1952 MG TD

[Luv2Wrench]

5 minutes ago, JV Puleo said:

That really looks good - and while cotter pins may be a headache to work with but they make the job look REALLY finished. Practically everyone left them out.

 

I think I would have used that cast aluminum accessory valve cover. I had a new one years ago that I was given by the parts department where I worked as they were no longer an MG dealer. I suspect it was a dealer supplied option. At the time, I was told it was for a TD although I used it on an MGA. They also gave me a NOS set of TD hubcaps for the steel wheels.

 

Thanks Joe.  I could still use the other valve cover,  I didn't think about it.  When I saw it was different I just assumed that it was because the parts car was a year older.   I'll check into that... it is a good idea. 

 

[Bush Mechanic]

Those SU's look very neat. And the brass fittings set them off nicely. You should have no trouble picking up a pair of original brass damper lids to finish them off. Well done, mate.

[Luv2Wrench]

Took the choke linkages off to switch them and while doing so noticed there was a lot of slop in the whole system.  First part of the problem was I didn't get the needle/jet sealer nut tight enough.  Once I got that tighter it would pivot correct but, of course, that meant the jets were not centered anymore.  Had to take the dashpots back off and go through the centering process again.  I found a fairly simple way of doing so.  While Moss sells a tool I forgot to buy it, instead I got some shim stock and formed a metal straw of sorts.  I stuck that between the jet and the main body which, in effect, holds it centered (as these are concentric circles all I'm doing here is filling in the gap so the inner 'circle' can't move).  After getting that together there was still more slop than I wanted.  I noticed that the previous owner had replaced one of the pins in the linkage with a bolt.  I replace the bolt with the proper pin but what I didn't notice was the PO had enlarged the hole to get the bolt in.  I turned a new pin, drilled a hole for the cotter pin and that cleared up the problem.  So now I'm done with the carbs, again.  

I need to bake the exhaust manifold and then get that on.  After that I need to swap the ring gear, install the flywheel, starter, pressure plate, clutch, bell housing and gearbox.  There are a few odds and ends up front that need to be finished and then I'll be able to put it in the car.  That will certainly be a milestone moment!

 

Bush Mechanic: yeah, brass damper lids would look great!

 

[hursst]

Fantastic and fast work!

[jp928]

One oddity I see - one carb damper piston seems to have the needle retaining screw visible, but not the other? Are these pistons keyed so they only fit in one way ? My HS2 pison has a slot in the side that keys on a piece on the engine side of the throat, and the needle retaining screw is on the side of the piston towards the front or rear of the engine. Wonder why this is done? So that the screw wont be ingested by the engine if it comes loose. Stromberg CD carbs dont do this and I once had an early Rangie that swallowed the needle screw - it would start and run with a clacking noise, but I couldnt turn it over with the crank handle. Obvious when the head came off, (which also involved a brken head bolt), and then the carb got dismantled to verify. Screw was VERY flat!.

jp 26 Rover 9

[Luv2Wrench]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:13 PM, jp928 said:

One oddity I see - one carb damper piston seems to have the needle retaining screw visible, but not the other? Are these pistons keyed so they only fit in one way ? My HS2 pison has a slot in the side that keys on a piece on the engine side of the throat, and the needle retaining screw is on the side of the piston towards the front or rear of the engine. Wonder why this is done? So that the screw wont be ingested by the engine if it comes loose. Stromberg CD carbs dont do this and I once had an early Rangie that swallowed the needle screw - it would start and run with a clacking noise, but I couldnt turn it over with the crank handle. Obvious when the head came off, (which also involved a brken head bolt), and then the carb got dismantled to verify. Screw was VERY flat!.

jp 26 Rover 9

 

I'm puzzled by that as well and yes, they are keyed so they only fit one way.  I looked back at some video I shot before taking them apart and that's the way they were when I got them.  The damper pistons are different as well, one is brass and the other is aluminum with a steel weight (to make it weight the same as the brass one).  These dampers don't have the spring like the later models do.   I think I have another brass damper and I might switch them out.  The screw does have locktite blue on it so I'm not worried about it coming out.  Throughout the car I've kept the use of spring washers (lock washers), castle nuts, cotter pins, etc but I've also used modern thread locking sealants both to keep things together and to keep things from seizing should I need to take them apart.

