Future of the antique car hobby

[trimacar]

Just called on a Super 8 engine and transmission that's for sale, it's still in the 1605 convertible sedan that it came in.

 

I'm not mad anymore, about nice cars getting butchered, just getting resigned to the fate of a lot of the nice cars out there.  Fellow said he was taking the engine out and putting in an LS5 Corvette engine, just like he did to all the old cars that had no good (of the time) engines.  He's a hot rod kinda guy, got this car through Gateway who is a dealer in old cars.  This will be the end result of a lot of big Classics, as people with money and no respect for history keep coming out of the woodwork.

 

I'd be tempted to buy the engine, but in talking to him, I asked about shipping, and he stated "nah, man, when I sell these engines someone comes and picks them up".....so that lets me out.  I'm 800 miles away.  I know distance is an excuse, but when you're dealing with a whole car then distance is easily overcome, but when one is talking parts it's tough.  Talking with him didn't inspire any confidence.  Oh well.

 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1938-packard-super-8-engine-and-transmission/273153976466?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

Wow, what a nice Packard phaeton to ruin for the $5000 engine price!

I see that his Ebay user name is "Carlover1954."

I'd hate to see what a "Carhater" would do!

[John_S_in_Penna]

I've often thought, if I would ever sell a car, that I

would put some restrictions in the contract to make

sure it went to a good home.  They would have to

be enforceable in some manner.  And a good, sincere

buyer should have no problem whatsoever with

these conditions:

 

"This car shall not be sold, leased, loaned, or resold

for 36 months after the purchase."

 

"This car shall be kept in factory-authentic condition

for as long as the buyer owns the car.  No non-factory

modifications shall be made."  

 

I wonder if the seller of that car knew what the current

owner would do with that beautiful Packard.

Ruining history isn't good stewardship of an antique.

[SC38dls]

Trimacar. 800 miles isn’t so bad. It’s the St Louis area so you could always stop in the Budweiser brewery and have a foreign owned beer ? or two ?. 

What a shame to ruin a classic. I guess that could apply to the car and the beer 

Dave S 

[trimacar]

I'd be tempted to go the 800 miles, if my conversation with the fellow had been more positive.  I encourage anyone on this forum to call him, his number is in the Ebay listing, and give me your opinion of the call....

[Matt Harwood]

I still think he will be unhappy with the value of that Packard with an LS1 in it. Yes, some cars can be "improved" and become more valuable, but serious Full Classics haven't reached that point and I honestly don't think they will. In fact, I think he's making a big mistake as 1935-1939 Packard convertible sedans are RED HOT right now. Most S8s are bringing 6-figures without too much difficulty and the 12s are a quarter-million pretty regularly. Turning that into some kind of resto-mod home-built turd will hurt the car's value and he can't possibly pour enough cash into it to make that not happen.

 

Check out the mid-30s Cadillac convertible sedan on eBay right now with like a $450,000 asking price. You'll literally LOL.

 

In my business, I go to a lot of different events, from AACA and CCCA to Goodguys and NHRA. And with the exception of the CLC national meet last summer, I have yet to see more than one of these expensive Full Classic rods actually show up at an event and it's usually zero. There are guys building them thinking that there are buyers out there hungering for such a thing and who believe that they can make a ton of money off of that sucker, but the truth seems to be that the guys with money either want a scratch-built Foose-type creation or a correctly restored Full Classic. These bastardizations don't seem to have a target market--they're an answer to a question nobody is asking.

Edited April 18, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

It's a very sad state of affairs.  The price of these cars has risen to the point enthusiasts can no longer afford them. That is people who will accept their perceived shortcoming and enjoy them for what they are. Instead they are now the domain of financially successful , take charge people who will let no perceived design inadequacy  get in the way of their goals. Regardless of how the achievement of their goals impacts a historic object. They worked hard , were smart in their endeavors, and are now going to enjoy the fruits of their position in life on their own terms.

