steelman

Aftermarket Chassis in a 65 Riviera

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I have the builder's permission to repost his pictures over here and he said he'd come check out what we think of it.

 

I'll start doing that tomorrow most likely.

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10 hours ago, CTX-SLPR said:

he said he'd come check out what we think of it.

Hope he has some thick skin. As you saw, not much tolerance for anything modified here.

And those Rushforth wheels look amazing.

Edited by steelman (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, steelman said:

Hope he has some thick skin. As you saw, not much tolerance for anything modified here.

And those Rushforth wheels look amazing.

Seems like its not his first rodeo for something like this.  I'm sure he's done worse to something else.

 

Going through the pictures and found almost the exact Rushforth wheel picture I used myself in there!  I'm going to get all of them downloaded then start posting them up.  The other thread I linked I'll ask their permission after I'm caught up with the current one.

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This evenings blast of Pictures: 

The floor work and trans tunnel inside and out.  Interesting to see the stock parts picking up at various points.

Floor1.png

Floor2.png

Floor3.png

Floor4.png

Floor5.png

Trans Tunnel Final.jpg

Trans Tunnel Final2.jpg

Trans Tunnel Final3.jpg

Trans Tunnel Mock1.jpg

Trans Tunnel Mock2.jpg

Trans Tunnel Mock3.jpg

Trans Mount1.jpg

Trans Mount2.jpg

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Not as much strength in those square corners as opposed to radius/rounded like stock. Square corners have a higher tendency to crack/break the reason for so much extra support in the middle.

Just my opinion.

 

 

Tom T.

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4 hours ago, telriv said:

Not as much strength in those square corners as opposed to radius/rounded like stock. Square corners have a higher tendency to crack/break the reason for so much extra support in the middle.

Just my opinion.

It's more than just an opinion.  Ask the guys who designed the DeHavilland Comet.

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Hey , when somebody sees this Riviera cruising at 30,000 feet with jet propulsion PLEASE POST PICTURES HERE !!!!

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Tonight's picture blast: Original frame with driveline, and engine bay mockup

Looks like they are keeping the factory wipers.  Also looks like they are keeping the same brake pedal and steering setup.  Be interesting to see how the brakes work for them if they keep the same pedal ratio.  I thought it made things long and squishy.

Original Loaded Frame1.jpg

Original Loaded Frame2.jpg

Firewall1.jpg

Firewall2.jpg

Firewall3.jpg

Firewall4.jpg

Engine Mock1.jpg

Engine Mock2.jpg

Engine Mock3.jpg

Engine Mock4.jpg

Engine Mock5.jpg

Engine Mock6.jpg

Accessory Mock1.jpg

Drivers Motor Mount and Rack.jpg

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9 hours ago, telriv said:

Not as much strength in those square corners as opposed to radius/rounded like stock. Square corners have a higher tendency to crack/break the reason for so much extra support in the middle.

Just my opinion.

 

 

Tom T.

I don't think those inner box sections are there because there is a square corner in that location, more because they want a stiffer body.  I don't like it much ascetically but they aren't a production shop with stamping machines and while it's going to be more prone to cracking I doubt this thing will ever seen anywhere close to the miles (even in anger on the autocross etc) to cause that to fail.    The more I look at it, the less I see copied from their other full frame products which leave me a bit puzzled at how they did the parts.  Honestly looks like they treated the car as a unibody and converted it from there.  Weird. 

62-67-Nova-Chassis-1-1024x682.jpg

Roadster Shop 62-67 Nova full-frame conversion

 

The bulges, with square corners, from what I can see are there to route the exhaust through since they did copy something of an X-frame taking up all the space under the floor pans.  Because of the flat floor, even with the paneling pieces, they had to add a lot of bracing and it's pretty close to what the frame has.  Interested to see what they do for seats and exhaust packaging in there.

5 hours ago, KongaMan said:

It's more than just an opinion.  Ask the guys who designed the DeHavilland Comet.

I wouldn't ask them, I'd ask the guys who figured out that they got crack propagation out of the window frames...  Also there are plenty of square body joints in the factory Riviera and other cars, just because a stressed skin aircraft had cracking issues doesn't mean that a full frame car will suffer from the same.  It's be worse if you did that in the middle of a shear plane vs. on the border, sure it could twist like a lidless shoe box but its not that likely to crack.

