philipj

Fuel Pump 1938 Century...

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Running issues are very unlikely to be anything to do with the charging system.

The generator is grounded via its frame.

It is possible for the regul;ator ground to have problems is there is rust between any of its grounding surfaces (also via its frame). I had that probl;em with my Roadmaster.

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Hello Don,

 

It so happens that I just found the regulator ground wire loose on the regulator, and an additional ground wire from the starting system without a connector (just twisted on the bolt! I also added an additional star washer between the regulator and the body, but I may have to scratch some of the paint off for a good ground...

 

It runs much much better... Last night it was bucking like a wild bronco, to the point of my wife saying, whatever you did in there, did not fix the problem, it is worse than before!... @%$!! I bit my tongue and told her I would check it today...;)

 

After all this and another drive, I noticed that it hesitates slightly AFTER hard acceleration in second gear... In other words, about 20 MPH I will stomp on the gas pedal hard, then let go,  followed by re-acceleration... It still hesitates a little bit! 

 

The distributor shaft is tight all around, and I just checked the timing one more time! Maybe the 12th time... I have lost track now. I have made a short video but it was rejected here because of its size, and have no idea how to compress... If anyone is interested in viewing I will gladly send along for your input...

Edited by philipj (see edit history)

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4 hours ago, philipj said:

So, would you confirm that the pump pictured above is the correct one? The 530 model...

YES! The 530 is correct. And if that is one, that is correct.

 

As for cutting out, any wires in the distributor that have poor or no insulation that can touch the distributor body from time to time?

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I just replaced everything in the distributor when I had it out, down to the plate,  2 wires, plus points, condenser, cap, rotor (all NOS) except for a new wire set from Bob's Automobilia... My next thing (though unrelated) is to buy an AC 530 fuel pump... I have left a message with Bob and another with an Ebay vendor advertising an AC 529 pump...

 

Does anyone know the difference between the 530 and 519 fuel pumps? Sure looks like the one used on BuickBob49's Roadmaster, though mounted upside down... I have not been able to find what he has...

 

AC #519 Fuel Pump 41-51.jpg

AC #519 Fuel Pump 41-51.jpgx.jpg

AC #519 Fuel Pump 41-51.jpgx.jpgx.jpg

Edited by philipj (see edit history)

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I just ordered a type 530 from Kanter's Auto, exactly as the one in post# 47... I just will have to redo all my fuel and vacuum lines again, and hope that my oil issues will be over...

Edited by philipj (see edit history)

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Are the "new" ignition wires NOS?

 

Remember the "O" stands for old. And with anything that is rubber, insulation or elastomer, old = junk.

 

If the wires are NOS, you might be getting crossfire where the spark jumps from wire to wire due to bad insulation.

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The wires are brand new, so I hope there are no issues there... And I just received the new #530 fuel pump from Kanter's which I will install tomorrow... I really have to cross my fingers and hope that with this, plus re-routing the fuel line from the carburetor close to factory specs, the car will run as it should...

 

One important detail that I just noticed is the fact that the inlet line from the tank is NOT on the left side of the pump (as expected) but the right side which will make it interesting to run the new lines... Curious as to how the original 47 lines were done... Seems like a lot of extra bends by having the fuel inlet on the right side instead of the left...

 

Could I also safely assume that the vacuum/suction side to the wiper motor is on the left of the pump? Almost impossible to move the lever to determine which is the one...

 

IMG_7904.JPG

IMG_7903.JPG

IMG_7906.JPG

Edited by philipj (see edit history)

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If it helps. you could rotate the fuel pump inlet on the pump to suit. Just undo the screws, rotate and refit.

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Note:

All of your pictures show the pump upside down.  don't forget that the fuel pump is on the bottom and the vacuum pump is on top.  

The fuel outlet is next to the pressure "dome" and will need a right angle fitting in it.  It looks indexed correctly in you photos.  Can be a bit of a pain to start the line to the carb into it, but patience is a virtue :) 

 

Bill

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Hello Critterpainter,

 

You can't imagine how much I appreciate your message which I wished I had gotten earlier since I had everything installed upside down and wondered why I wasn't getting any fuel!!... You see, I am unfamiliar with this model pump and just by what I am used to for the last 30 years (other wartime vehicles and previous AB Style pump) you would look at the flange and dome and install the way I did...

 

Still reeling and feeling like a total idiot since I redid all the lines for this configuration... It means that I almost have to start from scratch... Yet, I still have a few things I would like to confirm before I make myself crazy again trying to source, bend and flare all the necessary lines, etc... Not to mention the time spent.

 

1- Location of fuel inlet from the tank

2- Location of the suction side for windshield wiper

3- Verify that arm# 1523993 with the current pump is for a Buick 8, since the only way to insert it would be towards the bottom, as opposed to the topside approach with the AB style pump for a 1947 block....

 

Again, thank you for the help with this... Now I have to eat crow and tell the supplier that I don't have to return the pump after all, unless the arm in it will not work for a Buick...

 

IMG_4505.JPG

IMG_4504.JPG

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I feel your pain on this, very frustrating.  I hope you get it all straightened out real soon.

In regard to Teflon tape on gas line fittings I agree with the earlier posts to avoid using it.  As stated in one earlier post,  it is a lubricant and if it is used in attaching a male brass fitting to the pump body it will allow the brass fitting to go further into the threaded hole in the pump body and may crack the pump body at that point.  Don't ask me how I know this may happen.

Joe, BCA 33493

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No matter how hard I try as a dry fit, I cannot insert the pump the right way with the arm from the bottom... Even spinning the motor a few times did not help... I wonder if indeed that is the right arm for this application... I never imagined this could be so difficult!