 If wishes were horses, beggars would own Super Eights.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited April 18, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Agreed he will be in for a rude awakening when he goes to sell his "creation".    The market for 35-39 open Packards is pretty well established.  Based on the car and condition you can pretty much figure what the car will bring.   I'm not sure there is any market for what he is doing and I'm  not sure the finished product will bring anything.

[13CADDY]

Matt,have you tried the Street Rod Nationals in Louisville ?   I see plenty of resto-mods every year, but not full classics--My friend that comes to mine has a 32 Studebaker  President 4dr with a big block Chev--  Tom

[1912Staver]

Using this years Barret - Jackson as a yardstick there is a market for modified vintage cars. A market that is surprisingly willing to part with cash. They just aren't the people we normally associate with classic Packard's. 

 But it is all part of the evolution the hobby is going through.  I had to accept that cars like Vertical eight Stutz's had evolved in price beyond my means.  We also have to accept that people who can afford Classic Stutz's and Packard's these days are sometimes quite different people than the previous generation of enthusiast owners.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited April 18, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

1 minute ago, 13CADDY said:

Matt,have you tried the Street Rod Nationals in Louisville ?   I see plenty of resto-mods every year, but not full classics--My friend that comes to mine has a 32 Studebaker  President 4dr with a big block Chev--  Tom

 

Yes, there are plenty of what I call (without meaning any offense) "garden variety" Full Classic resto-mods, mostly sedans and low-cost Full Classics. Plenty of 4-doors from orphan brands and Classics which, if restored to stock, might be $35,000 cars at best.

 

What I'm talking about instead are the rods like the one this guy intends to build out of the Super 8 Packard convertible sedan or the Cadillac I mentioned on eBay. Those are cars with cubic dollars poured into them and which, ironically, are still probably worth less than they would be restored. And they are NOT popular. There isn't a market for those cars. And it has been my experience that the guys building these cars don't want them because they want them, they just like the thrill of the build. I am optimistic that this will act as a throttle on the process of cutting up finished Full Classics.

 

On the other hand, it also seems that the guy in Trimacar's conversation is enjoying the idea of sticking his thumb in our collective eyes most of all, and he might just be doing it for that reason alone. It wouldn't be unique to him. Our whole country is currently operating on the "piss off the other guy no matter the cost to me" attitude.

 

Yes, there are plenty of Packard 726 sedans and Studebaker Presidents and Cadillac 60 Special rods. But I see few of these high-end rods out in the open, I see none of them actually trading hands, and I suspect that every single one is a money-loser for its builder, probably a big one. The guys who can afford such a thing will either try to build it themselves or will prefer a restored car with a proven track record of value to protect their investment. So many people assume that rich car guys are foolish. It's almost [almost] always a mistake.

[JoelsBuicks]

2 hours ago, trimacar said:

I'm not mad anymore, about nice cars getting butchered, just getting resigned to the fate of a lot of the nice cars out there. 

It’s good you’re not angered because there’s not a darn thing you can do about it.  I don’t like it either but there’s a lot of unrestored old cars out there that won’t be touched because of cost vs. value.

 

 

[Paul Dobbin]

Hey guys, ease up.  The buyer if any, will be an antique car guy who needs a stock engine and another old car will get back on the road.  What's wrong with that?  The car it came out of may also become an attractive Resto-Mod that looks great until the hood is opened, unless you are street rodder then it will be cool.

I have a close friend with a  restored 1931 Cadillac  Fleetwood V12 (Former 1970 Glidden Tour car) that runs but I can't follow him because the gas fumes are overwhelming.  Nobody has been able to get it to run right and he's thinking of putting a 454 Chevy in it.  I'd rather see him spend the money on having somebody else fix the V12.  But, I don't know anyone who can fix it.  He even tried a high end restoration shop in Florida and it was no better after a large expense.  Anybody want to buy a V12?

Edited April 19, 2018 by Paul Dobbin
added pictures (see edit history)

[TN2Lane]

What body style is the Fleetwood?

[Joe in Canada]

Here is 1931 Cadillac convertible coupe also that is going to hit the butcher block. Notice how some of the dealers that are getting over excited vying for a shot at buying the spoils.

