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Luv2, I continue to follow your most interesting thread! Do have a question, since I am not familiar with MG's,.........the broken clevis mount on the tranny: what is this clevis that mounts here actually for?

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I can certainly identify with being slow. I've started the reassembly of my project and I try to be so careful to avoid putting something together in the wrong order and have to undo it to put another item in place. Well, it happens but it sure goes together more quickly the second time with the added experience!

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8 hours ago, r1lark said:

Luv2, I continue to follow your most interesting thread! Do have a question, since I am not familiar with MG's,.........the broken clevis mount on the tranny: what is this clevis that mounts here actually for?

 

Thanks r1lark!  

 

The engine is attached to the frame in two spots, the front and by the back of the gearbox.   The weight of the engine/gearbox is resting on rubber blocks (both front and rear).  Any side to side movement is resisted by the two bolts in the front engine mount and a stabilizer arrangement just above that.  Vertical movement is also resisted by those two bolts in the front.  The gearbox mount (where the clevis attaches) is a little different.  It needs to allow a little more movement... certainly a little more rotational movement.   What it doesn't want to do is let the gearbox lift up.  This is where the clevis comes in.  It will allow the gearbox to rotate but not move up.  It was common for these mounts to break because the desire to lift in the lower gears is prevalent.  The fix that is recommend (with the bolt) should still allow the rotational movement but hopefully resist the vertical movement.  I'm hoping the bolt (grade 5 not grade 8 ) will also have a little give... at least more than the casting did.  Knowing my luck it'll probably break on the first drive :)

 

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More stuff bolted on.  Water pump, timing gears, chain, tensioner, etc.  Just about ready to put the sump on along with generator and starter.  I'll rebuild the carbs next.  Still need to assemble the gearbox and add that along with bell housing, pressure plate and clutch to the engine.  Can't put the engine in the car without all of that as the back "mount" is on the gearbox!   As such, the likely hood of it running this weekend is pretty much nil... along with the fact that my "core plug set" that I ordered doesn't come with the one for the camshaft.  Like... why not???   I've ordered those items and some other things that I need but those will not be here before next week.  However... the piles of parts is rapidly dwindling and thus easier to find things.  I took some time to separate out all the parts that were not going to be used as they were extras, original but too worn out or for a different car/engine.   I would have done this earlier but, quite frankly, I really didn't know what was what. :)

 

 

IMG_4070.jpg

IMG_4071.jpg

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)
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Moving along... got the sump installed and other bits finished on the engine.  We're now waiting on the core plug for the camshaft, rubber bushing for the stabilizer bar and various copper washers.  Those should be here Monday and I'll be able to button the engine up.

IMG_4075.thumb.jpg.9bf24c6b5b6da68530ad9070c1d28aa3.jpgIMG_4076.thumb.jpg.5dfa8252cd8c315e62fac1001004f76e.jpg

 

I have two sets of the SU H2 carbs (the other set is from the parts car) and I'm currently evaluating which one is the least bad.  My mountain of parts came with two carb rebuild kits but unfortunately they're probably 40 years old and some of the cork pieces are unusable.. as such... another order placed, another wait for parts.

 

 

IMG_4080.thumb.jpg.69e7b28af20a52a35b8e2d66bc09ff88.jpg

 

Started putting the gearbox together.  The gear box for the TD has some extra fun for assembly.  It uses the old style loose needle roller bearings.  The layshaft (which runs along the bottom of the gearbox) has a set at each end.  To get them in you have to have the shaft in place.  But... the layshaft can't be in place before assembly because it gets in the way of the first motion shaft.  The first motion shaft has to connect to the rest of the gears with, you guessed, more needle roller bearings.   You stick those in place with assembly lube and the hope for the best as you join the shafts together.  To make room for those the layshaft has to lay at the bottom of the gearbox and to do so you have to make a dummy shaft.  This way you can install the bearings and all the gears on the dummy shaft (which is the exact length of the inside of the gearbox) and lay this on the bottom.  Once the first motion shaft and main gears are joined you lift the layshaft up into position and slide the real shaft in and push the dummy shaft out.  It sounds impossible but it is actually pretty easy to do.  I should be able to finish up the gearbox tomorrow but, of course, I forgot to order a part or two so I'll be waiting on those. 

 

IMG_4095.thumb.jpg.3385091a77d7922d42259e8ad5aaa77e.jpgIMG_4097.thumb.jpg.0e23b65768473355861becd17550d1aa.jpg

 

Edited by Luv2Wrench
typo in carb type (see edit history)
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The carbs in the foreground are H2 arent they? HS series have the float  bowl connected to jet assembly by a neoprene tube, and are less prone to leak than H types. Bowl cap is attached by 3 screws also. 

jp 26 Rover 9

 

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3 hours ago, jp928 said:

The carbs in the foreground are H2 arent they? HS series have the float  bowl connected to jet assembly by a neoprene tube, and are less prone to leak than H types. Bowl cap is attached by 3 screws also. 

jp 26 Rover 9

 

Yep, that's a typo.  Thanks for pointing that out!

