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Tire replacement questions - 1929 Model 135

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I would appreciate advice on what I am clearly missing in replacing an inner tube and tire.

 

I made my first attempt to replace a tire  (19 inch split rim on a wood wheel) on my 1929 Model 135.

 

Removing the wheel, collapsing the rim, removing the top bead of the tire and then removing the inner tube was very straightforward.

 

What I could not determine was how to remove the bottom bead of the tire to completely remove the tire from the rim.

 

The problem was the flap.  The flap extends well up into the tire and is very stiff.  I could not get the flap outside of the bottom tire bead, such that I could then lever under the bottom bead of the tire to remove it from the rim.

 

And, the flap is far to stiff and fit the rim too tight to pull it out.  Given the existing tire was 6-ply, the tire itself provided little "give", but I do not think I could have removed the flap, in any event.

 

Ultimately, I had to cut the tire in half to remove it from the rim (The tire was already torn and completely unusable, so at least I did not ruin an otherwise usable tire).

 

As I mentioned, the flap fits the rim very tightly and the sides extend at least two inches of the top of the rim.  The flap itself is very stiff and  in very good condition.  It looks new (I know it is not).

 

I simply can not believe this was engineered to be this difficult.  I realize I must be missing something obvious.

 

As I need to put a different tire and tube onto this rim, I would appreciate advice on how to do this properly.

 

My questions:

 

1) I realize that I will slightly inflate the inner tube and place it in the tire before levering the rear bead of the tire onto the rim.  I presume that I leave the flap on the rim (I think it would be difficult to lever it onto the rim with the tire and tube, but I do not know)?  If so, what is the proper way to get the flap under the rear bead of the tire?

I have the proper 3-armed Franklin tool for collapsing and then expanding the rim.  Otherwise, I am using pry bars and large screwdrivers.

 

2) If I am to remove a tire to replace or repair tubes or tires in the future, what is the proper method to remove the bottom bead of the tire from the rim?  How do you get the sides of the flap away from the bottom bead to lever under the bead and remove the tire from the rim?

Do any of you trim the sides of the flaps, so they do not extend so far into the side of the tire.

 

Thanks for any guidance.  This is really puzzling me.

 

Jim

 

 

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With the tire off the rim you inset the tube into the tire and then the flap into the tire.  The long sides on the flap should prevent you from pinching the tube when you mount the tire.  The rim might be collapsed enough to mount the tire by just using a little soap or rubber lubricant and using your hands (most rims I have seen are like this).

Otherwise you need (and should only use) two or three proper tire spoons.  Not modern tire irons like the ones used to murder people.  With the rim on the ground and starting at the valve stem press the tire over the lip into the rim.  When you can no longer do this with your hand or by stepping on the tire use the spoons to lever the tire into place.

Pull the valve stem through the hole in the rim and repeat the process of working the tire over the rim edge the same way as the first side.

Expand the rim, make sure the stem is straight and inflate the tire.

With practice you can jack the car up, remove the rim and tire, collapse the rim, change the tire, tube and flap, remount and replace the rim on the wheel and have the car back on the ground in no more than 15 minutes.

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There is some good period instructions on tire removal from split rims in the Franklin news letter number 156, June 2017 located on the members only section of the Franklin website. To fix a puncture in a tube you must remove the tire, tube and flap as a complete assembly from the rim when ever you are working with split rims or rims with rings. The only type of rim that you can remove and repair a tube without removing the complete tire is a drop center or depressed center rim and Franklin didn't use any of those.

 

Bill 

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I have a further question for removing the tire, tube and liner from the split rim.

 

My question:

When attempting to remove the tire from the split rim:

1) am I trying to remove the tire from the rim? 

or.........

2) am I trying to remove the rim from the tire?

 

I can get the top bead of the tire off the rim, but I am having a very difficult time removing the bottom bead (with the flap and tube) from the rim to free the entire tire, tube and flap assembly as a single unit.

 

I still feel I am missing something obvious?

 

Thank you

Jim

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Your removing the rim from the tire. It sounds like your not pulling the rim inside itself far enough with the rim tool. It really isn't that hard to remove the rim from the tire, tube and flap assembly. Remember that after you pull the rim inside it's self with the rim tool you do not take the tool off the rim before removing it from the tire. Some times you may need to re-position the rim tool, but it's used to hold the rim in smaller for ease of removal from the tire.

Bill

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Thank you, Bill

 

It helps to know that I am removing the rim from the tire.