 

[1935Packard]

6 hours ago, trimacar said:

  This will be the end result of a lot of big Classics, as people with money and no respect for history keep coming out of the woodwork.

 

 

I think the biggest problem facing the big Classics is the cost and difficulty of keeping them on the road.  It may not be the end of the world if, over time, there are modifications to certain cars that make it easier and cheaper to keep them on the road. Of course it's painful for those of us on this board, who tend to obsess over everything being right and correct.  And it may be a bizarre decision from a current market value perspective, as Matt points out.  But as it gets harder to keep these cars on the road, fewer of them will be on the road; it may be that modified cars end up being the most used and driven, which is at least something.

[alsancle]

6 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

 

I think the biggest problem facing the big Classics is the cost and difficulty of keeping them on the road.

 

The gradual but steady erosion in mechanical skills is the number one threat to the car hobby.  I think there will always be skilled mechanics for the people that can pay them.  But the guy with a 34 Buck sedan is not going to be able to afford that, and if he doesn't have the skills himself to maintain the car - what happens?

[edinmass]

10 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Hey guys, ease up.  The buyer if any, will be an antique car guy who needs a stock engine and another old car will get back on the road.  What's wrong with that?  The car it came out of may also become an attractive Resto-Mod that looks great until the hood is opened, unless you are street rodder then it will be cool.

I have a close friend with a  restored 1931 Cadillac  Fleetwood V12 (Former 1970 Glidden Tour car) that runs but I can't follow him because the gas fumes are overwhelming.  Nobody has been able to get it to run right and he's thinking of putting a 454 Chevy in it.  I'd rather see him spend the money on having somebody else fix the V12.  But, I don't know anyone who can fix it.  He even tried a high end restoration shop in Florida and it was no better after a large expense.  Anybody want to buy a V12?

 

I can easily fix that V-12. So can others. It's not impossible, you just need someone familiar with the car and it's fuel system. Also fix the distributor issues it has.....yup it has a problem there also. I have driven thousands of miles in early Cadillacs, and when properly set up, they are fine. On a CCCA Caravan in Ohio in the 90's I passed a 1941 Sixty Special with my 31 Cadillac sedan. At the next stop, he insisted I open the hood and show him the carb figuring it was a modern unit. As everyone knows, all my cars run factory stock components, and I can assure you ALL my car run great.........ask any of the countless forum members who have driven them. Just a few weeks ago I drove a 1930 Cadillac 16 down 95 from Palm Beach to Boca at 65 mph.......... bone stock car and all was fine........and enjoyable. 

 

The main reason MOST pre war cars don't run well is simple..........it's LOTS OF WORK to make them run right. Most people give up long before they get it right............ but I must admit it doesn't bother me too much, as often I can buy a car for very reasonable money after the current owner is frustrated with working on it. There are several shops that specialize in sorting cars to drive. They are very good at it, and it's ALWAYS very expensive. Why is it so expensive? Simple, there is always lots more wrong with the car than almost anyone can comprehend. Recently a customer purchased a 100 point world class Pebble Beach first in class car. I drove it 200 miles and made a list of thirty things to fix JUST FOR STARTERS. Total time it fix the car was about 300 hours.........not including purchasing correct parts. The car had what appeared to be a correct carb and distributor, it wasn't. Oil leaks, incorrect bolts and fittings, leaking shocks, the list was endless. Problem is almost no owners are willing to wright the check to make the car as new. To drop 50 thousand sorting a major CCCA Classic is to be expected after it's been sitting ten years. Does anyone think that in 1931 Cadillac could sell a car that wouldn't start hot or cold? Or have a vibration? Or any other bad habit? I don't carry tools in my old cars........because when they are properly prepared the usually wont let you down. If I suffer a breakdown I am quite sure what ever it is I won't be able to fix it road side. I rather service and prepare the car correctly and make repairs back at the shop.......... Ed

[60FlatTop]

If some guy came into my garage and started putting an LS engine in my '64 Riviera I would be really pissed.

 

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

The gradual but steady erosion in mechanical skills is the number one threat to the car hobby.