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What does the flange on the engine look like?

 

Your post above mentions upside down. You may be miles ahead of me already, and probably are, but here goes anyway.

 

The LAST picture in post 30 shows how both of those fuel pumps mount on an engine right side up, I think. In fact I am fairly sure. Notice the flanges are opposite!

 

The fuel is obviously on top on the one on the left, but due to the little anti-hammer chamber on the bottom, I think the one on the right has the fuel on the bottom.

 

It sounds like you have already tried mounting the pump all possible ways. I am really curious about that flange.

 

Are you absolutely sure about the year of the engine? I seem to remember you getting it identified by the numbers in some other thread, but I am not sure.

 

This must be really frustrating. Keep it up. You are getting close.

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I am wondering if you could post some photos of your engine? Earlier, in another discussion, your engine was identified as a 1948 Series 70 engine by number. I don't recall who identified it by the number, but my research shows that identification correct according to the number.

"  On 2/21/2018 at 7:24 PM, philipj said:

Hello there again,

 

Would anyone have a list of the Buick Century's serial number range for the year 1938? I am dealing with 8 digits starting with 50XXXX97.

Furthermore, would additional stamping be located on the the driver's side front section? Thank you ..

 

  That is a 1948 series 70  [320 ] engine number."

 

If the engine ran with your earlier fuel pump, it had to be somehow be running the fuel pump with a totally different style arm from that found on a 1948 engine. I don't think that a 1948 engine could have possibly run with the earlier fuel pump arm configuration. I am not 100% convinced which year engine your car actually has in it. It is impossible to know which fuel pump you need without knowing with certainty which engine you actually have. 

 

Photos of both sides of the engine would be helpful, front, middle, rear, one showing the fuel pump mounting flange, A clear photo of the engine serial number stamping more photos can't hurt...

Please help us help you. 

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IF the engine in your car is a 1941 and newer 320 engine the fuel pump in the bottom picture on the right in the last post you made is the correct pump in the correct orientation.

 

On the 1941-52 Buick engines, the simple minded method I use to see whether the fuel pump is for a large series or a small series is to try to put my thumb between the arm and the body of the pump.   If your thumb fits, its a large series arm.  if there is no way your thumb fits, its a small series engine pump.     Another check is that the contact surface on the large series is about 90 degrees to the mounting flange.    on the small series, the rub surface tips down at a slight angle.

 

To mount the pump, I don't hold the pump level with the holes, I slope the back hole downhill so the bolt hole on the pump is below the threads on the block.  I then start he front bolt and rotate the pump and catch the rear hole.   The springs on a fresh rebuilt pump can be quite stiff.

 

Bill

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I will follow up tomorrow with the rest, but for now, I can state that the engine serial number is 13330366 which is either a 47 or 48 series 70 as I was told... My first question is, the AB pump had the arm on top and the 530 pump on the bottom... We have established that the 530 pump is correct for a 47 or 48 year... Imagine that the next thing to verify is the arm#. This one is marked 1523993... Thank you all for the help.

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I don't think that is the correct engine serial number. It is not what you posted previously as the engine number. If you were to be misreading a poorly stamped first digit of a 6 as a 1 and that is your engine number, it looks like your 1938 Buick might have a 1938 engine. The photos might help confirm the correct engine year. 

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What about if you poke your finger in the fuel pump mounting hole and find the cam? If it is above the mount, the 530 in post 60 would be like your second picture when mounted. If below, .... you get the idea. So that arm either goes on top of the cam or the bottom of it. On the other pump, the arm is obviously on the side of the cam.

 

Take a piece of printer paper and do a pressing on the mounting flange on the engine and see which pump it fits - they look slightly different.

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Hello Matt,

My apologies, I was pretty worn out last night and I gave you the frame s/n instead... The engine serial # is 50650397.  As for trying to put my finger on the cam, it cannot be reached by hand, it seems higher than the mounting opening... I would imagine with the pump right side up, the arm would have to come in from the bottom, but as I stated before I cannot get it to line up with the mounting holes. I will have to try again to install the pump per Bill's instructions... Regarding the possibility of being a pump for the smaller series engines, the opening in the pump where the arm fits into is 15/16... By contrast, the AB pump's opening is 11/16...

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Could you post some photos of the engine? You seem to be having a lot of trouble identifying the year of the engine and photos would help identify it for sure. Being sure about the engine year will make it a lot easier for you to know what you need anytime you need parts in the future.

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It is not a 1938 320 Engine. The location of the serial number, the extra engine mount location, and the fuel pump mounting shape eliminates that as a possibility. 

 

I am not an expert but from the engine number and the information available online, as previously pointed out, it appears to be a 1948 320 engine from a 70 series car. I don't have a parts book that late, so someone else will have to confirm the correct parts for that engine. It would seem that any fuel pump for a 1948 320 engine should fit. I can't imagine that anyone would have done anything internally to make it use any other fuel pump, but I guess anything is possible since I have no idea of its history.

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According to the reference section on Team Buick, the block is indeed a 1948 Series 70.  1948 numbers began with 4,999 881. 1949 began 5,220, 972.  The 7 indicates 70 series, Roadmaster. Your valve cover appears to be from a '37, as I believe '38 or '39 began with using only two bolts.. 

 

  Ben

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Hello Bruce and Mathew,

Thank you for confirming the engine date, it will be very helpful in the future... According to all the information here, the correct fuel pump for a 1948 Buick Roadmaster as mentioned by Bloo is p/n 1537338 Type 530, Series AJ, which is what I have...

What puzzles me regarding fitment is the following: Are there any pivot arm variants or could something be different in my engine, since it was able to run with an AB type pump with the pivot arm coming from the top and not the bottom?

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