Late 1920's LINCOLNS

[1937hd45]

This Lincoln turned up in a magazine add, I've always thought the late 1920's Lincolns were great looking cars, any stories or history lessons to be shared? Bob 

[JustDave]

In the 60s I made friends with and older gent named harold hoe in so calif,he had a 1928 Lincoln touring that had belonged to Kay’s lion farm which I believe where in montebello calif,this car had been on several safaris around the world,the lion farm used the Lincoln in parades with a lion in the back seat,mr hoe had acquired the car in the middle50s and rechromed everything  but left the original brown leather interior complete with claw marks,I remember the car was ivory with black fenders badges from the safaris hung on the front and it had the biggest running board spot light I have ever seen,it had huge red wire wheels and mr hoe would brag about the car having so German silver,I remember helping him install new Jan’s pistons I was about 14 so that would have been 1964,I remember piping up one time telling him I would wax it,six days later and countless inspections I finally finished,he payed me six dollars and supplied the wax,upon his death the car was willed to the Lincoln museum along with his one owner 57 continental,I heard the museum sold the 2 cars,such a shame he really loved that Lincoln,  just Dave

[Brass is Best]

These are lovely cars and provided the inspiration for the Model A Ford styling. Edsel Ford and his team just scaled down the Lincoln and they had a smart looking Ford.

[wayne sheldon]

The model L Lincoln was a marvelous work of engineering in its day. I have never owned one, but have quite a few friends that have (or did have) them. I have also driven one for quite a few miles myself. One of my longest time best friends had one (big seven passenger sedan) for nearly forty years as his one special antique car (the one I drove several times). Another of my best friends has a beautiful five passenger sedan, with its original steel disc wheels (a rare option on Lincoln). 

I was also very fortunate to have known Jack Passey for many years (my dad had attended college with Jack's younger brother Bill). Jack seemed to love his Lincolns most of all. And they seemed to always justify his passion for them. Big, fast, powerful, they were more reliable than most cars of that era, and a pleasure to drive. What more could you want in a classic era antique?

 

I don't claim to be an expert, and certainly Jack's expertise showed me how little I know about some of these things (Jack really was a marvel himself!). However, is that first OP sedan photo a Judkins? Mostly when I have seen a Judkins, it has been a coupe.

 

[Guest]

Hey Dave,

                     Just a small correction; it was Gay's Lion Farm in El Monte, CA. It existed from approx. 1925-1942.  There is a monument at an overpass for the I-10 Freeway here, east of L.A. at the former location. I managed to find a (very poor quality) picture of the car during the time Mr. Hoe owned it. The picture is from one of those archive newspaper sites you have to pay and join in order to get full access to photos but the article does confirm all you said about the car. It is a real shame the car seems to have been lost to the sands of time. The partial article, dated Feb.18, 1954, reads as follows:

 

" ... there was a man named Charles Gay. In fact, It was Charles Gay who used to bundle a lion or two in the rear seat of his automobile and take them for a Sunday drive. Today, that same automobile, manufactured in 1928, carries Mr. and Mrs. Harold Hoe of the Covina Knolls on pleasure trips through California. The old car is a 25-year-old seven passenger Lincoln Phaeton, once the property of Mr. and Mrs. Charles Gay, founders of the world famous Gay's Lion Farm, formerly located in El Monte. ROSE PARADE Old timers in this area may recall seeing the Gays out for a ride with a couple of massive beasts in the tonneau. Or perhaps you may have seen it in the Rose Parade where It became almost a yearly-fixture. The Gays drove the Lincoln for many years, but preserved it so well that the original tires are still on the car. The upholstery bears minor scratches, put there by the paws of the lions,as they tried to hold on during a fast stop or a sharp curve. Mr. Hoe has replaced the .top — the only major job required to put the auto in showroom condition again. TOURED EUROPE  Mr. and Mrs. Gay first purchased the car in April, 1928 A few months later they shipped It to La Rue, France, to be used while they toured Europe. The shipping tag is still preserved on the floor board old the car. The European license plate and the skull and crossbones radiator ornament acquired during their travels in the, early thirties, are still mounted on the car. After their tour of the continent, the Gays shipped the Lincoln back to the states and returned to El Monte...."

 

If, by chance the car still exists, intact, it may be identifiable by the unusual radiator ornament mentioned in this article.

Best, Greg

[Friartuck]

How appropriate this thread was started. I own two model L Lincolns and have been involved with them since 1981. I have a small website on them at:

http://friartuck.x10.mx/Lincoln/

 I would encourage reading the page on the History page and Henry Leland. I think my avatar says it all.

