Jack Worstell Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Does anyone have any experience with a "Hill Holder" for a 1937 Buick Special ? Also known as a "No-Roll" Jack Worstell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Fitted to Studebakers as well from 1936. What do you need to know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Worstell Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 I need to know....where to buy them ? And some literature giving info about how they work and how they are installed ? ( I've never had occasion to work with one of these gadgets so I'm starting from ground zero......) Jack Worstell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I don't think there are many available NOS now. Studebaker vendors may have parts. Did Buick install them? For information search the Studebaker forum for both terms. Here is the 1939 Studebaker manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 The ealy teens Buicks have a brake on the transmission input shaft. When shifting if the car is shifted into neutral with further depressing of the clutch, the brake will slow or stop the transmission gears and clutch disk to allow for better shifting with the non syncro gears. When stopped with the clutch depressed and the car is left in gear, fully depressing the clutch brake will act as a hill holder. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raydurr Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Bob that is interesting. Commercial trucks today have clutch brake. On trucks they wont hold the vehicle but they definitely stop the input shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I had the No-Roll on my 48 Special Sedanet. The explanation above from the Studebaker Manual is probably the best you will find. I have some data on this that I will check on and report back. I doubt if you will find any for sale anywhere but maybe one might show up on eBay. I know Buick offered it on some models and mine looked to be factory installed and not aftermarket. They can be difficult to adjust if they are not set correctly. My understanding of the way they operated is as follows: When the car is facing uphill at a red traffic light, the operator would depress the brake and clutch. Then the brake could be released and the car would not roll backwards. When the light changed to green, the clutch could be let out and the brakes would unlock and allow the car to move forward. The No-roll had a linkage arm that connected to the clutch linkage with an adjustment to vary the the length of the arm. If not adjusted properly, the car would roll back and then go forward or the brakes would stay locked longer and interfere with the forward movement of the car. The Manual above provides a complete description of the mechanical operation of the No-Roll valve. I disconnected mine by securing the linkage rod to the firewall and the car functioned as any other standard transmission car as mine was not adjusted properly. I also was concerned that the rubber seal inside was likely deteriorated after so many years and I did not know where to get a replacement. If I still had that car I would probably spend some time trying to correct the adjustment of the linkage rod. Joe, BCA 33493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil morse Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 I know that the "hill holder" was an option on Studebakers, as others have said. But I took a test drive in a '41 Cadillac years ago that was equipped with the same device, so apparently it was something that either GM offered or that was available as an after-market accessory. Very practical in a town like San Francisco! I wish I had one on my Super. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 There is a wikipedia entry for "Hill Holder". It was developed by Wagner Electric and manufactured by Bendix Brake Company in South Bend, Indiana (which is where Studebaker was based). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdarrunt Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Do you really NEED an anti roll back device or just want something different? If you need one then forget about the ancient technology and install a "Line Lock" used by drag racers. Stop and hold brake pedal down, flip switch to lock brakes, then as you release clutch flip switch to release brakes and your on your way with no roll back. Requires 12v system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenz38 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) Yes..... a Drag Race-Line lock...,that Thought came over me too ,while reading this Threat..??? Edited March 16, 2018 by jenz38 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Use the parking brake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuicksBuicks Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Isn't the primary purpose of the dash throttle for hill stops? I personally prefer using the hand brake on hills but the throttle works nicely too with a little practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ply33 Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 1 hour ago, BuicksBuicks said: Isn't the primary purpose of the dash throttle for hill stops? I personally prefer using the hand brake on hills but the throttle works nicely too with a little practice. About the hand throttle on the dash, my copy of Man and the Motor Car, a 1940 vintage high school driver training book says on page 79: . . .Its chief purpose is to provide a means of regulating the gasoline flow to the engine at times when the right foot, which normally operates the foot accelerator, is otherwise engaged. The sometimes happens when starting on hills, the right foot being employed with the brake. That said, it is my impression that the hand throttle disappeared about the same time as the crank hole cover disappeared and suspect it might have had an official use when using the hand crank to start the engine. I guess your right foot would be “otherwise engaged” doing that too, supporting you as you stood in front of the car trying to start the beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Worstell Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanks for the comments. Now I know how a Hill Holder works ( kind of slick ).... the Studebaker article is excellent. I didn't realize the aspect about the Hill Holder clutch linkage adjustment being touchy......but after thinking about this I can see how this might be a negative for this device. Yes I know that the parking brake or the hand throttle might be used in lieu of a Hill Holder and in the past I have used the parking brake many times for this this purpose ( but I've never used a hand throttle for this purpose ) However....the Hill Holder is the better option in that the Hill Holder requires much less coordination and doesn't require the driver to take any extra steps.........the driver uses the foot brake and the clutch in virtually the same manner as if a Hill Holder wasn't present The "Line Lock" device seems like a good alternative. Requires an extra step on the part of the driver and maybe a tad more coordination........But my guess is that the Line-Lock beats out the park brake and the hand throttle on these two points. The Line-Lock would have one advantage over the Hill Holder......no touchy adjustment to fight. If anyone wonders about my considerable interest in the Hill Holder....try driving a 1937 Special with no PS or PB...........in the hills of WVA...........A fellow needs all the help he can get.... Jack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 The hand throttle on Buicks comes in handy when your car is facing up hill and you need to start it. In those instances, keep your right foot on the brake and your left foot on the clutch, or have the car out of gear, and then pull out the hand throttle until it engages the starter, like when you step on the accelerator pedal to start the car. Then drive the car in the normal manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) Bob, that is the first time I have ever heard anything like that in regards to the clutch brake - and I have been messing around with my 1916 Buick for going on 55 years. