60FlatTop Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 An English teacher in my High School stood in front of his class and tore up a school journal that was published with an article I wrote. It wasn't the grammar. Yesterday I told my Wife I might run for election as a village judge on an extortion and fund raising platform. Some things never change. If I win, to quote William F. Buckley, "The first thing I will do is demand a recount". Back to the topic of major project cars and basket cases, I have bought a lot of cars and can't really remember what I would call a bad experience. When one didn't meet my needs anymore or didn't meet my expectations I would clean it all up, much better than I see cars presented online in most instances, and send it down the road, usually with a few extra dollars for the next leap of faith. I generally think in equations. So when buying sight unseen became more of a reality around 2000, for me, I sat down and figured I could work with a $3500 annual exposure to risk. If I laid out $10,000 for that P-A could I recover $6500 at the end of a year. Probably more from sweat equity in cleaning and familiarization. I have consciously taken that risk a few times this century and I am happy with the results. I think I am on the up side of the money and enjoyed a few cars that I never finished, but enjoyed owning. My work is very detail oriented. My hobby is not. I like it like that. Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 I am a member on quite a few car forums and I have found that there is a strange phenomena at all of them, vintage cars, muscle cars, European cars, 4X4 trucks, etc.. Whenever a "found car" is posted, a good potion of the members (of all boards) beat the vehicle to death, no matter what the price is. The statements run true for all makes/models. "It is a less desirable model" "The cost to restore is just not worth it" "It should just be parted out" "Worthless without A,B,C options" Etc., etc., etc..... Point in case; just a few weeks ago a member on one of my Corvette sites posted two very complete barn find Corvettes. Both indoors for years, both in need of restorative work. Both totally worth bringing back in my opinion. Well, the wolves tore, not only the cars to shreds, but the poster for even considering buying one of these worthless piles of fiberglass and metal to restore. Values in the range of $2,500 were offered. Excuses ran that the cars were very "run of the mill Corvettes, not huge horsepower or rare models" (maybe they were all harboring secret wishes to own either of the Corvettes at a steal of a price). I disagreed and posted so. I felt any price south of $10K would be fair for either car. I also had to remind them that by far, the vast majority of cars owned by forum members were also "run of the mill Corvettes with lower or average horsepower, not particularly rare, and without a myriad of options". These are classic Corvettes and they aren't making any more of them. Their current market values certainly make them worth restoring. Maybe not with the idea of restoring and selling for an immediate profit, but just the same. Take a look at the 1963-67 Corvettes; $25K for an entry level basket case today. As it turned out the poster could get no real action on the forum so the cars went to eBay, yes, the largest, fairest sales platform on the globe. Each car sold in its "found" condition for over $9,000. Proving all those experts dead wrong. Now, while my knowledge of Pierce Arrows is limited, I do know that they aren't building any more of them either. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 It does seem a shame to scrap a car like that. But, it is missing a lot of parts and the body appears to be shook to death (I note that it is held together with duct tape for the photos). Maybe an enthusiast could recondition the chassis and make it road worthy then put on a new body. Not a good candidate for a speedster or roadster, how about one of those woody wagon kits if they still make them? I could just see a long time Pierce owner in the 20s having one built for use on his horse farm or estate. I saw one a few years ago on a similar twenties Packard chassis and it looked good. Certainly better than seeing the car junked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave39MD Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 As a total Pierce novice I am wondering what are the key parts missing that are keeping this from being restored. To my untrained eye it looks somewhat complete. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 15 hours ago, GregLaR said: I have found that there is a strange phenomena at all of them It is not just cars. I have been using computers since 1974 and a few years ago I used to have a standing lunch meeting with a Linux, Unix, Apple, or whatever non-Microsoft diehard. He taught me that this "strange phenomena" was a form of arrogance. It became more obvious until the meetings stopped. Bernie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Dave39MD said: As a total Pierce novice I am wondering what are the key parts missing that are keeping this from being restored. To my untrained eye it looks somewhat complete. Dave Front bumper, rad cap, 2 spare wheels, hubcaps, steering wheel, door handles, body wood rotten, body cut open at the back to make a delivery van, upholstery and interior completely shot, what else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: Front bumper, rad cap, 2 spare wheels, hubcaps, steering wheel, door handles, body wood rotten, body cut open at the back to make a delivery van, upholstery and interior completely shot, what else Bumper. wheels, and door handles & latches are available used from PAS members. I have an extra ready-to-install steering wheel available for $300. The radiator cap is reproduced in Delrin from a gent in NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 I should think body wood and upholstery would be the most difficult and expensive to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said: should think body wood and upholstery would be the most difficult and expensive