carmover

25 Buick first start issues

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Sorry to read all of this.

 

To toss another idea at you.  Once saw a water pump packing gland turned down so tight the engine had trouble turning over.

 

I too had Jason Smith rebuild my starter generator and it came back looking and running like new.  I have not had to touch it since in the two years I have had it and ~4000 miles of touring.  You might ask Jason if he load tests units he rebuilds.  I believe he does but best to ask.

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C Carl made a good point about the oil pressure.  I once had a Jaguar that pumped out a significant amount of oil onto the driveway on start up because oil filter parts were not the same as in the past.  Fortunately we caught it fairly quickly, but almost did not in all the euphoria of getting a motor running.  Consider on your attempts, that your first run is without plugs and pulling the car only to establish oil pressure is good.  That everything has a chance to get lubricated at a low speed, and more importantly, that you have a chance to check for leaks prior to any large losses of oil.   We can't use a drill and prime our engines like modern cars.   

For the second attempt at starting, you could then put that little bit of gas in each cylinder prior to installing the plugs.    

We are rooting for you Ron.   

Hugh

Edited by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)
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I may pull it the first time without the plugs and see how it does.I plan to leave the valve cover loose so I can remove it and see if it is getting oil to the rockers and make sure it has good oil pressure.Then I can check for any leaks and let it run till it warms up and do the hot valve adjustment to 008.I did put new packing in the water pump and I may loosen it up a bit and see if that helps.I don't think I put it too tight because I was going to adjust it when I got it started.I appreciate everyone rooting for me ,I sure need it.

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I plan to oil the rockers up and everything else that moves.I am a little nervous about this and plan to use every precaution!

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The idea of getting the oil pressure up with the plugs out is the best idea yet ! When I start a long dormant "modern" antique engine , you know , the "modern" mills without oil pressure gauges , I crank them with plugs out until the oil pressure warning light goes out. They WILL pump up that way if the oil pump has a prime. I have primed back through the oil filter lines with a turkey baster. In making this oil pressure tow , you can/should use 3rd gear. And DO retard the spark on the start up run , that one slowly in 2nd. I hope someone makes a video of your antics so we can share in your success !  😄.     - Carl 

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You said you are planning to tow it to the starting location with the tractor. That will be a good time to pump up some oil, with the plugs out.

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I would have never thought of pulling it with the plugs out.I am getting a lot of great ideas from you guys.I plan to pull it first without the plugs and will let everyone know how it turns out.

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Jerry, I noticed the same thing when I was checking the starter out and tried a thin piece of paper under it and it is tightly against the commutator.It looked the same way when the shop tested it and it spun the starter.

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Since this thread has become quiet I will tell you what I have been doing to get ready for my first start of  my 1915 165 cu in engine.  All the  advice on oiling is not appropriate for me, I have no oil pressure.  My oil pump lifts oil to the sight glass and then drains to four connecting rod troughs.  So after the oil pan is filled to full I then add another gallon of 10w30 which will flood the engine and top up the troughs.  Then with no spark plugs I spin the engine over to splash oil into the catch basins over the main bearings and around the cam and lifters.  Then I drain the excess oil through the level tap on the side of the oil pan.  Even though the engine was built using an assembly lube, now it is soaked.  The timing gear case is separate from the crankcase and is lubed with gear oil and the valve stems and rockers are oiled by hand.

 

It is snowing today in southern Ontario.  I have to finish my wiring, connect a fuel line, mount a new coil and I ordered a new Optima battery because trying to get the lead/ acid one under the floor is a back breaker.  Check out my new flat leather fan belt my local shoe repair place made this week, $15.00.  Wish me good fortune, I hope to be on the road June 10th.   