 

I was concerned to potentially bend the rim by pulling in too far, and I did remove the tool before trying to remove the tire.

 

I will follow your advice, and I should have better luck.  

 

Thanks again.

 

Jim

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I thought you may appreciate this - and these are the more easy lockring type - 1932 Packard Twin Six 7 Passenger Sedan.  Car got a new set of 6 - Bedford Double Whitewalls.

 

No, not a Lumber Jack or Paul Bunyan, but a rather surprised (did not see my camera coming) James from Grismere Tire in Downtown Dayton. He was just coming back from a truck roadside repair when I called and begged for help. Problem was the tires were 8 ply truck and could have stood on their owwn without air - HAAAAAAAAARRRRD as a Rock. The bead on each tire excepting the one original Firestone spare was almost 1 1/2 inches thick each (not much room when you also have an area on a 4 1/2 inch rim that has a metal valve stem through it. James had all the proper tools and basically resorted to brute force. He spent nearly 3 hours to demount 6 tires.

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John, I've never had that much trouble with lockring rims. BUT, I've never had to deal with 8 ply tires and narrow rims and I don't ever wish to. The thing that worries me the most is inflating them. I know it's only 35-40 PSI but a lockring can be deadly even at that. You need a lock on extension air hose and plenty of room (or a cage which is better).

 

Bill

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On 5/13/2018 at 4:08 PM, hook said:

John, I've never had that much trouble with lockring rims. BUT, I've never had to deal with 8 ply tires and narrow rims and I don't ever wish to. The thing that worries me the most is inflating them. I know it's only 35-40 PSI but a lockring can be deadly even at that. You need a lock on extension air hose and plenty of room (or a cage which is better).

 

Bill

Take them to a truck tire store with a cage and have them inflated.  And, if you do yourself do not do anything fast and do not face the ring - even the commercial tire guys reach around from the backside.  By the way - new tires were not mounted that day on the Packard - wheels were restored, lock rings replated, and ..... (and they were inflated  in a cage !).

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On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 11:45 AM, John_Mereness said:

Take them to a truck tire store with a cage and have them inflated.  And, if you do yourself do not do anything fast and do not face the ring - even the commercial tire guys reach around from the backside.  By the way - new tires were not mounted that day on the Packard - wheels were restored, lock rings replated, and ..... (and they were inflated  in a cage !).

 

No need for a cage or other contraptions. Many car owners already have a cheap, portable, and safe method in their car,........ their tow rope or strap.

 

After the snap ring is in place, lace a 1/2 nylon rope snuggly around the tire and rim, also passing it between the spokes. Make at least a dozen or more turns spaced out around the tire.  Tie the ends off and inflate the tire. If the ring should come loose the 1/2 inch rope is more than strong enough to retain it and prevent you getting hit with it.  

 

Paul

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As PFitz says or put the wheel flat on the ground under the brake drum and lower the car down until the brake drum sits on the wheel.  We should all try to be more specific when we talk about "split rims" or wheels with "lock rings".  Most truck tire places talk about "split rims" when the really mean wheels with "lock rings".  True split rims (crosswise split) are as safe as anything to change but "lock rings" are more dangerous than anything you will work with on your/our antique car.

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Paul, 

 

Thanks for the tip about using a tow rope. I've been using a length of chain for protection, but your way is a lot less scratchy.

 

My goal this summer is to put new tires, flaps and tubes on my '21 9B touring. I've done two tire repairs before. The first time it took me hours and hours and hours (my pride won't let you know how long it actually took). The second time took only about 2-3 hours. This time, I'm ready. I'm counting on only 1 hour per wheel.

 

You actually have to do the job a few time before you understand what everyone is trying to tell you. And then it's simple.  It's a Zen thing.

 

You are one with the lock ring.

 

 

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21 hours ago, RansomEli said:

Paul, 

 

Thanks for the tip about using a tow rope. I've been using a length of chain for protection, but your way is a lot less scratchy.

 

My goal this summer is to put new tires, flaps and tubes on my '21 9B touring. I've done two tire repairs before. The first time it took me hours and hours and hours (my pride won't let you know how long it actually took). The second time took only about 2-3 hours. This time, I'm ready. I'm counting on only 1 hour per wheel.

 

You actually have to do the job a few time before you understand what everyone is trying to tell you. And then it's simple.  It's a Zen thing.

 

You are one with the lock ring.

 

 

Split rings I don't mind, but I used to hate having to wrestle and curse with the early split rims. Zen I got a split rim tool and now I'm a lot more Karma. 