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Luv2Wrench
speling prlbems (see edit history)

[JV Puleo]

I suspect that one of the carburetors is a replacement though it may have been done a very long time ago.

[Luv2Wrench]

It has been nearly a week since I got much work done on the car.   It has been back to school time and my son has had a couple of golf trips so we've been pretty busy.  I've also made a couple of tools runs, the latest of which was very successful.  I managed to score a late 1890s or early 1900s Hendey shaper (15").   I haven't gotten it back to the shop yet so no pictures.  I picked up some other items and met some really nice people.   I did manage to get into the shop this afternoon and evening and was able to get a little work done.  I had painted the exhaust manifold with a high temp paint and it needed to be cured.  The directions called for heating at 250 degrees F for 30 minutes, cool for 30 minutes, heat at 400 for 30 minutes, cool for 30 minutes and finally heat at 600 for 30 minutes and cool.   I also needed to replace the ring gear so I thought it would be efficient to combine the tasks.  While going through the initial heating cycles I removed the old ring gear and prepared the flywheel.  On the last cycle at 600F, I added the new ring gear and let everything heat for 30 minutes.  The new ring gear easily slid onto the flywheel and then shrunk down nicely.  I prepared some other parts that I will paint tomorrow and then I will be focused on final assembly of the engine (flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, distributor, oil pump, etc, etc) and getting it in the car.  I doubt I'll make enough progress to be able to start it but I should get a lot closer.  

[Spinneyhill]

Good progress is being made!

 

Do you really want to start it then have it sit full of combustion products and probably condensation for a year or three while you work on the rest of the car? Might it be better to leave it for a while, until the body is on and much further along and you are nearly ready for the front clip to go on? Then you can still start it and access to the engine is still easy if you need to do anything?

[Luv2Wrench]

13 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Good progress is being made!

 

Do you really want to start it then have it sit full of combustion products and probably condensation for a year or three while you work on the rest of the car? Might it be better to leave it for a while, until the body is on and much further along and you are nearly ready for the front clip to go on? Then you can still start it and access to the engine is still easy if you need to do anything?

 

Thanks for your thoughts, very sound advice.  I am still under the assumption (delusion) that I will have the car completed this year.   The body doesn't need much work so my plan is to go ahead and fit it to the frame, assemble the complete car sans some interior pieces and drive it.  Get the kinks outs, make sure everything is working properly and then take the body panels back off and get them painted.   It probably won't go that way and I'll probably wish I followed your advice but that's the plan for now.

 

[Luv2Wrench]

Got the carbs and exhaust manifold on as well as the generator, timing cover and a bunch of oil galley plugs and such.  As usual I'm missing a couple of pieces and some nuts and bolts so I'm stalled again for a bit. 

 

[Luv2Wrench]

I was able to put in a lot of hours this weekend but progress was still kinda slow.  It seemed every component I went to put on the engine had some problem.  First I tried to put the water pump pulley on.  When I tightened the nut the water pump wouldn't turn.  After a lot of figuring I realized that as I tightened the nut, it pulled the shaft (and pump vane) toward the front where it then locked up against the pump casting.  I looked around for a missing washer or spacer but realized the spacing was the problem, I needed less spacing.  I then remembered that the water pump did have a little wobble when I took it apart.  I had assumed that was the bearings but I had taken it apart and they were not a problem.  I measured the length of the shaft and then the depth of the pulley and realized to tighten the nut all the way down it was pulling the shaft forward.  I put the pulley in the lathe and turned down about 50 thousandths and all was fine.  Nice smooth rotation and no wobble. 