Edited by CTX-SLPR (see edit history)

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50 minutes ago, CTX-SLPR said:

I wouldn't ask them, I'd ask the guys who figured out that they got crack propagation out of the window frames... 

The guys who first figured that out fell out of the sky.

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In stock form the Riviera body it cradled on the frame, supported in front by four mounts at the base on the cowl and with two mounts at the top of the arch over the rear axle. The rigidity of the rocker panels carries the span between those mounts. The rest of the mounts take up lateral loads anddon't carry much weight. The oval mounts at the rear of my car hardly showed any compression and weren't replaced.

 

This car would be a rough ride with six or eight tight body mounts. It is going to ride like a skateboard anyway, but I can see the body taking a beating. My guess is cracks at the rear side glass and sail panel first. Building brackets to reestablish the original mounting concept would be a good move while everything is apart.

 

Reading up on the body mounting differences between B-body variations on this forum: http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/

might be a good idea, especially between the Roadmaster and the 9C1 mounting.

Bernie

 

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  Hello all. Im the guy with the project Riv. No we did not weigh anything for before and after. Yes I started with a nice car because the end result is always better that way. I did not have the heart to modify a GS though. I don't plan on doing any autocross or racing, just driving it. I usually do Hot Rod Power Tour and also do Good-Guys tours. These tours are usually 1500-2000 miles. Having something with a modern drivetrain makes these tours alot more fun.  The engine is the same as I have in a Camaro and it makes over 900 hp and TQ on 93 octane. In the Camaro I get between 17-20 mpg with the ac on. The LS engines are so good it makes road trips much less stressfull. I used to always be watching gauges etc. Now they are a non issue. Yes a stock Riv will cruise just fine but won't perform how I want it to. My friend Mark Stielow is babysitting the project. If you google him you will see he is one of the top ride and handling engineers at GM. My plan is to keep the orig. white paint and black interior. I believe the orig drivetrain will go to a friend that wants to drag his Dads 63 Riv out of a junkyard and get it together to give his Dad a ride in it.

 I do appreciate stock condition cars also. Here is my 66 Bonneville.

IMG_0427.jpg

IMG_9880.jpg

IMG_9881.jpg

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1 hour ago, CharleyL said:

  Hello all. Im the guy with the project Riv. No we did not weigh anything for before and after. Yes I started with a nice car because the end result is always better that way. I did not have the heart to modify a GS though. I don't plan on doing any autocross or racing, just driving it. I usually do Hot Rod Power Tour and also do Good-Guys tours. These tours are usually 1500-2000 miles. Having something with a modern drivetrain makes these tours alot more fun.  The engine is the same as I have in a Camaro and it makes over 900 hp and TQ on 93 octane. In the Camaro I get between 17-20 mpg with the ac on. The LS engines are so good it makes road trips much less stressfull. I used to always be watching gauges etc. Now they are a non issue. Yes a stock Riv will cruise just fine but won't perform how I want it to. My friend Mark Stielow is babysitting the project. If you google him you will see he is one of the top ride and handling engineers at GM. My plan is to keep the orig. white paint and black interior. I believe the orig drivetrain will go to a friend that wants to drag his Dads 63 Riv out of a junkyard and get it together to give his Dad a ride in it.

 I do appreciate stock condition cars also. Here is my 66 Bonneville.

IMG_0427.jpg

IMG_9880.jpg

IMG_9881.jpg

Love the Bonneville AND your Riv!. Sorta partial to white, lol. I am thinking of taking my stock Riv on parts of the Power Tour this year because I never have been before. The Bowling Green, Chattanooga, and Birmingham leg would be easy for me, since I live in NW Alabama. BTW, I have heard of Mark Stielow before, and if he is helping oversee your Riv project, I really don't think chassis issues will be a problem for you. Good luck with your build, and welcome to the Forum! Looking forward to more pics!

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                    If I were you I would definitely watch your gauges.......I'm in the car repair business(43 years) and we see LS engines blow

up at low mileage fairly  regularly, the most recent just last week. There are o-rings inside these engines that can fail and result in zero oil pressure. (Space Shuttle CHALLENGER)

The LS engine makes tremendous horsepower and runs great, but as far as cross country reliability, I'd have more faith in a nailhead. I had  a Chevy Silverado with an LS motor that I used to tow my car hauler and I sold it just because I didn't trust the engine not to leave

me stranded a thousand miles from home. I was inside the shop of my local Chevrolet dealer about six months ago and there was a row

of Silverados, Tahoes and Suburbans, all less than two years old with their engines out on the ground all torn apart.