 

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Luv2Wrench, it's looking good. Standard practice was to purchase a new lay-shaft and bearings, then cut down the old lay shaft, if you didn't have a shortened one handy. Getting the shim washers in place is the most difficult part, especially if you cut the shaft a few thou short. And holding your breath when sliding the third motion shaft spigot into the needle rollers. There is room for drama in that process. I'm sure you'll manage it with your usual aplomb.

I remember trying to cut one of those shafts with a hack-saw. Wrong! 

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Good progress Luv2!

 

Question, on the right side of the engine block, down low and at the front, is that a hexagonal core plug?

 

Been there done that with the dummy shaft for the tranny cluster. All the manual transmissions in my Studebakers (Warner T-96, T-86, T-90 3 speeds, even the Borg Warner T-10 4 speed) require that. I have some dowels that have been cut to length, luckily Warner sized their shafts in sizes that dowels are available in!

 

Keep up the good work. Good to see someone who makes fast and continuous progress, it gives me inspiration.

 

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Thanks guys!  I was sorting dreading the whole dummy shaft procedure but it turned out to be really easy.  The original layshaft and bearings were fine so I turned a 3/4" shaft down for the dummy shaft and managed to get it the right length.  The assembly lube is very tacky and it did a great job of holding everything in place.  I don't think it took 15-30 minutes once I got started.  The layshaft is chamfered on the end so that helps a lot and the holes in the casting are shallow enough that you can see in there and judge how close it is.  The only tricky part ended up being getting the special washers (bent top to funnel oil onto the shaft) to slide down into there slots and then slide back up in the slot.  Fortunately the hole in the casting is shallow enough that you can stick screwdriver in there and rotate the washer a bit such that it slides into place.  

 

r1lark, the hexagon shaped object on the right side of the block is the engine ID tag.   Here's a shot I have of it from when I originally went to look at the car.

 

IMG_2882.thumb.jpg.d8d80356e33144f58d6722f2e5df895e.jpg

 

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

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The parts I was expecting Monday came today!!  I tackled the biggest issue first which meant taking the clutch and brake pedal out, inserting them into the "fume excluder" and putting them back in along with the spring for the brake pedal.  Only took 3 hours during which time I seriously considered the task impossible and contemplated a change of hobbies. ;)   

 

I continued putting the gearbox together and noticed that the first/second gear selector shaft was pretty worn near the detents.  It was probably OK but I'm not really shooting for "probably OK" for this restoration.  Before placing another order and waiting another 5 days, I checked the parts car gearbox and was very pleased to see the shaft looked great.  I decided it was a good time to go through the rest of the gearbox from the parts car and get an idea of what it would need to be refurbished.  I plan on refurbishing both the engine and gearbox from the parts car after I'm done with the main restoration and put those up for sale.   Anyway.. got the shaft switched and everything buttoned up.  Decided to run through the gears before adding the safety wire, gaskets and closing up the box.  Noticed that the gear cluster had some pretty serious end float and noticed that I forgotten the last washer before the main bearing.  Oops... glad I checked though wish I just hadn't forgotten it.   Anyway... checked the amount of end float I had and compared that to the washer and yeah, going to need a thicker washer.   I'll locate that, take everything back apart, add the new washer and put it back together.  Hopefully it goes as smoothly as it did the first time.

 

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50 minutes ago, Luv2Wrench said:

The parts I was expecting Monday came today!!  I tackled the biggest issue first which meant taking the clutch and brake pedal out, inserting them into the "fume excluder" and putting them back in along with the spring for the brake pedal.  Only took 3 hours during which time I seriously considered the task impossible and contemplated a change of hobbies. ;)   

 

I continued putting the gearbox together and noticed that the first/second gear selector shaft was pretty worn near the detents.  It was probably OK but I'm not really shooting for "probably OK" for this restoration.  Before placing another order and waiting another 5 days, I checked the parts car gearbox and was very pleased to see the shaft looked great.  I decided it was a good time to go through the rest of the gearbox from the parts car and get an idea of what it would need to be refurbished.  I plan on refurbishing both the engine and gearbox from the parts car after I'm done with the main restoration and put those up for sale.   Anyway.. got the shaft switched and everything buttoned up.  Decided to run through the gears before adding the safety wire, gaskets and closing up the box.  Noticed that the gear cluster had some pretty serious end float and noticed that I forgotten the last washer before the main bearing.  Oops... glad I checked though wish I just hadn't forgotten it.   Anyway... checked the amount of end float I had and compared that to the washer and yeah, going to need a thicker washer.   I'll locate that, take everything back apart, add the new washer and put it back together.  Hopefully it goes as smoothly as it did the first time.