 

The next big issue was the thermostat.  Way back when the car was built with a different style thermostat that, as it opened, would shut off the bypass opening in the thermostat opening.  There are some reproduction thermostats made today but they are really pricey.  There are replacement housings sold but those are very pricey.   The common solution seems to be machining out the top of the housing so that it will accept a modern thermostat.  Then it need to be affixed in some manner and the bypass needs to be restricted.   Without a 4-jaw chuck I couldn't grab the housing so I bought a pipe nipple and flange.  I put that in the lathe and trued it up.  Then I drilled some holes in it so that I could attach the housing.  Once that was chucked in the lathe I was able to widen the opening and make room for a modern thermostat.  To keep it in place I chose to cut off a slice of a 2" pipe, cut a slot in that and then squeeze it down over the thermostat and into the housing.  I used a little JB weld between the sleeve and the housing to make sure it stayed in place but the force from the fit should be enough.  If I need to replace the thermostat I should be able to heat it up a bit and pull out the sleeve. 

 

I also rebuilt the distributor, finished rebuilding the oil filter and got the front engine mount bracket installed.  Yesterday afternoon I spent over 3 hours hunting for the small elbow that attaches to the side of the thermostat housing for the bypass.  It was something that I remembered seeing the very first time I went through all the parts after bringing the car home.  I remember looking at it and thinking it was important and that I should put it somewhere important.  Unfortunately it appears I thought the box with the dash gauges was just the place for it.  After 6 months that seemed like the last place I would have put it... and it was indeed the last place I looked.   At least I found it.

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

1 hour ago, Luv2Wrench said:

and it was indeed the last place I looked.

Of course it was! If you were as daft as me you might just keep on looking, because you are finding interesting things.

[Luv2Wrench]

7 hours ago, Spinneyhill said:

Of course it was! If you were as daft as me you might just keep on looking, because you are finding interesting things.

I resemble that comment.... there was one more box so I went through it as well...

 

[JV Puleo]

I have a couple of things that have gone missing in the shop... as soon as I've sent the manifold off to be coated I'm doing a major "straighten up". It's something I have to do at least once a year as things start to disappear. Actually, I'm pretty careful about where I put things because otherwise, I'd spend half my time looking for things I just had in my hand.

[Mike Macartney]

It's not only me then who looses things, that I just in my hand a moment ago. Often I have to ask my wife to come into the workshop to look for things that I have put done somewhere! Jane's great at finding the bits.

[Luv2Wrench]

I've now lost parts off the parts car that I specifically took off knowing that I needed them.   The shop is pretty organized as well so it is likely I accidentally threw them away during a cleanup.   Fortunately the things I'm missing at this point are easily purchased and not very expensive.   I guess I should figure two parts cars for my next restoration!

 

[frank29u]

Great work.  I'm appreciate the expertise folks have here.  Hope Florence is kind to you, yours and everyone else in her path.

[Luv2Wrench]

Not sure if I posted the last couple of video links.  Here is the latest one, not really anything you guys haven't seen.

 

 

[jp928]

Good stuff!  Wish I had done some video of my work. Re big end bearings - its common practice to cover the big end bolts (before the big ends are pulled onto bearings) with some rubber or plastic tubing so they dont mark the journals on the way through.

Also note that the arms on the front lever shocks have protrusions on them that look like ears you would use to pull the arms off with a 2 leg puller, but they face the wrong way?

After honing the m/cyl I would have polished the bore with some fine wet and dry paper, with oil on it, then wash with meths or similar non mineral solvent. Looks like the same m/cyl as used in Morris Minors, but considerable easier to R&R!

jp 26 Rover 9

[Luv2Wrench]

Thanks jp! 

 

As to why the ears face the wrong way, I don't really know... maybe just to infuriate you?   Maybe they designed a special tool such that only they could easily pull them off. 

Yeah I should have run some 600 in the bore but I didn't think about it.  I'll remember that in the future.  Thanks for the reply and tips!