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DSC_4473.JPG

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Be sure to  get a battery tender that charges at 3 amps or your optima battery will explode.I bought mine at walmart and it will work on 6 or 12 volts.I pulled started my 25 Buick today and adjusted the carb and ran it at a fast idle for 2 hours.We first pulled it without the plugs and the oil pressure came up and sent oil all the way up to the rockers.It ran cool with no overheating problems.I did a final valve adjustment after it warmed up and the engine runs great.Now for the sad part it still won't start with the starter.This is probably something simple  but at least I know the engine is not the problem.On another note my Wife was helping me by watching the valve action while I was turning the crank and adjusting the valves.The crank slipped and sent me diving head first into the drivers side headlight,no damage was done to the Buick but I feel like I have been in a bar fight with two mean Linebackers and my right eye is almost swolen shut.

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Ronnie: Glad you got it started sorry you had a self inflicted wound . Had a few my self. Hope  to see you soon.     Mike F.

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I am looking forward to it Mike, I should be heading up there in a week or so.I think my wife is coming with me.

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cxgvd,I wish you good fortune on getting your 15 Buick up and running. You will love the Optima battery it will hold a charge for up to 3 years and won't give you corrosion problems like the lead acid ones do just be sure not to never charge it with a regular charger.They have to be charged with a 3 amp battery tender.

Edited by carmover (see edit history)

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36 minutes ago, carmover said:

just be sure not to ever charge it with a regular charger.They have to be charged with a 3 amp battery tender

Huh?  What about driving the car with 20 or so amps going into the Optima?  How does that differ from a "regular charger" which perhaps you should define.  Your contention is not in the Optima literature.

 

I've been using Optimas exclusively for 15-20 years and have never been reluctant to top off with a 10A charger, occasionally with a roll-around charger on "low," and have had no ill effects.

 

Two points that are supported by Optima's literature:

1.  Never use a battery lift strap (you don't need to).

2.  A significantly-discharged Optima is best charged by wiring it in parallel with a decently charged other battery (same voltage of course) and charge the pair together until you get a decent (say, 6.1V) charge on the Optima.

 

Most of my cars' battery compartments are under the floor/seat, so the freedom from checking electrolyte level and cleaning corrosion is greatly appreciated.

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15 hours ago, carmover said:

...the engine runs great.Now for the sad part it still won't start with the starter.This is probably something simple  but at least I know the engine is not the problem.

Try hooking an ammeter up to the starter leads (a cheap inductive ammeter would probably do the trick).  See if it's actually drawing current when it's supposed to be cranking.

 

If the engine runs and the starter works on a bench test, process of elimination leads to wiring.

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Ok here is a summary of what is going on with the starter.The starter was checked by an authorized shop and it checked out perfectly with 6 volts to the start brush the starter spun the battery was also checked and load tested and came out fine both cables are getting good connections and on the car the start brush is getting a full 6 volts.Tonite a friend pushed the starter pedal down as I watched the starter brush and it is sitting squarely on the the commutator all other wires are tight and secure on the right post and everything electric on the car works.The starter shaft is pulling all the way back and letting the roller drop and the brush is in contact with the commutator.Everything has been checked and rechecked and still it will not even attempt to turn motor

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I would also suggest that you attach a volt meter to see what voltage the generator is putting out.  If it is more than about 7.3 +- for a 6 volt system that needs to be fixed.  About 14.2 +- for a 12 volt system unless the battery is really run down and the generator is trying to get it back to full charge.

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The battery is 100% charged and I put a meter on the start brush and it is getting a full 6 volts.I am going to try to get with Jason Smith tomorrow and see if he has any ideas or suggestions about this problem.

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I just reread the posts,  did the shop that did  the work check the armature with a growler to see that it didn't have some weak windings?  Leon

 

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Jason Smith totally rebuilt the start/gen less than 2 years ago which included a complete armature rewind and a new comutator and brushes a machined new roller and new bushings. the local shop bench tested it by placing jumper cables from my battery to the start/gen and we manually worked the brushes by raising and lowering the roller. they also tested voltage to the brushes and it spun like it was supposed to.Before i rebuilt the engine it was turning the motor like it should and all I did was put it on a shelf for about 5 months while getting the engine rebuilt.I then reinstalled the start/gen which is something that I am very experienced with and it has not started the engine.

Edited by carmover (see edit history)

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I have been following this but don't remember if you have tried taking the battery that may have been damaged but checks good out of the system completely and use a known good battery?

 

Dave

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