 

Always taking things literally, I think erosion is not the right word. Stifled, atrophied, undeveloped, maybe those are more appropriate. That is kind of what I have been seeing at cruise ins. Lots of 60-ish guys who cashed in their company "savings and investment plan" and bought some chrome wheels with base coat/clear coat metal on them. AND the obligatory Hard Rock Cafe shirt with a CD of Vietnam era rock music. Not they I would stereotype anyone, I only do generalizations.

 

I strongly agree that the growing lack of hobbyist skills has changed the hobby, to the point where I notice peer groups segmenting between the skilled and unskilled. The unskilled are usually talking about the latest Discovery Channel show like it was real.

 

It has been cold around here for way too long and it is not even comfortable in the garage. I'm sitting here with these God Awful white fingernails and skin; I feel like my hands are going albino. I hope my mechanical skills don't freeze up.

 

Back to the topic Packard. The owner's Ebay name is Carlover1954. My guess is the guy is 64 years old and there is a 6 year old Harley sitting near it. Some kind of Hard Rock Cafe item is hanging in the garage and THAT music plays all the time. The Packard will be disassembled and, after the lawsuit to recover the car, the remainder of the Packard will be sold to close out the estate.

 

If it wasn't for generalities there wouldn't be no stereotypes at all. My Wife says people weren't put on Earth solely for my entertainment, but.....

Bernie

[Steve_Mack_CT]

These prewar, non Ford (traditional hot rods, imho are a different animal, like a vintage race car.) "Improved for modern use" builds will be white elephants, CCCA or not, once the very narrow market for them ages out. 

 

Talk about a challenge to sort, mechanic would have to be a pretty good detective, i would think, when an unidentified driveline or chassis component fails 10 years down the road.  The guy who does brakes, tires and oil changes on new cars won't have a clue, or desire to deal with it.  Maybe some restoration shops will open up to that kind of work?   Eh, maybe some will be reclaimed for parts in the future...

Edited April 18, 2018 by Steve_Mack_CT (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

26 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I can easily fix that V-12. So can others.

 

A couple decades ago I got the dynamo system on Mike Rothchild's 1912 Rambler working after the car being crank started for, probably, 40 years or more. If I didn't have some experience with turn of the century elevator equipment it would have been harder.

Bernie

[Rusty_OToole]

In 10 or 20 years an old Chev engine will be worth nothing and the car it is in will be worth nothing. While an original car will be worth more than ever.

 

Wonder what happened to all those teal colored roadsters with gray tweed Honda seats Target Master motors and billet wheels from the 80s. You never see them at shows anymore. They don't even turn up in the for sale ads. Did they all get crushed for scrap while the original cars gain in value?

[1912Staver]

14 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

In 10 or 20 years an old Chev engine will be worth nothing and the car it is in will be worth nothing. While an original car will be worth more than ever.

 

Wonder what happened to all those teal colored roadsters with gray tweed Honda seats Target Master motors and billet wheels from the 80s. You never see them at shows anymore. They don't even turn up in the for sale ads. Did they all get crushed for scrap while the original cars gain in value?

Some are sitting at the back of a garage under a car cover and some have been rebuilt in to a more contemporary appearance. You know, 1950's or 1960's style like all the better modern builds. The 1980's are just so yesterday.

  But I doubt too many have been crushed.  I am not really a rod guy unless you count Speedsters or circa 1948 build prewar cars.

 

Greg in Canada

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[Pomeroy41144]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 I can assure you ALL my car run great.........ask any of the countless forum members who have driven them. Just a few weeks ago I drove a 1930 Cadillac 16 down 95 from Palm Beach to Boca at 65 mph.......... bone stock car and all was fine........and enjoyable. 

 

.......... Ed

 

 

Wow.  Sounds thrilling.  I love vintage motoring--just like a time machine. 

 

I wish I was one of those lucky forum members. 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Greg, those categories have a historic link.  Your right, they are different animals.  Lots of young blood interested in authentic speedster or trad hot rods, not sure thats the case for 30s sedans with at, cruise control and such.  Bernie hit this one dead on.