 

[Luv2Wrench]

So the BIG milestone of getting the engine off the stand so I could put on the flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, bell housing, gearbox etc was rudely interrupted when I tried to install the flywheel.  Seems that the flywheel has to be installed before the lower half of the engine (oil sump) is mated to the block.   Not 100% sure how I'll proceed with that.  I'll test fit the engine stand again to see if it is possible to get the flywheel in there with it attached and if so, then that will be pretty straightforward.  If not, well, that's not going to be fun.   Live and learn...

[Laughing Coyote]

13 minutes ago, Luv2Wrench said:

Seems that the flywheel has to be installed before the lower half of the engine (oil sump) is mated to the block.

Hope that's not the case.  That would not be a fun time.  I had my share of re-do's also. You will get it figured out.

[Luv2Wrench]

Yes, the flywheel does have to be installed before the bottom half it attached.  I don't think it is a huge issue because of a couple of things:  First, I used a gasket dressing so I should be able to remove the bottom half pretty easily without disturbing the gasket.  Second, I don't actually have to get the flywheel installed onto the crank, rather, I just need to get it in there and then close up the bottom half.  I'll post a picture tomorrow and I think it will make more sense.  

The other fun news for the day was to find out that the new clutch the PO purchased and carefully wrapped up for storage somehow got oil in it.  Time to order a new one.

 

[Luv2Wrench]

Took the bottom half off and even with the gasket dressing the gasket ripped into a million pieces.  Fortunately I had another gasket.  Here's a shot of the upper half of the engine with the flywheel installed.  You should be able to see how the casting goes around the flywheel thus the flywheel has to go on before the two halves are joined.   Fortunately there was room to get my hand in there between the flywheel and engine stand mount and get two bolts in to hold it in place.  I put the other two in, torqued and safety wired them after taking the engine back off the engine stand.  Now I'm waiting on the new clutch.  

[Roger Zimmermann]

English construction and complexity! This has at least one benefit: the outside dimension from the flywheel housing is smaller, important for a small car.

[Luv2Wrench]

Clutch disc finally came in and I was able to get the clutch, pressure plate, bell housing and gearbox on the engine.  It is very nice to have the engine in the car!!   I have a bunch of things to add tomorrow and over the next week. I'm hopeful that I can try starting it next weekend though we do have plans to be out of town.  

 

[Laughing Coyote]

Looks good!  Making good progress.

[JV Puleo]

That is looking really good Jeff.

[hursst]

Fantastic progress!

[Luv2Wrench]

Managed to get out to the shop today for the first time in a week or so.   A couple of weeks ago I tried to plate a bolt and the plating solution had major issues.   I talked to Caswell but there didn't seem to be anything that could be done, some kind of contamination of the solution had occur.  The support person said that "this happens a lot".   That was pretty frustrating because the plating kit cost a lot of money and the solution was supposed to last "forever".  I looked around on the web and found a couple of different formulas for zinc plating and picked the one that had the best pictures   This new solution worked really well and I was able to get a lot of parts plated which was very helpful as I have multiple components waiting to go on the car that needed various bits of hardware plated. 

 

One of the components waiting was the radiator and once I got the engine stabilizer plated I was able to get it mounted.  I thought this would be a pretty simple procedure but it was anything but.  The lower mounting bracket needed to come off, get connected to the radiator and then rotate the assembly up, connect hoses and reattach the mounting bracket.   I hoping that doesn't have to come back out again.

 

The steering assembly has another piece waiting and it had another issue.  One of the special bolts that I removed from the parts car broke as I took it off.  Moss wanted $17 for the bolt and of course there's $12 shipping and another 4 day wait, so I put some steel in the lathe and made a bolt.   It came out very nice and I'm getting a much better feel for the lathe.  I've tweaked a few things on it and I've been able to take much heavier cuts as well as getting a much better finish.   I don't have the mill hooked up yet so I had to cut the hex head by hand with a file.   I did it by eye and it turned out a little small but it fits ok in the socket wrench and will work fine.  I plated the new bolt and the older ones and I'll get the steering assembly on next week.

 

 

Finally, I'd like to thank Mike Macartney for turning me on to Old Engine Oil beer.  This is a black ale brewed in Scotland and while quite expensive here in the States, it is well worth every penny.  Thanks Mike!!