Edited by Seafoam65 (see edit history)
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X2 with seafoam65. I have over 300K on my '64 Riv. with one rebuild on the original engine @120K. I'm the original owner also. Being a mecanic my whole life does have it's advantages also. I've been on a couple power tours on the east coast doing well over 3.5K miles both ways. With 3.07 gears, depending on terrain, have gotten a best of 19.5MPG. With the 3,90 gears & cruising at 60 can get 15.5MPG. 3.07's run 14.9's  With 3.90's have run a best of 13.902@98MPH. This rebuild was done YEARS AGO BEFORE i KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT"NAILS". It's definitely low compression by cranking compression of between 135-145. Lets see your average LS do that!!!! Sure they have power, but the low end grunt is not there. As I tell EVERYONE Torque is what gets you going. HP is what keeps you going. The MOST FUN driving these cars is light-light which doesn't require 7K+ RPM's. It's your car, your time & your $$$ to do with as you see fit. GOOD LUCK IN YOUR ENDEAVORS. These cars new were kinda over engineered.

Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

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At 3500 rpm my engine makes 966 ft pounds of tourque. I think I have put over 20k miles on my latest Camaro with the same engine as the Riv. No overheating even on 100 degree days with the ac running. Probably another 20k Miles in other LS powered Camaros with no issues. 

E870A15F-DC9F-4C21-AFE8-14AAFCCD5F25.jpeg

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             Charley the point is, be sure to keep an eye on your oil pressure gauge if you aren't going to go with an idiot light! If these engines

lose oil pressure suddenly they can be repaired if the engine is immediately shut down, if not you just bought yourself a 17,000 dollar engine.

Your car is awesome....thanks for sharing the pics with us! 

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Guys, this is the thing that irk's me about most forums.  A bunch of guys complaining about another guys build because they don't like it or it's something they would or wouldn't do and isn't of the norm.  Charley has several and I repeat, several, cars and high end builds.  He only has top notch builders work on his cars and Mark Stielow is one of the top engineers at GM.  Mark had great input on the new Chevy LT engine in the new C7 Vette's.  He also, designed and tested the new 2016 Camaro.  Charley knows what he is doing.  Hell, I lost count of how many cars he has.  If you guys are real car enthusiasts...I 'm willing to bet many of though nice builds out there that you've seen are some of Charley's cars.   Anything from mild to all out twin turbo cars.  It's his car and he can drive it off of a cliff if he wants to.  Can we all just enjoy the great custom fabbing going on here and if not, fine.  In my opinion I can pretty much assume the designing going on here will be an improvement over 50 year old technology...that's just me.  If it's not, then that's fine too.  Relax ladies...it'll be alright.  I think tomorrow will come even though Charley cut the original floor out of this car.

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I didn't see anybody complaining.....we have praised the build numerous times......very nice car. He said he doesn't need to look at his gauges

and this just is not so. Just trying to help......a lady last week cashed the engine on her Denali because she wasn't paying attention to her gauges.

Of course if 17K is nothing to him, then by all means leave the gauges off the dash....the look will be a lot cleaner. I speak for everybody here in saying the car is an awesome car.

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Maybe not you Seafoam65 and I'm not here to get into a pissing contest and I hope others aren't.  But, there are several innuendo's about the car and this and that about the frame and how it won't work.  Roadster Shop has built several cars with their frames that have placed and performed well in Good Guys autocross and OUSCI events.  They build $500k and up cars and are well known in the protouring world.  I get it...it's a forum and guys can say what they want all.  The thing about technology is in the mid 60's the X-frame was probably (censored).  I'm pretty sure it wasn't built for todays roads and to handle a 900 hp engine or speeds on a freeway upwards of 80-90 miles an hour.  While it will still do, the car world is evolving just like everything else non-car related around us is.  That's all.  Talk to any protourer and bring up Mark Stielow's name and it's instant respect.  The guy knows what he's doing.  Trust me...Mark and Charley aren't building a car to be weak at the corner welds because they're not rounded and not have the weight of the car not properly supported as some were saying. Just for clarification....no $17k isn't nothing to Charley.  LOL!!  Honestly, Charley must be bored as this is a mild build for him.  He's built $50k motors.

Edited by MrEarl
Remove profanity (see edit history)

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