The model L was basically the same from inception (1921) till 1930 Lincoln. They used 15 body builders during that period:

1.Murray

2.American

3. H.H. Babcock

4. Brunn

5. J.B. Judkins

6. Lang

7. Fleetwood.

8. Hollbrook

9. LeBaron

10. Lincoln built

11. Dietrrich

12. Willoughby

13. Locke

14. Derham

15. LeBaron (Detroit plant)

The significance of listing them this way is that the numbers correspond to the body/car tag on under the passenger seat cushion (you never who may need this info). Brass is Best comment is quite fitting. Edsel's influence on design was quite noticeable at Lincoln and appears to have filtered into Ford. The OP picture is a 1929. The clue is the Hex shape hubcap, the only year that design was used. As for body, my guess is either Judkins because of the unusual windshield design or Willoughby because of the hoop style door handles.  On average, Lincoln produced about 4,000 vehicles per year. A chassis took about one month to assemble however a body took 4-5 months to fabricate. Hence the extensive outsourcing of body builders.

 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Friartuck (see edit history)

[JustDave]

1.  hey greg thanks for straightening me out 50 years sometimes your memory gets a little cloudy,i still remember mr hoe and the Lincoln,he was like a second dad to me,everything he did for you came with a lesson in life,i am thankful to have known him and his wife ruth,i believe I saw the Lincoln for sale I believe about 10 years ago in Utah if memory serves me right,no running board spot light and no grille badges,i believe mr hoe left it to the Lincoln museum to be preserved in its original state,to bad they just saw dollar signs,makes you wonder what toi do when your gone

[1937hd45]

Bob Stark was a member of our AACA/HCCA Region and had a 1929 Lincoln that came with 1928 front fenders, hood, and radiator shell, this was at the request of the original owner. I think it had a Merrimac four door body. I got to drive it once, the only Vintage Lincoln I've had the pleasure to drive. He left it to the CCCA Museum I believe. Bob 

 

 

Did a Google search and found this photo of the exBob Stark Lincoln, I think it was ordered new by Alex Stein's mother, so Bob was the second owner of the car. 

Edited March 2, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[jrbartlett]

1937hd45 -- What do you know of Alex Stein? I know of him through Locomobile circles.

[1937hd45]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think his money came from the Steinway piano company. He lived on the shore in Byram, Ct, had several Locomobile 48's, a Rolls Royce, the Lincoln, and a fair amount of Loco parts and literature. His 1919 Loco was on the 1950 Glidden  Tour with the 1912 Model T that is in my garage as I type this. I believe he was still driving Vintage cars into his 90's. Bob 

[motoringicons]

Model L Lincolns, especially the 1928-19230 models, are great cars. Well built, reliable, great to drive and highly undervalued. Even the standard factory bodies are great looking on these cars and some of the lower production custom bodies are great too.

[Linus Tremaine]

I have been searching for a photo of the Gays Lion farm car for some time. I maintain the registry of model L lincolns for the Lincoln owners club and chase every lead. I have not been able to find what happen to the car or if it still exists. 

 

 

for those who are curious, there is a nice video on youtube about the history of the farm:

 

 

[auburnseeker]

That was a great story.  Thanks for the link.  You always wonder what happened to these places you hear about and what they were like.  

[1937hd45]

Was there any connection to Roscoe Turner and Gilmore? Bob 

 

Edited March 7, 2018 by 1937hd45 (see edit history)

[Pomeroy41144]

I named one of my dogs after Roscoe Turner.

[freud729]

Thanks for the link. Model L Lincolns are great cars. Tabela Fipe

[JustDave]

hello I was the one who originally answered about gays lion farm,the Lincoln as I remember was ivory with black fenders and brown interior,i believe I saw the car forsale I believe it was in Utah,it was missing the running board spot light and grille badges,as I remember the Lincoln was supposed to be willed to the Lincoln museum along with his white 57 continental,if you chk with the museum they may know who purchased it,its a shame the car was siold mr hoe wanted it preserved in its original state to bad the museum saw to discard it,if the car has been found in its original state there should be a shipping tag on the floor as I remember,also mr hoe had the cowl touched up but if you looked closely on the left side back by the door down close to the bottom of the cowl you could still see the gays lion farm insignia,also there was a Lincoln emblem on the dash that was missing,i remember mr hoe working about 3 weeks on the steering box he said he could hardly turn the wheels

[JustDave]

If the Lincoln is found I’d appreciate a private message or and email mr hoe and this car meant a lot to me,  dave

[Guest]

Where was this Lincoln museum?