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Edited March 17, 2018 by Terry Wiegand GRAMMAR EDIT (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H.Boland Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den41Buick Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 I think Anderson Pearson put one on his 41 Roadmaster.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Terry, I don't have a hill holder on my 39 Roadmaster, but one can utilize the hand throttle with the method that I indicated above. In fact I was driving the car this afternoon and stopped by some friends who live on a hill street. When I left, I flipped on the column switch and followed the sequence noted above and I was on my way. Of course, with this car and my 49 Super, which doesn't have a hand throttle, you can always start the car from the engine compartment by pulling back on the throttle linkage. That comes in handy when you are by yourself and are having choke problems and need to fiddle with the carb when you're attempting to start the car. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LAS VEGAS DAVE Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Another option is to slowly roll into the car behind you completely ignoring his horn while coming to a stop against his bumper. When th light changes just pull away while waving THANKS to the driver behind you. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 It is always a pain when driving a car with a stick when other drivers park on your rear bumper at a light at an intersection on a hill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 It is part of our driver's license test to do a hill start using the hand brake. It only takes a little coordination. I did my test in Hastings, which is flat. The only hill was a railway crossing so that is where I did it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 2018-03-18 at 7:42 PM, LAS VEGAS DAVE said: Another option is to slowly roll into the car behind you completely ignoring his horn while coming to a stop against his bumper. When th light changes just pull away while waving THANKS to the driver behind you. I nearly had that issue in the photo lane at the 2007 National Meet in Bellevue, WA. It was set up at the top of a ramp and I had the 1941 Special. The car in line got too close for comfort and I stalled a few times tying to get going without rolling into him. The parking brake never occurred to me. Of course, while learning how to drive manual transmissions as a youngster in fairly flat Saskatchewan, I primarily grew up with automatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 In this country, I believe if you pass your license test in an automatic, you new license is endorsed that you are qualified for automatics only. You need another test for a manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I checked my files and the description above from Studebaker is the same as I have. I wonder where one could get any parts for one of these? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 Was there not also an accessory "Hill Holder" or "Drop Sprag" that mounted under the floorboards in the Brass Era? This dropped down when you were stopped on a hill to prevent drifting backward. I read about one on a 1909 Overland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, MochetVelo said: Was there not also an accessory "Hill Holder" or "Drop Sprag" that mounted under the floorboards in the Brass Era? This dropped down when you were stopped on a hill to prevent drifting backward. I read about one on a 1909 Overland. Might have been, but not to my knowledge on Buicks. I think Buick had hill holder in the 30's. People of that era would know more. Edited April 19, 2018 by Larry Schramm (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Larry Schramm said: I think Buick had hill holder in the 30's. People of that era would know more. Surely it would be in the shop manual if they did, as it was for Studebaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MochetVelo Posted April 19, 2018 Share Posted April 19, 2018 (edited) I found the device thanks to the Model T Forum. It was sold as "Perfect Drop Brakes." Here is a link to information on E.S. Youse, the manufacturer. Edited April 19, 2018 by MochetVelo (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 (edited) MoToR's Manual 1947 shows a Hill Holder (called "NoRoL" by its manufacturer) in Buicks for 1939-46. It doesn't say which models. MoToR's Manual 1952 doesn't mention the NoRol in Buicks at all. It has a short section in the Brakes chapter but no applications are given. Edited April 20, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thriller Posted April 20, 2018 Share Posted April 20, 2018 14 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: MoToR's Manual 1947 shows a Hill Holder (called "NoRoL" by its manufacturer) in Buicks for 1939-46. It doesn't say which models. MoToR's Manual 1952 doesn't mention the NoRol in Buicks at all. It has a short section in the Brakes chapter but no applications are given. That makes sense. I'm pretty sure it was an option in 1941. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 I have a No-roll for my 38 just haven't installed it. John Kilbane seems to be good at finding them and provides paperwork and stuff like he does with all the part she sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted April 21, 2018 Share Posted April 21, 2018 Was it expensive? My 39 Roadmaster is a heavy car. A NoRol might be nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 John Kilbane is always very fair on his pricing. I don't recall exactly what I paid as it was a few years ago but I'd guess around $50 bucks +/- and I bought it either at Hershey or the BCA National so no shipping, but it's kinda heavy. If you are a BCA member you can look him up in the roster he is in OH. I don't like putting other people info folks info out here myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuickBob49 Posted April 22, 2018 Share Posted April 22, 2018 I'll look him up in the BCA directory. I've been a BCA member since 1978! Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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