned museum or collection in the afternoon heat. 

 

A good coffee stop in the a.m and ice cream in the afternoon is not at option, it is a requirement. 

The tours that you guys do are much more involved then what we can deal with at the National Meet level. It is a great option for attendees wishing to see and get a  feel for the area. I am thinking you have a limit on number of vehicles?

[jscheib]

Jack,

 

I will answer that one with a bit of a laugh - if some do not get (short-lived) lost for a bit along the way, we can always split into two smaller groups.  And we have split into two for viewing different sites.  Caual and low stress is the theme, I would say.

 

John

[Brian_Heil]

3 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

The tours that you guys do are much more involved then what we can deal with at the National Meet level. It is a great option for attendees wishing to see and get a  feel for the area. I am thinking you have a limit on number of vehicles?

I wouldn’t say so Jack, don’t quit before you try. You just swap days/venues or mornings for afternoons with two groups if you get too large.  Watch your meal venues for adequate seating. The Glidden Tours travel with over 200 vehicles. It just takes homework. Older/slower cars leave earlier or you give the more modern cars a little longer route, you just don’t tell them. Ha. 

 

When the National Meet comes to Ohio in two years, we’ll put on a good one.  Hope you join us. 

 

Reminds me of of setting up chairs with my Dad at church as a boy. 

 

Me:  Hey we may be running out of chairs.  

 

Dad:  That’s the whole idea son.  

[Brian_Heil]

21 hours ago, jscheib said:

Jack,

 

I will answer that one with a bit of a laugh - if some do not get (short-lived) lost for a bit along the way, we can always split into two smaller groups.  And we have split into two for viewing different sites.  Caual and low stress is the theme, I would say.

 

John

See, John is still talking about getting ‘lost’ in Wisconsin last year. The detour signs sent us off only to disappear once we got to Timbuktu and leave us all wondering what to do next. We were all lost.  Part of the adventure. Poor guy, he was in a modern car with a/c and GPS. 

 

Trust me, no BCA’er ever missed lunch, ice cream or Happy Hour, then or ever. 

 

Turn on your towing on your classic car insurance if not included. Mine is an extra $8 a year. That’s always the next question.  What happens if I break down?  Well here’s a news flash, that car was going to break down anyway, it doesn’t know where you are. Why not with lots of friends to help you?  The typical problem is too many people stop when some one breaks down. You call the hook and get a free ride back to the hotel, hell , I’ve told the tow truck driver where the next stop was so he could look at all the cars or let me buy him a sundae. 

 

You find out who your real friends are and who are the real mechanics that night in the parking lot.  We look like an Indy pit crew, just a little fatter and a little slower but we can put 10 guys over the wall and they only get what 4?

Edited May 29, 2018 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Jack Welch]

10 minutes ago, Brian_Heil said:

I wouldn’t say so Jack, don’t quit before you try. You just swap days/venues or mornings for afternoons with two groups if you get too large.  Watch your meal venues for adequate seating. The Glidden Tours travel with over 200 vehicles. It just takes homework. Older/slower cars leave earlier or you give the more modern cars a little longer route, you just don’t tell them. Ha. 

 

When the National Meet comes to Ohio in two years, we’ll put on a good one.  Hope you join us. 

 

Reminds me of of setting up chairs with my Dad at church as a boy. 

 

Me:  Hey we may be running out of chairs.  

 

Dad:  That’s the whole idea son.  

Brian: I know what uno mean, I have run Classic Car Club of America Caravans, but this is about National Meets. We barely have the manpower to put on a Meet. Tours like you are speaking about are way beyond the scope of what we can effectively do. Our tours are to local car collections, points of interest, etc. The type of tours you are referring to are really separate events.That type of tour is better left to the BDE, Prewar after the meet tour, etc.

 I am certainly looking forward to the Cleveland Meet. We (The National  Committee ) have been working closely with the Chapter in the planning of that meet.

[Brian_Heil]

10 minutes ago, Jack Welch said:

Brian: I know what uno mean, I have run Classic Car Club of America Caravans, but this is about National Meets. We barely have the manpower to put on a Meet. Tours like you are speaking about are way beyond the scope of what we can effectively do. Our tours are to local car collections, points of interest, etc. The type of tours you are referring to are really separate events.That type of tour is better left to the BDE, Prewar after the meet tour, etc.

