ICP not worky!

[Jerry Moriah]

Out of necessity, I recently started driving our 89 Reatta daily to my new job during my 90 day probationary period. Tranny went out on my Sentra, had only been using her as an emergency backup. I really need a fuel gauge working. The CRT and ICP used to come on when it was hot in the car, the Reatta was supposed to be my daughters car, but she has been driving my 09 Vibe due to the many issues with the Reatta. It used to be that the ICP worked more than the CRT did, but now the ICP never comes on ,  the CRT tries, and sometimes works on a warm day,  only a few times as of late, when she had been sitting in the warm sun. Was in the high 60s a couple of days. I pulled the ICP and found a lot of corrosion issues at solder joints. Spent a lot of time scraping, soft wire brushing, fluxing, and soldering till I think I should have good connections? The worst problems were at the 3 parallel cables, and the LCD panel prongs. A couple of the LCD panel prongs were really bad, so I got excited thinking she might work, but no joy when reinstalling! I should be boning up for my retake on my USPS 955 exam instead of messing with the Reatta, but I am afraid I will forget to get gas, and run out on the way to work. I did a little research and see that the CRT and the ICP both pull lower voltage from the CPS. What does it take to get to it, and does it sound like it could be my problem? I pulled the panel off around the CRT, there is a lot of rust, the windshield used to leak so I am guessing corrosion could be a lot of my problems. The drivers door seal still leaks in-spite of my best efforts to seal it up several years ago. The ICP button lights, and warning bulbs work, but that is all, guessing they are 12 volts and everything else works on 7 volts? I tried to remove the windshield wiper and defroster push button panel and ventilation port but I couldn't even figure out how to disconnect the plugin connector so I could get the panel out of the way! I read that the CPS is to the right of the steering column behind the ICP?

[KDirk]

Sounds like the IPC has a bad high voltage section. The digital displays are VFD,(vacuum fluorescent display) and require a high AC voltage along with a lower differential AC filament voltage in order to light up. This power supply is internal to the cluster, and not really a DIY repair unless you have bench tech grade electronic repair experience. Given the condition you describe the internal circuit boards in, I'd highly recommend a replacement cluster. I'm not sure any of the rebuild shops are still repairing these, seems they only service the 90/91 cluster.

 

The CRT probably needs rebuilding as well based on the symptoms you are describing. Especially if it got wet due to a windshield leak at some point. If you are in a pinch cost wise, there are a couple of working CRTs on eBay right now for around $150. Eddie Voland (see Reatta resources thread at top of forum) rebuilds them, but that runs $250. Other vendors here sell working used and rebuilt CRTs at varying price points. 

 

Based on what you are describing, I don't think it's a CPS failure. The CPS is located up under the dash on the drivers side closer to the center console and is a natural aluminum color encased module about 3x4 inches and about an inch thick. Has a black and silver decal on the front, and is secured with two screws. The black plastic hush panel under the driver side dash needs to be removed the access it. While there are a bunch of wires in its connector,  there are only three circuits: 12vdc, 7vdc and ground, and each is output redundantly on multiple wires. If you measure both voltages with a meter, then the CPS is good.

 

Only other advice I can give is to fill the tank every couple of days as insurance until you get working gauges. Of course,  driving with no Speedo and no visible readout on the CRT has its own risks, but is doable of you are careful. If you are getting average mileage, you'll get about 200-250 miles per tank in mixed highway/city driving. With no odometer though, you're guessing at that too. 

[DAVES89]

I have a CRT that is just starting to squiggle. I can go hours [I drive my Reattas a lot and it will be fine and then gets squiggly for a couple of minutes and then corrects itself. Could last a week could last months. Yours if you want it for $35.00 delivered. That's less then a core charge.

 If interested email me at;

 lemke1044@aol.com

[Jerry Moriah]

Are these AC parts actually sealed inside the glass readout? Or are they on one of the boards? I used to work on sound cancelling prototype technology, good with an iron, but low on knowledge. I used to  make modifications, and solder extremely small surface mount chips with a jewelers eye piece for an engineer buddy of mine. Considering buying non working cluster with blown capacitor from being hooked up wrong? Thinking I may be able to salvage some of my components? Didn't really see any working clusters on Ebay,  one for $119 with warranty for sale, but zoom on photos show bent terminals and rusted screws. And no response from seller.