[JustDave]

I don’t know mr hoe just told me had willed both Lincoln’s to the museum,this was probably 1974 or so,I do know from what I understand the museum came to his home and documented the 28 it must have been a known museum at that time mr hoe would have known before choosing,would like to know the truth about what happened to the car,    I don’t know how many Lincoln museums where operating at that time,but I specifically remember him saying the Lincoln museum not,I know at the time  he had a 1913 Cadillac that he restored in the late 60s or early 70s and a 1913 model t touring he called his hot rod it ha d wire wheels and aruxtell rear and a Frontenac overhead valve

[Linus Tremaine]

Dave,

when you saw the car for sale in utah, how did you know it was the same car?  did it still have the same colors?

 

L

[Linus Tremaine]

Also, 

do you recall if the car was a dual cowl or not? 

 

L

[Linus Tremaine]

also, do you know if Charles gay bought the car new?

 

L

[Linus Tremaine]

is this close?

 

L

[Guest]

Linus, when I read the vintage newspaper article I believe it inferred that Gay had purchased the car new.

[Guest]

I wonder if this could have been the car?

http://www.classicpromenade.com/inventory/1928-lincoln-model-l-7-passenger-touring-by-locke-three-owners-ca-car-since-new-oider-resto/

 

I found this undated ad for a 3 owner '28 Touring car here in Riverside, CA. Color combination looks correct (minus the red wheels) but car had been restored at one time.

Is it possible that Harold Hoe could have been the doctor mentioned in the listing? How many 3 owner 1928 Lincolns could there be in this area?

[JustDave]

Ok the car didn’t have a pop up cowl but it did have the second windshield,it was ivory with black fenders and red wheels,as far as I can remember mr gay bought it new,I remember having a long conversation Aton with mr hoe,ha said he knew about the car for a long time while it was stored in a shed,the story I was told was in was against mr gays religion to give mr hoe the car so he charged him 50.00 for it this was early 50s sometime,mr hoe owned hoe brothers construction they built high end homes in places like bel air he was not a doctor,is this the same car possibly,I, remember some identifying marks on the car that would have went away during restoration,I believe the Lincoln I saw in Utah  Eason the internet the seller was bragging he drove the car at 80 miles an hour,without the grille badges and the big spot light it’s hard to tell,     Dave

[Linus Tremaine]

That 28 Locke probably is not the car as it says the second owner restored it. I think Harold Hoe was the second owner of charles gays car and he did not restore it and intended for it to NOT be restored when he donated it in the 70s. Dave also says he saw the car ten years ago unrestored. 

 

That is a very nice car though it suffers from 70s color choices. 

[Linus Tremaine]

Dave,

do you recall if the body had this moulding feature?

This is a characteristic of LOCKE bodied lincolns. This car was for sale in southern california. It was restroed in the 1980s. A possible candidate. 

 

L

 

[JustDave]

 if I remember correctly it was a locke bodied car,i don't remember if it had the mldg package but I don't think so,the car I saw on the internet in Utah may or may not have been the same car,

it just struck me as being the same colors,i never saw the car with the top down and I don't think mr hoe ever put it down once it had been replaced sometime in the 50s, I know it didn't have whitewalls

its probably like looking for a needle in a haystack,as cars are bought and sold stories are told that aren't always true,i  im beginning to wonjder if the car was actually left to the museum,i hadn't seen mr hoe for about a year before his death  (my fault) im wondering if mrs hoe changed things and the car was sold,i know they had more money than god and didn't spend much,mr hoe also had a 1913 Cadillac touring he said was a rare body style I remember it had a bbi carburetor and a 14 2 speed rear end,and a 1913 model t kind of a terracotta color with wire wheels and a Frontenac overhead vale conversion,is someone knows about either of these cars it may help figure out what happened to the Lincoln,most of the older guys are gone now so the trail is coming to an end,hopefully this will jog peoples memory and someone will remember what happened

[Guest]

Dave, did the Hoes have any children that you might be able to follow up with?

[JustDave]

_{no they never had any children,i guess that's why I fell in love with them,mr hoe was a stearn cantankerous guy a fire cracker you might say,mrs hoe was a great lady and boy could she cook,the older I get the more I miss them what great people,as I said in an earlier post everything mr hoe did for you or discussed with you came with a lifes lesson}

_{didn't see it at the time but as I get older I see things he did a lot clearer,hope new can find out the real story about the cars, I believe mr hoe passed in 1977,     dave}