 I am certainly looking forward to the Cleveland Meet. We (The National  Committee ) have been working closely with the Chapter in the planning of that meet.

As we always say in the PWD, all are welcome, run whatcha brung or hitch a ride, pay as you go. 

 

I hope you join us in 2020. I plan to lead an After Tour.  

[Barney Eaton]

Was the original question about tours to sites during the national meet......you ride a bus   OR

Tours where you drive the car you bring.....either before, during, or after the meet?

[Thriller]

5 hours ago, jscheib said:

Jack,

 

I will answer that one with a bit of a laugh - if some do not get (short-lived) lost for a bit along the way, we can always split into two smaller groups.  And we have split into two for viewing different sites.  Caual and low stress is the theme, I would say.

 

John

 

Split into groups...intentionally or not. Someone always knows where they are and where they’re going. 

 

[Jack Welch]

10 hours ago, Barney Eaton said:

Was the original question about tours to sites during the national meet......you ride a bus   OR

Tours where you drive the car you bring.....either before, during, or after the meet?

Yes, Barney, the original question and intent of the thread was to see what members prefer at National Meets for types of tours and whether they would prefer to drive or be taken in a bus. Sometimes we have no choice about the method of transportation due to parking restraints, etc and some times it is a matter of choice . Knowing the type of tour preferred will also help the National Meet Committee decide were to set up tour destinations.

Tours before and after the Meet, are really not part of the National Meet Committee's planing , and are currently being very well handled by the BDE and PWD.

[jscheib]

14 hours ago, Brian_Heil said:

See, John is still talking about getting ‘lost’ in Wisconsin last year. The detour signs sent us off only to disappear once we got to Timbuktu and leave us all wondering what to do next. We were all lost.  Part of the adventure. Poor guy, he was in a modern car with a/c and GPS. 

 

Trust me, no BCA’er ever missed lunch, ice cream or Happy Hour, then or ever. 

 

Turn on on your towing on your classic car insurance if not included. Mine is an extra $8 a year. That’s always the next question.  What happens if I break down?  Well here’s a news flash, that car was going to break down anyway, it doesn’t know where you are. Why not with lots of friends to help you?  The typical problem is too many people stop when some one breaks down. You call the hook and get a free ride back to the hotel, hell , I’ve told the tow truck driver where the next stop was so he could look at all the cars or let me buy him a sundae. 

 

You find out out who your real friends are and who are the real mechanics that night in the parking lot.  We look like an Indy pit crew, just a little fatter and a little slower but we can put 10 guys over the wall and they only get what 4?

 

Yes, and after making so many quick turns, my car compass told me it was temporary "out of service" for spinning so much.  But< I am an old man now, so the AC was good to have.  Maybe, if health is still good, I will make a PWDE tour with my '32.  But I never had much luck.  Bea became ill at Danvers and w Larry and I could not draw much interest after Allentown.  Meets can draw some energy from a group tour also.  Someone driving 500+ miles might enjoy na bus tour over self-driving.

 

John

 

 

[Mark Shaw]

23 hours ago, Jack Welch said:

My thought process is to issue a  sort of a "triptik" and map for tours and let everyone proceed at their own pace

Jack,

    Your thought process is correct.  However, I also suggest that the meet committee should make sure Buick "self driven members" get the same group discounts other Buick members get at the "bus tour" venues.  I believe most PWD and BDE members with empty back seats would also welcome other members to join them.  Perhaps a sign-up board could be placed in the hospitality room to help connect those wanting a ride with those offering rides to various venues.

[jscheib]

Mark,

 

Just a note - we had so many people passing through, the NMC thought it best t use the Sign In area but I think the signs were not easily noted, but Hospitality should work at a regular meet. 

 

John

[Mark Shaw]

2 hours ago, jscheib said:

Mark,

 

Just a note - we had so many people passing through, the NMC thought it best t use the Sign In area but I think the signs were not easily noted, but Hospitality should work at a regular meet. 

 

John

John,

     There is often too much going on in the sign-up area when members first arrive and they do not return after receiving their packets. 

IMO, posting on a white board in the hospitality room where members return during the meet to relax would work better.  

Edited May 29, 2018 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[jscheib]

I too think, a separate area in the Hospitality area would be the preferred location, and perhaps some working in the Hospitality area could be familiar with the self-driving tours, or possible small groups being formed, to assist in  organizing.

John