Portholes in Nickel Era and Brass era Cars

[ron hausmann]

All,

Wondering if any of you have pictures of cars from the "Brass-Era" or "Nickel-Era" which were factory equipped with porthole windows.

Apperson Toursters and Speedsters had portholes from about 1919-1922. Kissel Toursters and Speedsters from that same era had portholes but shared designs with Apperson thru their association with Conover Silver of New York. I just installed these porthole "windowlettes" or rear quadrant side curtains in my 1921 Kissel Sport Tourster. See pictures. Were there other "porthole" examples known to exist from these eras??

Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.

[DavidMc]

The latest HCCA Gazette on page 43 has a photo taken in 1927 showing a Packard with a porthole window similar to the ones in your photos.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Ron, I was reading an old AACA magazine from the 1970's.

The article referred to the oval side windows of 1920's cars--

though sometimes larger than the windows you show--as "opera windows."

 

I knew that opera windows were a popular styling feature

for cars of the 1970's, but the term evidently goes back farther.

There's always something new I learn!

Edited May 28, 2018 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[ron hausmann]

John S.

I'm not sure what the exact distinctions are between Opera Windows and Portholes. 

Two of my Kissels pictured here have oval Opera Windows. Those are the first two pictures of a 1923 Kissel Brougham Opera sedan and an original 1924 Kissel Victoria Coupe. These are Sedan and Coupe type bodies. But I do know that Kissel Sedanlettes from 1917-1919 had oval portholes in their convertible tops, so the shape distinction doesn't seem to be a good discriminator. That's shown in the third picture. 

Thanks, RON

[46 woodie]

I have a 1929 Ford Business Coupe that has oval windows. I recently saw an episode of Chasing Classic Cars, with Wayne Carini and he had a Kissel that he sent to an upholstery shop and had the side round windows removed. As a restorer, I couldn't understand why Wayne would do that. I hope he kept the windows to give to the person that purchases the car.

[ron hausmann]

46 Woodie,

There's been a lot of discussion among Kissel owners and restorers as to why anyone with great car know-how, would purposely choose NOT to restore a "classic car" correctly. Round portholes on 1919 to early 1923 Kissel Gold Bugs are stock and mandatory!. Omitting them really cheapens the car and dis's Kissel history. The reason given in the TV episode for not putting those portholes back in, was that he thought the car looked better without them. I certainly disagree, but I'm not a TV star, just a Kissel historian and expert.

Thanks, RON 

[Restorer32]

Yea it ticked me off beings as we restored the car. He removed the portholes and painted the fenders and splash aprons black (On this car at  least they were yellow from the factory) because he "thought it would help the car sell". Difference between a restorer and a car hustler I guess.

[ron hausmann]

Thanks Restorer32. Too bad.

As to colors, Kissels of that time were either custom ordered in any color, or, if factory spec, speedsters were either all yellow, or black and yellow as was done on this one.

thanks. Ron Hausmann 

[Restorer32]

I personally think the black and yellow looks better but ours was all yellow so that's how we restored it.

[trimacar]

Buick had such porthole windows in their tourings, at least the McLaughlin Buick that I put a top on for Unimog John did....poor quality picture of a screen picture but you get the idea...

 

As for Chasing Classic Cars, remember it's entertainment, and also remember he's a dealer looking for bucks, so originality and history are way down the list of priorities....

Edited May 29, 2018 by trimacar (see edit history)

[CHuDWah]

Model A Business Coupes had portholes in 1929 only.  Apologies to any owners but I think they look strange - maybe if they were vertical instead of slanted.

 

[oldcarfudd]

Didn't Model T Ford couplets have them in 1916?

[wayne sheldon]

oldcarfudd, Yes they did! They were also more of a long oval shape, and slanted, but the '16 (brass radiator) and early '17 (black radiator) both had small framed glass windows in the sides of their folding tops. I think such windows are quite distinctive and a mark of that short era that should be fully preserved whenever possible. I have a good friend that has a Pierce Arrow (1918 I think) that has small triangular shaped framed glass windows in the side of the rear top. They are said to be original from when the car was new, and he is quite proud of them.

As for all the various TV show people hawking their "classic cars"? I met Jay Leno many years ago. He is a true to his heart antique automobile guy, and extremely knowledgeable! I wish I could have gotten to know him more. (He and I talked antique cars , his and mine, for more than five minutes before I realized who he was!)  All of the rest I have seen on TV, in person, or in interviews? I wouldn't care to ever meet again. And I rarely ever watch their shows.

 

[Mac Horst]

My wife recently uncovered these images of her grandparents and their (I think) 1922 Buick roadster.  The top not only has portholes but appears to be padded as well.  Possibly an aftermarket item?   They lived in the San Francisco area.

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

Mac Horst

Sonoma, CA