Tax and your cars

[joe_padavano]

53 minutes ago, emjay said:

That math is quite simple.  The force per square inch is virtually the same as the tire pressure.  Whether you want to multiply by the number of wheels is open to debate.

 

No, actually it isn't. This is only true if the vehicle is not moving.  When the vehicle is in motion, the math is far more complex.  If it were only a static calculation, wider tires would not improve handling.

[39BuickEight]

Of course driving style cant be accounted for, but aggressive driving will dramatically increase wear on the road.  Like a 18 ton gravel truck taking a turn at 65 instead of 50 as the law indicates.

[R W Burgess]

13 minutes ago, charlier said:

 

 

 

Here in Pennsylvania they do tax over-the-road Diesel which I believe trucking companies still pay for, right?

 

 

 

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We pay quarterly fuel taxes. Our licenses are renewed each year and we also have to set up the states we expect to run in each month. When the fees are due, we pay the percentage to each state on a form and our home state sends the receipts to the states that we run in. This is different from the Heavy Use Tax, which is paid once a year. Personally, I have been trying to eat less, so that the government gets less taxes from my bodily fluids! ? 

[Matt Harwood]

12 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

As for the tinfoil hat crowd worried about being tracked, how, exactly, does telling the gov't that vehicle X travelled 13,408 miles last year equate to "tracking"?

 

Because then I wouldn't be able to cheat on my taxes by lying to the government about how far I drove and how much I paid for the car! It's not fair! Everyone else should pay their share, but not me!

[Restorer32]

Our local bank has several parking spaces reserved near the front door for "Fuel Efficient Vehicles". I always park my 7000# Ram Diesel in these spaces. At 17 mpg the Ram is more efficient per pound moved than a 3000# car getting 34 mpg.

[Wheelmang]

Generally the per gallon tax is higher on diesel fuel vs. gas. This varies significantly from state to state. Wonder where that falls in all of the questions and scenarios that precede?

[60FlatTop]

16 hours ago, emjay said:

How does the gas tax subsidize SUVs? 

 

I thought the tax went into the general fund and they used it to buy Tahoes and Suburbans. And a few Escalades.

 

 

Maybe a few sidecars nobody sits in.....

Edited May 23, 2018 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[R W Burgess]

14 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Our local bank has several parking spaces reserved near the front door for "Fuel Efficient Vehicles". I always park my 7000# Ram Diesel in these spaces. At 17 mpg the Ram is more efficient per pound moved than a 3000# car getting 34 mpg.

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??

I bet they love you there. Ha!

[joe_padavano]

17 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

Our local bank has several parking spaces reserved near the front door for "Fuel Efficient Vehicles". I always park my 7000# Ram Diesel in these spaces. At 17 mpg the Ram is more efficient per pound moved than a 3000# car getting 34 mpg.

 

Really? Because you only drive it fully loaded? If not, then your statement is pure BS. Reminds me of the Lincoln ads from the deepest, darkest days of the 1970s, when they bragged about the highest PASSENGER miles per gallon. ?

 

And exactly what does this have to do with the topic of road tax and wear and tear on roads - other than the fact that your Ram causes more damage per mile?

[60FlatTop]

17 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

If not, then your statement is pure BS.

 

I'm offended  by that attack on free speech!

[R W Burgess]

26 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

other than the fact that your Ram causes more damage per mile?

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Depends on the size of the tires on that Ram. I've seen some so big that they would probably not squash a bug! 

[39BuickEight]

and if the Prius owner drives it like a race car, they are doing more damage than a conservatively driven truck

[Restorer32]

Gas taxes do not come anywhere near  paying 100% of the cost of building and maintaining roads. Even those who do not drive subsidize the roads thru their state income and sales taxes. 

[joe_padavano]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

I'm offended  by that attack on free speech!

 

I never said he wasn't free to spout BS...

[Restorer32]

What color is your Prius Joe?

[joe_padavano]

46 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

What color is your Prius Joe?

 

Thanks for that mature and germane response. I'm suggesting that the cost of road maintenance should be pro-rated to vehicles based on how much damage they do.  Not sure how a Prius even applies to that discussion.

 

I didn't realize this forum had stooped to Facebook-style arguments.  Feel free to subsidize your neighbors.  I've wasted enough time on this.  FYI, my daily driver is the 67 Delta 88.