 

 

[Pomeroy41144]

25 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

In 10 or 20 years an old Chev engine will be worth nothing and the car it is in will be worth nothing. While an original car will be worth more than ever.

 

Wonder what happened to all those teal colored roadsters with gray tweed Honda seats Target Master motors and billet wheels from the 80s. You never see them at shows anymore. They don't even turn up in the for sale ads. Did they all get crushed for scrap while the original cars gain in value?

 

 

Probably rebuilt as another street rod.  Like Matt says, these guys are in it for the thrill of the build. 

 

They are not "carlovers". 

[poci1957]

14 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

What I'm talking about instead are the rods like the one this guy intends to build out of the Super 8 Packard......they are NOT popular. There isn't a market for those cars. And it has been my experience that the guys building these cars don't want them because they want them, they just like the thrill of the build. I am optimistic that this will act as a throttle on the process of cutting up finished Full Classics.

 

On the other hand, it also seems that the guy in Trimacar's conversation is enjoying the idea of sticking his thumb in our collective eyes most of all, and he might just be doing it for that reason alone. It wouldn't be unique to him. Our whole country is currently operating on the "piss off the other guy no matter the cost to me" attitude.

 

13 hours ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Hey guys, ease up.  

I have a close friend with a  restored 1931 Cadillac  Fleetwood V12..............that runs but I can't follow him because the gas fumes are overwhelming.  Nobody has been able to get it to run right and he's thinking of putting a 454 Chevy in it............I don't know anyone who can fix it. 

 

Two great points from Matt Harwood above.  I only hope he is right about the market itself becoming its own brake on the practice above.  Unfortunately I think he is definitely right about the guy “sticking his thumb in our collective eyes” just to stroke his own ego.  I see lots of that here in the Midwest, home of “carlover1954” and thousands more like him.  Bernie’s observations are spot on that this seems to be all about 60 somethings with retirement cash to blow stoked on by cable TV reality shows.  A thumb in our eyes indeed.    

 

Some hobbyists are, however, like Paul’s friend above with the Cadillac V12.  Not blustery, ego-driven “thumb in the eye” types but just can't or don’t want to deal with old car issues.  I get that a lot in the 1950s Pontiac world.  They say they will remove the original components because they can’t get parts or service; untrue of course.  What they really mean is they can’t get 1957 Pontiac parts at Autozone or rebuild a Jetaway Hydramatic at their local transmission shop, both usually are true.  Their buddy carlover1954 or a half-a** wannabe restoration shop only knows (sort of) how to drop in an LS1 so that is all they hear discussion about. 

 

Edinmass correctly asks do we really think in 1931 Cadillac sold a new car that would not start or run right?  Exactly right, of course not, likewise with 1950s Pontiacs.  But fixing the original installation would require finding a good old-fashioned shop or at least buying a $40 shop manual, reading it and educating yourself and that is much less fun than proclaiming your manliness in putting a Corvette V8 in a Packard Super 8.  Going to the next step, many of us here have been around large 1930s convertible sedans, right?  In your experience will that big open body with that big top react well to tearing around propelled by a 500 hp V8?  Anyone care to take that car to 100 mph?  Not me, it is ridiculous to think about.  Even car guy Tim Allen in a recent Car & Driver interview said that in his 40 years experience with street rods most had problems and design flaws that made them almost never drive well.  Oh well, rant over.  Like trimacar said I am trying to numb myself to being angry about these things and just accepting them as inevitable in the modern world, Todd C     

 

 

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Gotta repower that 61 Lincoln so it can do highway speeds... ?

[Matt Harwood]

Todd makes a good point--a lot of these "upgrades" are happening because mechanics don't know how to fix old cars, so their first step to fix them is to install an engine they know how to fix. It's backed-up by a whole generation of guys who buy into the idea that old cars are neither reliable nor easy to fix and that you need to be some kind of exotic specialist to keep a carburetor tuned and points adjusted. Yes, it's harder than plugging in a scan tool and having the computer tell you what to replace, but it ain't rocket surgery. Blacksmiths used to make these cars run, after all.

