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1918 Kissel Roadster / Hardtop


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All,

 

Learned of the existence of an unrestored 1918 Kissel Model 6-38 Gibraltar Roadster that was in a shed in Montana. It had been turned into a truck but they had thankfully kept the rear bustle and other parts. There are besides this one, one other Kissel roadster of this year that survives.

 

This Montana car is very rough but has the only existing removable wood hardtop, with curved glass sides, that exists I believe. The engine is in very good shape with all plaques and parts there.

 

Time for more carving!

 

Ron Hausmann 

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Another “easy restoration”.  ?

 

 

Ron, you are hard core on your favorite marque.........I’m glad you ended up with that Coupe, and I’m sure it will be done correctly and tastefully. I’m looking forward to the restoration photos. Do you have a time frame for the first drive? ?

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Wow!

Very interesting car to add to your collection.

Fascinating how things come out of the wood work (so to speak) when people find out your interests isn't it?

I"ll bet the back story to finding this one would be interesting Ron including the transporting to it's new home.

I won't say the usual quote but that IS quite the FIND!

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Re curved glass...we are restoring a 1918 Rauch and Lang electric with curved side glass similar to the Kissel. Best price we can get on 4 pieces of curved laminated safety glass is $3100 for the 4 pieces.  Hopefully Ron's glass is usable as is.

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Curved safety glass is expensive, curved plate glass as used before 1928 may be easier. I know they make blown glass bottles in wooden molds. Wonder if you could bend plate glass over a wooden form? You would need a smooth polished wooden form of the right curve and a way to heat a piece of plate glass then bend it over the form. It should be possible to do this anywhere that has a suitable oven. And the cost would be closer to $30 than $3000. A glass blower may be able to help, especially if he can examine the original glass for clues to how it was made.

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2 hours ago, 1912Staver said:

When the Coupe top is in place is the Roadster windshield still there too ? In effect looking through 2 windshields ? 

 

Greg in Canada

Greg, 

Yes the flat framed windshield remains. This curved glass set of corners is the only body style in which Kissel put these in. There are no factory pictures except the ones that I posted and this deteriorated specimen. that's why saving it is soooo important.!

RON

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8 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Curved safety glass is expensive, curved plate glass as used before 1928 may be easier. I know they make blown glass bottles in wooden molds. Wonder if you could bend plate glass over a wooden form? You would need a smooth polished wooden form of the right curve and a way to heat a piece of plate glass then bend it over the form. It should be possible to do this anywhere that has a suitable oven. And the cost would be closer to $30 than $3000. A glass blower may be able to help, especially if he can examine the original glass for clues to how it was made.

 They would not licence it for the road up here without being safety glass.

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Restorer, Joe,

i believe that the curved glass corners on this specimen are damaged. One is much cracked as you see in the pictures. However, I have a glass blower / blacksmith artist buddy who will make these if I need. Not $3000, but much less. 

Here in Micjigan, if a car was originally equipped with materials (like plate glass or asbestos brakes) or unreliable systems (mechanical rod brakes) I have not had any problem getting them licensed. Even my Kissel Gold Bug with the very unsafe "suicide seats" is licensed because those were original equipment !

thanks, Ron 

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Last Aug. on the Vintage Tour we when to the Corning Museum and watched the glass blowers there . I would think they could answer any question on making curved glass or who can do it. By the way it was a fabulous tour. 

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4 hours ago, ron hausmann said:

 

Here in Micjigan, if a car was originally equipped with materials (like plate glass or asbestos brakes) or unreliable systems (mechanical rod brakes) I have not had any problem getting them licensed. Even my Kissel Gold Bug with the very unsafe "suicide seats" is licensed because those were original equipment !

thanks, Ron 

 

I do thank our state for this small favor! Makes life a bit less challenging when dealing with the oldies...

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Pierce-Arrow coupes through 1920 also had curved glass pieces adjoining the flat windshield.  Pierce collector-restorer Pat Craig in Stockton, CA has restored several of these and may have some curved glass replacement information.  Please PM me if you want his contact info.

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All,

It's not the curved glass / plexiglass that deters me - it's the year of solid hard work that it will take to carve all of the wood out of oak and ash to replicate the original. I have done this in a total car just once before, in getting my one-of-a-kind 1918 Kissel Sedanlette with removeable wood top done. And it gave me an ugly case of carpel tunnel syndrome. There's no real way to mechanize this as it must be done completely with hand tools to get the right curves. It CAN be done, but takes time. See pictures. and the other 1918 Kissel discussion Forum.