[harry yarnell]

I assume you mean IPC (instrument panel cluster).

I've got a panel that worked when pulled for $110 post paid.

'89, right?

[Jerry Moriah]

Yes 89

 

[KDirk]

The ac power supply is on the middle circuit board in the cluster  (there are three boards stacked, rearmost is the logic/cpu board, middle is power supply and front has displays). Front board also has some driver circuitry and some serial to parallel shift register IC's to drive the grids and anodes on the VFD"s hidden in the gap beneath the glass display tubes. These get a serial data stream from the logic board and convert that to output to drive the input pins on the display glass. 

 

Anyway, the ac power supply consists of several discrete components, several electrolytic capacitors, some transistors, a voltage regulator, some resistors and a few other odds and ends. It is rebuildable, but some parts (transistors and regulator) are stamped with delco house numbers, not industry standard part numbers. So, unless you can figure out what they are, you're dead in the water. I figured out the part numbers for a 90/91 clusters a while back, but have never taken the time to do so for the 88/89 cluster as I haven't had a need to yet.

 

If pilfering parts from a donor cluster, don't reuse the electrolytic capacitors, order and install new ones as these have about 25 year life span and get iffy beyond thst point as they dry out internally and their value drifts. Some resistors are bad about drifting off value as well.

[harry yarnell]

Since you're having issues with BOTH the IPC and the CRT, the CPS is the place I'd look at first. The CPS provides regulated 5 volts to both the IPC and the CRT.

Just sayin'.

[DAVES89]

Harry in most cases that is the first place to look. However if you go back and read the first post he stated that the IPC went first and the CRT would work intermittently mostly when it was warm and now out full time. They both did not go out at the same time. So I don't think the CPS is at issue here.

 

[Ronnie]

I would recommend that you take Dave up on his $35 offer. Easiest way to troubleshoot is to swap out parts and see what changes. That way you have a core to send to Eddie Voland if repairs are needed.

[Jerry Moriah]

I actually want to start with IPC,  would like to get the one from Harry as quickly as possible. My concern is that the CPS might damage the parts I put in? The voltage at the "filtered/clean" ground are concerning me,  would be pulling CPS but really tired,  rough day at work,  and supposed to get cold and snow tomorrow. May go out and plug CRT back in so my heat works. Probably lost my heat settings? Hopefully it will come on!  I can set it in front of heater for awhile,  if that doesn't make it work then maybe it is the CPS being affected by heat. Does the CPS have capacitors in it?

[KDirk]

Yes, the CPS has a few electrolytic capacitors inside. The climate settings are maintained in the CRTC memory, so should be unaffected by unplugging the CRT unless you also cut power to the controller. 

[Jerry Moriah]

Will the car run/drive with out CPS plugged in? With wipers and lights working?

[Jerry Moriah]

Received the IPC from Harry. While I was in the car with a portable heater keeping it like hell itself in there, trying to get the CRT to come on while car was already fairly hot, but with no success, I plugged in the IPC. It did come on for a few seconds, went out for a while then came on for a few more seconds, then out again. I pulled it apart and it is definitely in far better shape then mine. I can see a few solder joints at the display probes that are not looking good. The center board, the one that I believe is the AC power supply board that Kirk referred, to has groupings of resisters at the top of the board, you can see that these areas of the board have some heat scorching, under R3, R17 and c19 over to R14. In the pics I have uploaded you can easily see the scorching on the yellow plastic mount it is laying on. Resisters do get hot, but I am guessing this is not good? Those big orange caps are glued down pretty good, they would be a fun to replace!

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jerry Moriah (see edit history)

[Jerry Moriah]

Here my old boards are next to the one I bought from Harry, U can see the scorching on both boards, especially where the heat browned the yellow plastic. I think the one from Harry is actually a little worse than mine as far as the plastic scorch marks. It may have had more usable life than mine did causing longer heat exposure? But the board from his actually has some green inbetween the components, my entire board is almost totally brown.