 

I hear that same kind of feedback once in a while when I sell an old car--an inexperienced buyer calls to say that the car "won't run." I ask him what it's doing and when he says, "I turned the key and it didn't start," or "It came off the trailer and won't run right," I know he doesn't understand that an old car won't behave like his new Lexus. Turn the key and it idles perfectly--that's a new car thing and it's becoming an expectation for all cars now. Even old guys seem to have forgotten that even as recently as the 1980s, cars didn't start instantly in 10-degree weather and they didn't idle perfectly when they were cold. But that's the expectation and it is what is driving a lot of this urge to "upgrade" the cars. They don't understand and aren't willing to take the time to learn that old cars are different, not inferior.

 

That said, I have twice won $5 at a cruise night by betting guys that my 1929 Cadillac would start faster than their new fuel-injected Corvettes. I know that if it has been driven in the past 12 hours, my Cadillac will start in half a turn, every time. BRR-VROOOM! I also know that a new Corvette needs two full revolutions of the engine so the computer can read the reluctor wheel on the crank to determine which injectors and plugs to fire and another revolution to activate the injectors and fire the engine. Suckers. 

 

Yes, I spent a shiatload of time tweaking, tuning, fussing over that Cadillac, but now that it's set up, it has stayed that way and has never once let me down in more than 10,000 miles of driving. Not. Once.

 

One other point that someone else made that I repeat frequently: the reason your daily driver is reliable is because you drive it daily. Expecting a car that you drive twice a year to act properly is just plain unreasonable.

 

 

Edited April 18, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Restorer32]

We had a Model T here that would start on compression. Run it a while then let it sit for an hour or more then just turn on the ignition and it would fire up. Most of my employees, being "young" (under 50) were totally amazed. Frankly, I have to disagree a bit that the hobby is in trouble. We are busier with restorations than we have ever been,  just hired another guy,  and if anything our clientele is getting younger. 

[Grimy]

7 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

That said, I have twice won $5 at a cruise night by betting guys that my 1929 Cadillac would start faster than their new fuel-injected Corvettes. I know that if it has been driven in the past 12 hours, my Cadillac will start in half a turn, every time. BRR-VROOOM!

I'm gonna have to add to my beer fund with your idea, using my 1918 Pierce.  With its conservative valve timing and pressurized fuel delivery system, it will light off in less than half a turn hot, slightly more cold after having rested for a month during the winter--the latter because I've learned just how much hand throttle to apply at under those different conditions.  And 200 rpm at a hot idle with spark retarded tends to amaze watchers.

[KongaMan]

6 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

The gradual but steady erosion in mechanical skills is the number one threat to the car hobby.  I think there will always be skilled mechanics for the people that can pay them.

 

As a supporting anecdote, I live in a unincorporated area next to a city of 60,000.  There isn't a single auto parts store in town.  Twenty years ago there were several  No one around here knows how to fix anything.  Even the mechanics are all but gone, driven out by landlords cashing in to build townhouses, McMansions, or the third Starbucks on the block.

 

As for my needs: thank God for Rock Auto.

[KongaMan]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Todd makes a good point--a lot of these "upgrades" are happening because mechanics don't know how to fix old cars, so their first step to fix them is to install an engine they know how to fix.

 

That's the way it is these days.  "It can't be done" usually means "I can't do it", so they go with what they know, whether that be mechanical (e.g. installing a different carb) or cosmetic (e.g. spraying everything with base/clear).

 

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

I know that if it has been driven in the past 12 hours, my Cadillac will start in half a turn, every time.

 

I've got two cars that are 50+ years old.  If they've been run in the previous couple of days (i.e. if there's gas in the carb), they start with just a pop of the key.

[poci1957]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

Frankly, I have to disagree a bit that the hobby is in trouble. We are busier with restorations than we have ever been,  just hired another guy,  and if anything our clientele is getting younger. 