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by Luv2Wrench (see edit history)

[Laughing Coyote]

Nice work on the car and bolt. You did deserve a beer. 

[JV Puleo]

How did you thread it? I'd have thought the MG would have Whitworth or BSF threads.

[Roger Zimmermann]

4 hours ago, Luv2Wrench said:

 

 

One of the components waiting was the radiator and once I got the engine stabilizer plated I was able to get it mounted.  I thought this would be a pretty simple procedure but it was anything but.  The lower mounting bracket needed to come off, get connected to the radiator and then rotate the assembly up, connect hoses and reattach the mounting bracket.   I hoping that doesn't have to come back out again.

 

Who said that English cars are easy?

[Mike Macartney]

I am very glad to hear that you enjoyed the 'Old Engine Oil' beer.

You can buy hexagon bar in various sizes that makes making bolts and nuts a lot easier than making them out of round bar. You did really well with filing the flats on the bolt. I would be Interested to see photos of your zinc plated parts. I have only ever used nickel plating on, vintage and veteran motorcycle parts, that I have restored in the past. I have found with nickel plating It always seems to be a bit of a lottery whether or not the part will turn out OK. I knew that Frost did other types of plating kits but as the kits are expensive I have never tried any of the other types of plating.

Mike

[Luv2Wrench]

7 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

How did you thread it? I'd have thought the MG would have Whitworth or BSF threads.

 

Yes, they are Whitworth heads with BSF threads.  One of the first purchases I made when I got the car was a tap and die set for BSF threads.    They're high quality and I've had no problem cutting threads with them. 

[Luv2Wrench]

3 hours ago, Mike Macartney said:

I am very glad to hear that you enjoyed the 'Old Engine Oil' beer.

You can buy hexagon bar in various sizes that makes making bolts and nuts a lot easier than making them out of round bar. You did really well with filing the flats on the bolt. I would be Interested to see photos of your zinc plated parts. I have only ever used nickel plating on, vintage and veteran motorcycle parts, that I have restored in the past. I have found with nickel plating It always seems to be a bit of a lottery whether or not the part will turn out OK. I knew that Frost did other types of plating kits but as the kits are expensive I have never tried any of the other types of plating.

Mike

 

I hadn't thought of getting some hexagon bar, that's a great idea.  A couple feet of various sizes would be great to have on hand, thanks for the tip!

 

The last two photos above show the zinc plating.  The first (of the last two) shows the parts before plating and the second is them after plating.   They could be smoother and brighter but I'm just going for protection here.  I media blast them, etch, rinse, plate, rinse, blue chromate, rinse and dry.  They usually need a little buffing in the end. 

[Mike Macartney]

Sorry, I should have noticed that the second photo was of the bolts plated. I quickly looked and thought they had just been cleaned up. I'll look up plating kits on the web and see what's on offer. What is the blue chromate, that's a new one to me?

[Luv2Wrench]

Mike, I started with Caswell's copy-cad plating kit and while it did work well until the solution failed, I'm not sure I'd recommend that route.   I used the formula that this guy used http://www.gomog.com/allmorgan/ZincPlatingAtHome.html and it worked fine for me.  I did use Caswell's blue chromate as a last step.   Here's some info here: https://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/zinc-plating-kits/chromates/blue-chromate-8oz-makes-1-quart.html  I haven't had any issue with this solution getting contaminated and I continue to use it and imagine I will for years to come. 

[Mike Macartney]

Jeff, Many thanks for the information and links. It seems to be a good method to plate and protect small 'bright' parts. I looked at both the links. When I looked at the Caswell site it said 'out of stock'. Looking into other sources for the blue chromate it looks as if may have been banned from use in Europe - bloody EU unelected autocrat's seem to spoil most peoples fun! I'll keep looking, and dig out my nickel plating kit, which I haven't used for a couple of years, maybe more, and see what extra bits I need to have a go at zinc plating. Mike