I hope I last long enough to get to that point where I worry about the curved glass pieces! 

Thanks, Ron Hausmann P.E.

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This coupe-roadster (I thought I would never put those two words together?) looks like another incredible car! Kissel did indeed make some of the most interesting cars of their eras.

 

Oh, and if you are ever looking for someone to ride in one of those side seats on a Goldbug? I would volunteer, even for a ride at speed! Paige also had such a seat on their 6-66 Daytona Roadster!

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9 hours ago, mcdarrunt said:

I certainly wouldn't spend big money on laminated glass when tempered glass, like modern cars have, is much stronger and safer. Regular glass is fit to a mold and once formed is then tempered. Much easier and lower cost.

 

Actually, the company I found to fabricate the curved glass we need only does laminated safety and said if they could do tempered the tempered might actually cost more. Surprised me as well. If you know of a company that produces custom tempered curved glass please post contact info. We only found 2 companies, both architectural glass businesses, that would even quote on the glass we need.

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  • 1 month later...

All - 

     Just returned from towing my trailer from Detroit to Montana and back to Detroit to pick up this car. 3,600 miles. Only saving grace was the 80 mph speed limit and trouble free weather. No load, trailer, nor car troubles.

     We had to disassemble the car from its truck chassis and re-mate it to its original Kissel Model 6-38 chassis which was turned into a farm wagon by the same person who did the truck conversion.

     Upon further inspection, i'm not going to restore this car. wToo much work for me. The wood hard top and body are to far gone for me to tackle, so I'm going to give wood for patterns to the owner of the only other remaining 1918 Kissel Coupe/Roadster.

     The engine is pristine - I am going to use it in my 1918 Kissel Sedanlette.

     Much of the trim, handles, windshield, latches, are excellent - I will use those on my 1918 or save .

     The chassis is nearly rust free and has all axles and brake fittings - I will keep these since they work on later model Kissels both Model 6-38 and early Model 6-45's. I actually need these axles on my unrestored Kissel Gold Bug.

     Here are pictures in Montana.

 

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Ron, It,s not like you to back away from a challenge! I can’t blame you, but I’m sure you could have pulled it off. As we say around our shop.......you can’t save them all. At least the parts will be used of other worthwhile projects. Keep posting photos please.......3600 Miles for parts........I have done the same thing......but I’m getting too old to do 1200 miles a day. ?

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 9:25 PM, Joe in Canada said:

 They would not licence it for the road up here without being safety glass.

I don't see why not.  In Alberta, vintage cars are grandfathered.  If it didn't come from the factory with safety glass, or seat belts, et al., one is not required to retrofit them.  I believe it is the same in Ontario.

 

Regardless, I feel a lot safer riding in a Model T without any of these modern day safety features than I would on a motorcycle which offers NO protection of any kind.

 

Craig

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Safety glass is required here. Replacing the windshields in my '24 open Cadillac was quite time consuming. The closed '27 would be much easier. However, there is a decal on the windshield (basically  a 1944 Idaho "license plate"),  which I want to remain on the car. I have a plastic "shield" I can attach to the windshield with 5 suction cups. I think you can see it quite well in these two pictures if you click into high resolution. Broken glass is incredibly sharp. Actually used for some cutting purposes. You can not hone a blade as sharp. We have all had impacts (rock, bird), on our safety glass windshields which would have shattered the old plate glass. Ancient cars like this are death traps. We are lucky we are still allowed to drive them. There may come a time when AACA needs to help keep these old things from being permanently "drydocked". Please, anyone who reads this, if you are not yet a member of AACA  :  JOIN UP !  

      Thank you,   -  Carl 

 

 

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19 hours ago, edinmass said:

Ron, It,s not like you to back away from a challenge! I can’t blame you, but I’m sure you could have pulled it off. As we say around our shop.......you can’t save them all. At least the parts will be used of other worthwhile projects. Keep posting photos please.......3600 Miles for parts........I have done the same thing......but I’m getting too old to do 1200 miles a day. ?

 

Ed - right now I need to finish my 1918 Kissel model 6-38 Sedanlette (only one of any year that survives), build a 1925 Kissel Model 6-55 panel delivery mail truck from all my spare parts, and restore my unrestored but complete Kissel model 6-45 Gold Bug Speedster. As it takes two years each, I'm a bit pressed for time! If I had another  couple decades before my hands go, maybe I can tackle thus one. But grandchildren and wife will always take precedence! My grandsons will drive these some day!

ron

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