to replace. Body wood and aluminum rear panel will be difficult, requiring much money or considerable skills and time; these are the potential show stoppers. *IF* the seat frames and springs are there, upholstery won't be any more difficult than many other interior jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Almost 50 responses, I am beginning to like the car even more. Think about buying that car and having a P_A expert point our that your archer is in the wrong position. You could stand up straight and announce "WELL LOOK WHAT ELSE YOU MISSED!" I always like leaving one glaring error they can find so we can get past that part quickly. Back when my Wife and I were dating she had a 1966 Falcon V8 wagon. One day, while she was working I painted it red with a brush. When I was done I took the brush and put a big dab in the corner of the yailgate window. She saw that and asked what happened there. I replied "Well I didn't want it to be prefect." My expectations are generally met. Bernie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Harmatuk Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Its all about the front fenders. Bill H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 One thing about all of the comments on this car, if you bought it you would have a ready made "punch list" of to do's to get it running. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) I'm assuming that mechanically it would be possible to put the chassis back in commission without a complete engine rebuild or other major expense which is a big assumption. If I wanted a car like that, and if I could buy it for a price close to its salvage value I would have a go at getting the engine running, fixing the brakes steering etc and if that was successful invest in wheels and tires. At that point would have a running chassis and if it was good enough go to work on a woody station wagon body. I'm sure I would end up with more in it than it is worth but the cost would be spread over several years so, maybe it would be the only way I could afford a Pierce Arrow. If it turned out to be hopeless with a completely wrecked engine or something, then it would be time to part it out and recoup your investment. Edited March 10, 2018 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Bill H is right--it's all about the front fenders with fenderwells. I've never seen another Series 80 with sidemounts, although they are a listed option in the salesmen's data book. BTW, the frozen steering box is most likely due to the original *pot metal* large multiple-diameter bushing inside, which is now reproduced in brass. Most S80-81 steering ills come from people applying a grease gun to the zerk where a fill plug should be, blowing out the seals, among other things. These cars came with a pistol-grip, push-operated "grease compressor" which contained 600W gear oil, the lube specified for all fittings. One push provided one small squirt of 600W. I remove the fitting entirely to check and/or top off the steering box gear oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 I brought this home about 2 years ago, not knowing what I was going to do with it. It was a left over parts car from a convertible restoration. It could have gone many ways for me. And there is no rule that anything has to be done. It could still be sitting there just like the picture. I ended up sending parts all over the world. The fenders went out to the curb and some bottom feeders picked them up in minutes. I guess you could say I literally threw the body away. It fell off the forks of the loader from about 10'. That was my disposal. Then another guy came along and bought that from the yard I left it in. Buying it gave me a new interest in Lincoln cars, a positive experience all the way around. And one I am glad I didn't miss out on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Regarding commentary on "for sale" threads: 1. I don't have the access to the site logs, but by observation forum traffic is down unless you are a Buick guy. 2. Further empirical data is the number of my friends that formerly posted here but now are spending their time on *shudder* Facebook. 3. Anything that causes interest or conversation on the forum is positive for all members. 4. 95% of the feedback I have seen on "for sale" thread is spot on, and the seller should be paying us for it. Listening would generally save the sellers a lot of time and heartache. 5. Finally, the subject car of this thread is not worth 10k and I doubt it is worth 1k. The sooner the seller realizes that, the quicker he will be able to sell it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave39MD Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Thanks for the responses. The new rear door reminds me of a guy who bought a Chevy with that treatment from a guy who sold carpet and used it to load and unload carpet rolls. He saved the cutout which was put back together by the new owner. Probably not as easy with the aluminum. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty_OToole Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 Aluminum can be welded. It is replacing the body frame I would worry about. Notice how the car is held together with duct tape. This suggests the whole structure is rotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleach Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esKL44Lo2Xc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sligermachine Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 On 3/7/2018 at 12:04 PM, auburnseeker said: good thing that the patina is welcome has taken hold. It's probably saved a lot of cars from being torn apart Wile I was a kid I watched my grandpas junk yard get crushed in a car crusher the city just moved in and said you cant have that many cars . He saved a row of Studebaker's now 3 is left. I knew I had my 1929 Doge was drive able by that time I was 13 I was the youngest around to have a nice car in my family . Yes the patina is welcome save some old history .--kyle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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