 

We missed a thrust washer in an old Jeep transmission once and blew the synchros out three times before we realized what was missing.

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Measured the end float with a dial indicator and found a smidgen over 70 thou.   I went to the only local hardware store that actually has hardware and, much to my surprise, they had a 14 gauge bushing with the correct ID.  Hoping to get lucky again, I ran the dummy shaft in, heard the satisfying drop of the layshaft, tapped out the first motion bearing, then the main bearing and pulled the two pieces out.   Added the bushing and reassembled.  Less than 30 minutes start to finish.  That gave me a good feeling about getting the rest of the gearbox assembled.  Unfortunately that was the last of the things that went right.  It took another 3 hours get to get the tail shaft casting in place and the selector rods installed.  Those three hours would have been comical to someone watching but I didn't have the most fun.  At one point I was close to having everything together only to discover the woodruff key for the speedo gear amongst some other parts.  How it got out from between the shaft and gear and onto the far side of the workbench is a mystery.  I was having a devil of a time doing things in the correct order so I must have taken the speedo gear off at some point and forgotten about the woodruff key.   At another point I finally got the tail shaft casting in place and was trying to tighten the nuts inside when I realized it was impossible with the selector rods installed.  While removing the selector rods I managed to drop a piece down in the bottom.  While dumping that out I managed to lose one of the ball bearings.  After checking the floor a dozen times I found it in the gearbox stuck in a nook in the casting.  Fun stuff.  I did finally get the casting on and the rods in place.  I wore out my patience so I'll finish up the rest tomorrow. 

 

Here you can see the bump on the washer that slides in the boss in the casting.  Fortunately you can access this with a small screwdriver to make sure it is oriented correctly.

 

IMG_4104.thumb.jpg.51bbb89bcf39d6532b33e66adb31744d.jpg

 

I found wrapping the wire (I'm using 14 gauge solid electrical wire) around the studs on one end, then lifting on the other, then wrapping and switching to the other side is an effective way of getting the layshaft into position.  Don't forget to wiggle the main shaft a little as you need to get the gears to mesh with the layshaft.

 

IMG_4105.thumb.jpg.504effa82ac676001dfb57d4be439d1b.jpg

 

Here you can see the bushing I found.  It fits perfectly between the circlip on the shaft and the main bearing (it is the newer looking bushing next to the ball bearing on the upper right).  I did find the other bushing and the reason I missed it was because it had "spun" itself into a semi-bowl shape and I thought it went under the spring on the end of the tail shaft!!!   Even if I did understand where it went and flattened it out, it wasn't even 40 thou thick.

 

IMG_4106.thumb.jpg.4e37bf6abb8fa3731a5e8805c30242cf.jpg

 

And finally... I touched up the paint on the tail shaft casting and it looks pretty similar to how it came from the factory.

 

IMG_4107.thumb.jpg.c5a3f9df3c50be70a9222995f8efc43f.jpg

Edited by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

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Great work, but I know the feeling of taking 3 hours to do 20 minute jobs.  That's every time I work on it.  Looking really good and still making fast progress.

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Gearboxes can certainly be very frustrating. And the first road test tells whether you got it right, or whether some part had a little too much wear.

It sounds like you are running off the workshop manual, without the exploded parts diagram. With odd-ball cars I like to work off the parts book diagrams, though they are not always easy to find. A good one will include codes for each bolt, nut, washer, etc, so that you soon recognise from the parts list the correct grade and size of fastenings stipulated by the factory. I find it satisfying to get it as near as possible to how it left the factory, (although I have no interest in entering concourse events). But I am less likely to leave washers, speedo drives etc out if I follow the parts diagrams. Especially with extended periods between tear-down and assembly. My memory is not what it once was, unfortunately.

Keep it up, you're going great.