 

Paul

Edited by PFitz (see edit history)

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Paul, I'm with you on that. My first bout with split rims on a 30 Chevy without the rim tool back in the sixties when I was a teenager. My thought then was "what idiot invented these things?" Then I learned about the tool and got one. What a revelation! It's amazing how well things go with the right equipment.

 

Bill

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Having used the great advice provided to learn to remove and reinstall tires, tubes and flaps........

 

I am now requesting recommendations for new tire and tube purchases for my 1929 Franklin Model 135?

 

Questions for tire size 6.50 x 19:

1) Preferred dealers?  

I have no previous experience or bias with any of the classic tire dealers. I live in California and could potentially pick the tires up from dealers in the state, eg Lucas tire.

 

2) Preferred brand of tire?

     Is there any chance of something being manufactured in the U.S.?

 

3) Preferred supplier of tubes?  

     Is there a quality tube supplier available?  

I see tubes priced between $27-$58.  Are they different?

 

I have read that some folks have used modern light truck tire tubes, but I do not know, if such would exist in the 19 inch size?

 

Any thoughts or experience?

 

4). Whitewall or Blackwall?

I have read the new whitewalls are

poorly made and the whitewall begins to immediately discolor to tan and can not be readily bleached to white?

 

5). Potential to request tires recently manufactured?

 

 I have read that some suppliers will ship “new” tires that are already several years old.

Thoughts or experiences to avoid this?

 

6). I saw an offering of a radial in this size?

Is a radial a viable consideration

for this vehicle?  

 

I have the wood spoke wheels on my car.  I do not have overdrive or different rear end gears, so my cruising speed seems to only be approximately 41 mph.

 

I am not trying to go the cheapest route and would like to do tire changes and repairs as little as possible.  I can now do the repairs, but it still requires an hour or more per wheel.

 

I will be regularly driving my car.

 

Thanks for any thoughts or advice.

 

Jim

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm ready to read all the replies on tires, but I don't think I'll touch it myself. It' kinda like getting into a discussion on oil!

 

Good Luck

Bill

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1) I bought mine from Lucas tire                                                                                                                                                                                                                      2) Custom Classic                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  3) New tubes are junk compared to old ones but you really do not have a choice .                                                                                                                  4) Blackwall                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              5)Yes you want new tires                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    6)I think Excelsior and another company makes radials in that size. I  do not know anything about them. I think a couple club members have them on their cars. Hopefully they will answer .                                                                                                                                                                             This is what I did on my 29  130.  Just my thoughts . Have a great day 

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Get blackwalls. Franklins were never flashy cars and they just look better. 

 

From experience, new inner tubes can fail within 100 miles. It can be your fault if you installed them improperly, but even if you did everything correctly the stem can sheer off. Make sure you keep receipts. When I brought my claim to the tire dealer (nationally known) he expressed absolutely no surprise, like it happens all the time. 

 

I will need tires soon for my '29, so I'm also interested in the responses you get. The car had whitewalls when I bought it but I'm going for blackwalls. 

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I run Michelin's on my 29 130. Bought from Cocker. 25000 and still running great. Black walls (please)

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On 6/4/2018 at 7:14 PM, odat said:

How do you like the firestones?

Checking opinions for the 32

I've had 7.00-19 Firestones on my '32 for quite some time now. I really like the way the larger tires look. I don't have side mounts, and so don't have to worry about them fitting in the wells.

 

The car had Custom Classics prior, and they were terrible tires. They look great, but they follow ruts in the road, and generally handle poorly. They also cupped very early and were noisy, worn bald in under 10k miles.

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22 hours ago, Steve Braverman said:

I've had 7.00-19 Firestones on my '32 for quite some time now. I really like the way the larger tires look. I don't have side mounts, and so don't have to worry about them fitting in the wells.

 

The car had Custom Classics prior, and they were terrible tires. They look great, but they follow ruts in the road, and generally handle poorly. They also cupped very early and were noisy, worn bald in under 10k miles.

I totally agree on the Custom Classic tires. Best thing I did on the truck was to get away from them.  Now have 6.50x19 Lesters on the front with much less front wheel hunting by steering that has a mind of its' own.

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Am I able to use 7.00 x 19 tires on a 1929 Model 135?

 

I do not have sidemounts.

 

I have the wood wheels with collapsible rims.  The car currently has 6.50 x 19.

 

Would the 7.00 x 19 be any more difficult to mount than the 6.50 x 19 on my current collapsible rims?

 

Thanks

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