Edited May 23, 2018 by joe_padavano (see edit history)

[Kevin M]

As Ben Franklin Said, " the only things certain in life are death and taxes". In the case of roads and maintenance there's a ton of variables for who/what causes the most damage and who should pay for it. Government will always find something to tax, that's one of the few things they do well. For example if we remove the trucks and ship all that cargo by rail or water. Yes the roads will have less wear from trucks but the truckers will be mad, whatever politician who gets the most campaign contributions(bribes) from trucking companies will be too. Its a bad situation for whoever has to deal with the payment for upkeep. A gas tax in theory would pay for a lot of maintenance along with registration and inspection fees. But we all know if that were true our roads would be damn near perfect. Hopefully no politicians read this thread and think" that's a good idea lets tax gas more!"

[John_S_in_Penna]

8 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

I believe he was referring to luxury touring cars and not super cars.  Lots of higher end Benzes and such on the roads.  

 

Actually, both.  

Car executive Bob Lutz has made the same point.

It's just that people criticize the SUV's instead of all the others.

 

The big American trucks and the big sport utilities

can be very useful, everyone here knows:  Pulling a 

trailer, for example.  You can't do that very well with

those equally gas-using foreign luxury cars.

 

It's good to have a market where there's a wide choice of vehicles.

[Matt Harwood]

The federal gas tax is currently 18.4 cents per gallon. It hasn't been raised since 1992--that's 26 years since an increase. 26 years ago, you could buy a new Ford Taurus for under $18,000. A gallon of gas was $1.10. A quart of oil was about 60 cents. 26 years is long enough for you to have had a child and for that child to have children. Politicians know it's suicide to touch it, but it's getting kind of stupid not to if they're considering other taxes to raise revenue for infrastructure. I think a tax that would stabilize gas prices would be beneficial. Let's make the gas tax whatever the difference is between, say, $4.00 and the current price of a gallon of gas, so gas ALWAYS costs $4.00/gallon. That way the price of gas, which has inelastic demand, will remain constant and the tax can be varied to either produce a lot of revenue when gas is cheap or prevent spikes that can affect peoples' budgets when gas gets expensive. That way people who are budgeting for their transportation expenses can rely on a steady figure and no shocks to their income. We may not feel it, but when gas was $5/gallon in 2005-2006, people lost their jobs because they couldn't afford to commute to work anymore. That's not right. It will also give consumers the opportunity to move into more efficient cars gradually rather than being forced into it by a sudden spike. Higher prices are coming, how do we want to manage it? 

 

In Europe, the gas tax is on the order of $3-4  per gallon! If you've driven over there, you know that the roads are in excellent condition and that they don't mess around with driving. People seem to have survived over there without the collapse of society with expensive gas. No, they don't have 3-ton pickup trucks for commuting to work, but they manage just fine nonetheless.

 

Or we can just let it all fall apart and count the pennies that tax cuts give us and pat ourselves on the backs for being so fiscally smart. Every time I hear someone complain about the condition of the roads or the schools or the wait in line at some government agency, I remind them that they just got a tax cut--isn't that what they really wanted? A few extra dollars each week, maybe enough to buy a pack of smokes--who cares if the rest of it goes to hell, right? I'm sure all that wealth will start to trickle down any day now...

Edited May 23, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

In Europe, the gas tax is on the order of $3-4  per gallon! If you've driven over there, you know that the roads are in excellent condition and that they don't mess around with driving. People seem to have survived over there without the collapse of society with expensive gas. No, they don't have 3-ton pickup trucks for commuting to work, but they manage just fine nonetheless.

Hard to compare a country the size of the USA with a place like Europe,  where most people stay within their own respective country,  unlike ours where people do business and travel mush more freely over a much larger area.  Also hard to compare with the number of people and difference in industry between the two countries.  

Besides did't we kick them out of our country centuries ago over taxation?  Why would want to be like them?  The idea was to go the other way. 

If a high gas tax would solve all the problems,  why is California in so much trouble where the gas is the most expensive in the country because of taxes.  As with all the tax revenue is misappropriated and most goes to the executives and cushy benefit packages not the actual roads.

Jeeze if NY state cut back just a little on salt use in the Winter they would probably save an insane amount of money.  When you salt before during and after a storm,  plowing off the salt the truck just put down in front of you when the second truck comes through,  You really didn't accomplish much. 