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Yep, the parts diagram is key and the way to go. I have two different exploded parts diagram but they (I assume) were originally hand drawn and the detail isn't the greatest.   I think they made some changes as they went and the drawings likely didn't get updated.  I try to go through the parts diagram and arrange the parts before I start assembly.  I haven't had much issue with that technique until the gearbox.  The drawings are quite vague and there are enough parts that it overflows my brain.  I do a pretty good job taking pictures and putting items in marked zip-loc bags as well.  In the case of this latest screw-up,  the bearing and bushing where zip tied together but I ignored that because it didn't look like a bushing.   In hindsight that should have been my signal to stop and get that resolved.   But hey... now I know that gearbox backwards and forwards ;)   

 

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Once pulled down and rebuilt a Rover P4 box for layshaft bearings. Got it back together and installed, and ran the engine to check - the gearbox cover off (large floor panel - box comes out up into the interior). Wow , thats noisy, we thought. Pulled it down again, replaced the mainshaft bearings as well (had looked good), same result. Consulted experts - Oh, they are all noisy without the floor bolted down!

jp 26 Rover 9

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7 hours ago, jp928 said:

Once pulled down and rebuilt a Rover P4 box for layshaft bearings. Got it back together and installed, and ran the engine to check - the gearbox cover off (large floor panel - box comes out up into the interior). Wow , thats noisy, we thought. Pulled it down again, replaced the mainshaft bearings as well (had looked good), same result. Consulted experts - Oh, they are all noisy without the floor bolted down!

jp 26 Rover 9

 

Sounds very similar to a series 2 Landrover box. I listened to them for many thousands of miles, echoing through the alloy panels.

 

I make a point of not wearing my hearing aids around the cars. All those scary noises freak me out. They all sound great without the aids, though.  (Industrial deafness caused by Landrovers).

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P4 box was almost identical to those used in LR, except maybe addition of 2nd synchro , and removal of freewheel. Here is my last LR - 1978 SIII, Air Portable, more commonly know as a Lightweight - under 1 ton so they could be dropped by parachute.

 

https://imgur.com/OArUPk0

 

jp 26 Rover 9

Edited by jp928 (see edit history)
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Wow!, Have not seen a LR with it's skirts up like that one. Mind, it's a long time since I looked, as well. I still have have a huge respect and affection for the series 2, having crossed and re-crossed Aus in them many times,  sometimes towing a second one on an 'A' bar behind. Rugged, reliable, and able to handle most terrain. But they were SLOW. 50 mph cruising speed, and as noisy as all get-out. But around 1978 I bought my first Toyota Landcruiser, and haven't looked back. Cruise all day at 70mph, with 1 1/4 ton on the back. Made a lot more sense, in this country.

My apologies, Luv2wrench, but we seem to have sidetracked a bit here. Still talking Pommie cars, though, you notice.

 

Mick.

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Slightly further on that side track, I thought by 1978 LR had high mudguards on the front. That looks like an earlier one with lower mudguards. The one I drove at work in the '70s certainly had high 'guards, nearer the bonnet level, with higher headlights too.

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39 minutes ago, Spinneyhill said:

Slightly further on that side track, I thought by 1978 LR had high mudguards on the front. That looks like an earlier one with lower mudguards. The one I drove at work in the '70s certainly had high 'guards, nearer the bonnet level, with higher headlights too.

 Spinney, I think that one is a special body design for the forces. It looks like a series 3, by the hinges, but the guards and bonnet line are quite different from a regular LR.

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These LR were a special lighter than usual body on SWB - note the hood/bonnet has a bevel at the front, more clearance under the fender/guards. There was also a toolbox at the left rear wheel in the top rear corner of the wheel well. There was a whole bunch all sold at once, and included some FFR (24V Fitted for Radio). The black squiggle on the door was where the National guard logo was over sprayed. Since women werent allowed to drive there at the time (only just happened now), wife only got drive when out in the sand, and she loved it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_1/2_ton_Lightweight

Sorry for the hijack!

jp 26 Rover 9

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I had to take a break this week so I was looking to make some good progress today.  I wanted to get the gearbox buttoned up and then start rebuilding the carbs.  I got the safety wire done in the gearbox, got the gaskets in place and buttoned everything up.  I went to add the flange (piece at the end that links with the driveshaft) and ran into problems.  The flange goes into the tail casting with a felt seal that goes around it.  Unfortunately there's no way to get that piece on the tail shaft, into the casting and also inside the felt seal.  This seal is just too small, it is meant to be stretched around the flange.  This meant I had to break the gearbox back down again.  All that safety wire, gaskets, etc, all came out.  I had to take the tail casting off, stick the flange in it, then shove the felt seal down through the casting, around the flange and into the slot in the casting.   It appears the very last piece that you'd think to install actually goes in first.  I read pretty carefully through the workshop manual and a couple of websites on rebuilding the gearbox and I don't recall reading that tidbit of information.  Oh well, it is together now and waiting to go in the car.  The whole process took about 4 hours so I really didn't get anything else done.  Feels like a lost week so I'm hoping to make some progress next week.  I did get in a nice batch of parts I was waiting on so hopefully it will go smoothly. 

 

IMG_4148.thumb.jpg.3723534bc75dbbcbe43100edd02ef81a.jpg

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