Psychobillycaddy Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Hello All! We have a new to us 49 Super Vert in the garage (Its the wifes toy, that Im sure is only part mine when she wants me to fix it.) It has a few gremlins and I was hoping you could help us out. This post is about my first hurdle, It has a starter issue. First some info. It is definitely 6 volt, in 2013 it was pedal start (which I plan to get working later on) but someone has recently installed a push button switch in the dash that sometimes clicks the solenoid even when the key is off, If you give it a 12 volt jump it fires right up and runs well with decent idle oil pressure, and amps. The solenoid looks to be new (see pic), The battery is a brand new Interstate Heavy Duty. I believe its either the push button setup or the solenoid that was installed is a 12V since it fires up when jumped with a 12V. I was thinking of using a jumper from the battery to the solenoid to bypass the push button and determine if that is my problem. I need to know if the solenoid is + or - ignition start in order to test this. Im assuming its + but I want to be sure. The solenoid boot is orange and looks like brand new. The solenoid has some lettering in sharpie which tells me its most likely a rebuild. Any thoughts on how to diagnose this? And in advance, I want to thank you for taking the time to help me be my wifes hero on this 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychobillycaddy Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Oh and it has the open vents for the engine bay. If you happen to know by the plate if this is an early model and they are original Id be interested in knowing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofalltrades70 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Remove and clean all battery cable terminals at battery, starter, where connects to frame and there should also be another metallic strap from the engine to firewall. Try that and a full charge on the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackofalltrades70 Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Very nice car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychobillycaddy Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Thank you. An update. I found the 48-49 shop manual online and if it is accurate, this is not the original solenoid. This one looks like it is a Delco 3 terminal Grounded Base from what Google found. This one has only one ignition relay lead and it is on the front of the solenoid. also the solenoid is round and not flat on top. The starter switch is wired up to the 30 amp map light fuse. My battery + jumper to the starter relay worked and it fired right up. I think the problem is in the switch wiring. Im going to get my meter out and see what amperage Im getting from the switch. Does anyone know what amps the ignition terminal needs on this Delco solenoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychobillycaddy Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 Oh and its for a Buick 8 cyl 51-53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychobillycaddy Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 The starter switch is getting 6 volts on the 30 amp circuit. Its putting out 2.5V. I read that the solenoid is supposed to close at 1.3-1.6. Im going to guess that the solenoid needs to be adjusted. Im probably going to just get a new one and check on the pedal vacuum switch to see if its working. Question, if I have to use temporarily the push button switch could I just wire in a rheostat to turn the voltage down to 1.6? Im assuming the excess voltage is what messed up the solenoid? Thanks again for any help you can provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Originally in addition to the carb start switch there was a starter relay in the circuit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 I think you found your problem. Your starter switch is bad. If it has 6v coming in, it should have 6v coming out. It does not act as a voltage reducer. The solenoid closing at 1.3 volts sounds very low, but I don't have a manual handy. I'm not aware of a voltage adjustment on a solenoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 On 4/8/2018 at 1:17 PM, Psychobillycaddy said: The starter switch is wired up to the 30 amp map light fuse. It looks like you have some new wires (in the picture showing your solenoid). So may I ask how much of the wiring system has been replaced? All, or partial? In any case, wiring the starter button to the map light fuse does not sound too safe. As you noted, that circuit is not protected by the ignition switch and results in the ability to crank the engine regardless of complete ignition. The preferred method for wiring the replacement starter button would be to route extensions of the two wires for the carburetor starter switch back through to the interior and then one wire goes to one side of the button and the other to the 2nd terminal. This would be enough to activate the system. More importantly since someone did this and since wires have been replaced, I'd be careful about whatever else may have been modified. I hope you keep the battery disconnected when not with the car, just in case something else is causing a drain or potential short circuit. If you disconnect the battery AND if you still have the points based voltage regulator, you would want to polarize the system when you reconnect the battery. This does not appear necessary if you have the transistorized voltage regulator. One other thing. Can you tell if you have the very thick sized 00 battery cables? I see the negative terminal looks like it's that size, but the positive cable looks to be a thinner wire in that same picture. I believe the 6 volt system must have the thicker battery cables for sufficient operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 JohnD, I think he is another that lost his way. Has not been back since the day he joined. Seems to happen a lot. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 7 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said: JohnD, I think he is another that lost his way. Has not been back since the day he joined. Seems to happen a lot. Ben Yes, you're probably right Ben. Just as well, I may be wrong about that heavy battery cable anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdmn852 Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 Hello, Commenting on early model Convertible,check the spare tire mount in trunk ,early 1949 lay flat on floor, later sit vertical in recess in trunk floor pan. also top boot area is a steel enclosure, later models have a canvas top well filler.The trunk lid is also different , later models are higher and squared off, early 49 look similar to the 1948 models .in fact early models are very similar to 1948 in regards to trunk area. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulajean Posted April 25, 2018 Share Posted April 25, 2018 (edited) The wife here... I forgive my husband for his insinuations. Thank you, everyone, for your input. Belated answers your questions: The wiring I can see all looks fairly new but we have not gone deep into the car yet. Yes, the starter button wiring set-up is questionable so we plan to reroute the wire for now. (Eventually, I want to remove it and put the starter back on the pedal where it belongs) The battery cables are correct size... so no worries there. The update is: My PsycoBC-hubby made some creative adjustments to the new solenoid and the car is starting. Tonight we set the timing. Edited April 25, 2018 by lulajean (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulajean Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 So... how long were you guys going to wait before you told me I can't use a digital timing light? LOL. ( I am currently in 'hurry up and wait' mode I ordered a battery powered light from Amazon) Lesson learned: I can't use digital anything on this car because of the generator interference... What else do I need to be proactive and buy for the toolbox now? Mothers day is coming up and I want to make a list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 18 minutes ago, lulajean said: I can't use digital anything on this car because of the generator interference... Does that digital equipment have a 6 volt mode? Are you still running points and condenser? If so you'll need some feeler gauges that cover at least from .017- .034. And a 6 volt tachometer. And a 6 volt test light, if they even make them anymore? You may also want a set of "thin walled" sockets in SAE sizes, if it is difficult to get a spark plug socket onto the plugs ( Early V8's had this issue, I am not experienced with the straight 8's) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulajean Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: Does that digital equipment have a 6 volt mode? Sorry John, I can't say. I read about the battery powered, 12V timing light (on the antique tractor, AACA, and the Cadillac forums) and bought one on Amazon. Yes to the points, etc. Thanks for tools list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 I believe I've read where 6 volt owners will run the 12 volt timing light off a separate battery not attached to the car. Of course that means another battery which would need to be kept charged, or parking a 12 volt vehicle close enough while using your digital equipment. The 12 volt battery one ought to work just as good though, but in my opinion, it's kinda crazy to buy an expensive tool you may use once and never use again. Never-the -less, what's done is done. Carry on, and let us know how it works for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lulajean Posted April 29, 2018 Share Posted April 29, 2018 The battery-powered timing light by FLAMING RIVER sells on Amazon for $60 and I can use it on the old bikes, so won't go to waste. We lost all of our tools (and much more) in a garage & shop fire a few years ago- it's a long, heartbreaking story that I won't go into.... anyways, I expect to be buying tools for a long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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