Don't forget the sales tax they collect on new, used, more used, and used up, cars every time the new owner registers them.  Where does all that go?   Especially the people who come in and lease a new car,  Pay the full tax then the next guy pays the tax again when they are done with it,  meanwhile neither one actually owned the thing,  just the privledge to drive it. 

[ply33]

7 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Hard to compare a country the size of the USA with a place like Europe,  where most people stay within their own respective country,  unlike ours where people do business and travel mush more freely over a much larger area.  Also hard to compare with the number of people and difference in industry between the two countries.  

Besides did't we kick them out of our country centuries ago over taxation?  Why would want to be like them?  The idea was to go the other way. 

If a high gas tax would solve all the problems,  why is California in so much trouble where the gas is the most expensive in the country because of taxes.  As with all the tax revenue is misappropriated and most goes to the executives and cushy benefit packages not the actual roads.

Jeeze if NY state cut back just a little on salt use in the Winter they would probably save an insane amount of money.  When you salt before during and after a storm,  plowing off the salt the truck just put down in front of you when the second truck comes through,  You really didn't accomplish much. 

Don't forget the sales tax they collect on new, used, more used, and used up, cars every time the new owner registers them.  Where does all that go?   Especially the people who come in and lease a new car,  Pay the full tax then the next guy pays the tax again when they are done with it,  meanwhile neither one actually owned the thing,  just the privledge to drive it. 

 

• Europe as a whole is comparable in size and population to the US. They have issues, we have issues. But if we are smart we can learn from their experiences to avoid some problems they have or correct some issues we have but they don't. In many regards they are doing things much better than we.
• We didn't kick them (all of Europe) out centuries ago. We threw out remote control (non-representational) government over us by one country. We actually did that by, in part, getting another monarchy (France) to back us with money, weapons, etc.
• One of the rallying cries of our revolution was "no taxation without representation" not "no taxation". Taxes were just fine with our revolutionary ancestors as long as they got a say in what and how things got taxed. Last I checked we have a representational government at the federal, state, county and municipal level.
• Taxes are painful and our representatives know that so any vote for a tax or tax hike is often avoided until it is seemingly unavoidable.
• California is not "in so much trouble". At present California is actually running a surplus at the state level. There are arguments about whether that surplus should be saved for a rainy day, spent or returned to the taxpayers.
• Governments are a systems setup to make civilization work. You want to live in a civilized country? You need a government of some kind. Taxes pay for governments and government services.
• At least we have a say (vote) in what our different levels of government do and how they raise money to do it. But many, perhaps most of us, either don't vote or make our voting decisions based on gut feel influenced by targeted advertising paid for by well heeled individuals and organizations. If we have an issue with our government it is because we as voters and citizens have failed in our duties.
• Politics should not be a dirty word: It is how people with different needs, backgrounds and world views work to find common ground.

[auburnseeker]

Yes but when your representatives stop representing you and the best interest of the country,  then it's time to throw them out to.   Seems it happened not too long ago. 

[60FlatTop]

Singularly, people make pretty sensible decisions. You get them together in a group and you can hear the brains drop out the bottom when they walk in the door (go ahead, visualize that).

 

"Ah, the newly elected official. Please step into the back room. We have to unscrew your skull cap and scoop the brains out."

 

Funny, top or bottom, it works the same way.

 

I do think there has been a shift from taxation without representation to taxation by regulation. I can't think of a regulation that does not carry a financial penalty..... and the obligatory surcharge.

 

Traditionally, large government entities have gained wealth by exploiting the wealth of the indigenous peoples. WE are the new indigenous.

Bernie

[auburnseeker]

Remember the Govt doesn't make money,   they take money.   Unless the government is producing something they sell they aren't making money,  they are harvesting it from the worker bees. 

[39BuickEight]

And Europeans aren't obsessed with the road like we are.  It's a completely different outlook on the auto industry.

[JACK M]

16 hours ago, auburnseeker said:

Yes but when your representatives stop representing you and the best interest of the country,  then it's time to throw them out to.   Seems it happened not too long ago. 

 

For the people and by the people.

Our current prez is people. Not a professional politician. We need more like that.

I like a guy that can make a decision without worrying about reputation.