 

Glad to hear it, very glad.  Of course I have always thought the AACA had more younger people interested than out here and that is a great thing.  Central PA has always had more activity in authentic old cars than the Midwest.  In central IL we are a wasteland of mediocre street rodding being the default choice in old car activity, Todd C    

[Joe in Canada]

Are the HCCA regions having a younger generation joining in.  I am an avid viewer of there web page in cars for sale section and there seems to me a fair number of sales. I enquired about an EMF and a REO they were both sold in 48 Hr.  

[DB26]

I'm 29 and my father is 55. I have a 1926 Dodge Brothers with a 4 cylinder and my father has a 1969 Dodge Dart with a 273. He is always telling me how good a v8 would look in my Dodge and I'm always telling him how wrong he is. And how wrong it would be to do a thing like that. I am a huge stickler for originality. If it's not stock, it's not for me. 

Edited April 18, 2018 by DB26 (see edit history)

[Joe in Canada]

1 hour ago, Restorer32 said:

We are busier with restorations than we have ever been

Just curious but what percentage of pre war cars that are being restored today are actually being re restored.

[poci1957]

8 minutes ago, DB26 said:

I'm 29 and my father is 55. I have a 1926 Dodge Brothers with a 4 cylinder ....He is always telling me how good a v8 would look in my Dodge and I'm always telling him how wrong he is. And how wrong it would be to do a thing like that. I am a huge stickler for originality. If it's not stock, it's not for me. 

 

Good for you, great to hear it! 

 

 

[Restorer32]

16 minutes ago, Joe in Canada said:

Just curious but what percentage of pre war cars that are being restored today are actually being re restored.

Well, we are doing an '09 that has never been restored as well as a 1918 Rauch and Lang Electric out of long term storage that has never been restored as well as a Model A Sedan and a  a '42 Packard that have never been restored. Of course more and more of our work  is post war these days as with most shops. I thought we would never get paid to restore another Model A given the cost of labor these days. Sentimental value means a lot.

[charlier]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Todd makes a good point--a lot of these "upgrades" are happening because mechanics don't know how to fix old cars, so their first step to fix them is to install an engine they know how to fix. It's backed-up by a whole generation of guys who buy into the idea that old cars are neither reliable nor easy to fix and that you need to be some kind of exotic specialist to keep a carburetor tuned and points adjusted. Yes, it's harder than plugging in a scan tool and having the computer tell you what to replace, but it ain't rocket surgery. Blacksmiths used to make these cars run, after all.

 

A friend of mine is a automotive tech at a new car dealer who also happens to be an old car guy as well. Take on guess as to why he is their best tech and always gets the nightmare vehicles? Yup, he thinks outside of the scan tool box. Scan tools are great but they make many techs LAZY and are a BIG crutch for techs that CANNOT THINK for themselves. Over the years if I had money for every time my friend told me a story about a nightmare vehicle and found that the scan tool was giving misleading info you could EASILY pay for your next CCCA Annual Meeting with $$$ leftover.

 

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Even old guys seem to have forgotten that even as recently as the 1980s, cars didn't start instantly in 10-degree weather and they didn't idle perfectly when they were cold. But that's the expectation and it is what is driving a lot of this urge to "upgrade" the cars. They don't understand and aren't willing to take the time to learn that old cars are different, not inferior.

 

Heck my 1980 car didn't idle perfectly in 10 degree weather when it was new. After it was fully restored and it's carb was rebuilt it has run much better. Each of my vehicles (old and new) have their own quirks. I learned long ago to "listen" to each of them by rolling down the windows while driving. Between that and just the feel of the vehicle and how it performs I can usually tell if something isn't quite right.

 

I try to drive and/or run my vehicles as much as I can during the spring/summer/fall. Sadly it seems I always plan/long to do it more than I can.

Maybe that will change someday.

 

I consider myself lucky that I have a few friends that I can consult with when I am stumped by an issue with one of my old vehicles.

I am also very lucky that when I do not have the expertise or the tools or desire to do certain jobs I can take my vehicles to a family owned shop which can handle those jobs. The techs there like it when I bring in one of my old cars and are always happy to see the "old skool" stuff.