Roger Frazee Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 My 1917 Overland radiator was leaking slightly. It was also full of crud, so I decided to take it to a reputable radiator shop for a once-over. The shop called today and told me that there are several leaks in the core that can't be repaired. They said they would work up a price to build a new radiator core and get back with me. What are my options at this point? Is it even possible to get a square-pattern radiator core, or even a honeycomb core? How much can I expect to pay for a custom-built radiator core? Maybe I should reinstall the old unit, dump a can of stop-leak in it and hope for the best. At least, it would still be original. Any advice from people who have been down this road is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) Get your money out on this one! I searched and searched to find someone to recore/restore a 4".....staggered 5 row old dodge truck radiator....$1750.00!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited February 13, 2018 by c49er (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloo Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 You know, its a funny thing. Today, every core seems to be bad, doesn't it? They have had more years to rot. Maybe they are all just bad. It could happen, right? On the other hand, maybe it is easier to sell a core than to fix one. It may be time for a second opinion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Old cars are not for the faint of heart or wallet. Depending on the exact radiator and the type of replacement a good guesstimate would be between $1,000.00 to maybe $10,000.00. The radiator on my '15 truck kept leaking and I could not keep ahead of the cracking and leaking every time I went out on a drive. The brass was just too thin from 100 years of age and use. I finally bit the bullet and had to have a new core made to fix it. The tab was almost $2,500.00. Not cheap, but if the last one lasted 100 years, then this one will be good long after I am gone. I have not had a leak since the repair. Painful, but worth every penny in the long run when you drive your vehicle like we do. Stop leak generally will not work on an non pressurized system. Good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The most difficult lesson to learn in the antique car hobby is fix it right the first time, fix it once, and be done with it. Use a shop that only does antique cars and trucks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnseeker Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 (edited) I don't bother sending anything to the radiator shops around here. If they need to be cleaned I do the best I can myself. If they need to be repaired, find a specialist. Seems the shops around here do more damage cleaning the radiators than they do good. I do believe they often want to just sell you a new radiator as well. I had a tank that kept leaking in a seam. I took it back 3 times and finally gave up, then bought a new one. Now if I have tank issues, I resolder it myself. Cores, I pretty much figure on replacing the radiator. Edited February 13, 2018 by auburnseeker (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c49er Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 The old time full time "real" radiator guys are just about all gone. Most radiator shops are closed because of the EPA. . Radiator work today consists of replacing radiators with aluminum core and plastic tanks on the newer cars- not fixing them. More and more pretty import aluminum radiators ( fits close enough with room to drill more holes) are being sold for those who don't want to spend money and do it right with copper cores on the old cars.. Import after market aluminum radiators are not all that long lived unless excellent cooling system maintenance is performed and cannot not be repaired easily if rotten. Who will be around to fix them.. or even want to? But there are the the hard to find real service shops that can do extremely technical restoration of old radiators. They are the few and far between and have earned the right to charge the big $$$ for top notch work.. That's who I prefer to use.... do it once... do it right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings32 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I am doing a 1916 Overland in the shop now . Been going around for about a year, To redo with the orginal type core was over 8000 , we end up doing other type core hope to have it back this week[ HOPE ] kings32 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-mman Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) I had the Brassworks put a new honeycomb core in my 1929 Cadillac. I was told the honeycomb cores are made only in England. (by request?) It took 3-4 months and cost $2000 . . . . Yeah, it hurt but what else are you gonna do? I wasn't sure how good or bad the old one was, but I had rebuilt the engine (not cheap) and made everything else new, so I just did it. Maybe off topic but another skill that has disappeared is carburetor rebuilding. Carb kits for 1950s -1960s versions are still $20-$40. I have plenty of good cores I can build, but IF you try to buy one (rebuilt?) the sellers want $300-$500 minimum. I cant buy a Motorcraft 4 barrel CORE for less than $200. Old parts, needing old skills, that are quickly dying off. Edited February 14, 2018 by m-mman (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) Don’t know about the UK but a guy here in Australia makes them here using original machinery http://www.ftrs.com.au/ also has a price estimator Edited February 14, 2018 by hidden_hunter (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Frazee Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 11 hours ago, kings32 said: I am doing a 1916 Overland in the shop now . Been going around for about a year, To redo with the orginal type core was over 8000 , we end up doing other type core hope to have it back this week[ HOPE ] kings32 Kings32, after talking with my radiator guy yesterday and reviewing all of the options, I too decided to go with a less expensive non-original core. The car is a driver, not a show car. The next owners can put an original core back in if they decide to do so. I would be very interested to see pictures of the new core in the '16 Overland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kings32 Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I will take some pictures when I get it back from the shop. What model overland do you have , The one we are doing is a 75B roadster. You can PM me don't want to take over this thread King32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Frazee Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 1 hour ago, kings32 said: I will take some pictures when I get it back from the shop. What model overland do you have , The one we are doing is a 75B roadster. You can PM me don't want to take over this thread King32 My Overland is a Model 85-4 touring car. It was part of the "Big 4" line. I have attached a picture of the original radiator. Unfortunately, it's a leaker. While the radiator is being re-cored, I'm having the shell restored and a new emblem installed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durant Mike Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) I'm in that process now. The Brass Works has my radiator off my 1928 Durant. It's a honeycomb style, but officially called an "Auburn Style" Years ago I started to research about this type of radiator and it's correct that the cores come from England, the only place that really makes the cores anymore. I checked with a place in Maine, The Brass Works and a place in New Zealand and all get their core material from England. Not sure about the Australian place, but did watch a video a couple years ago about someone down there making them. It is expensive but if you want to be authentic then you need to go that way. Some people are having modern cores put in but leaving the honeycomb look on the outside. That's fine I guess but you not doing justice for future generations in documenting how these cars really were. I think it's better to save up and get the part done right, then take the cheap way out and not be authentic. Right now it looks like to have the radiator restored, get the shroud chromed and the emblem restored will be around $4,500. I don't like spending that kind of money either, but I feel I owe it to future generations to be able to see what a car really was like. Edited February 15, 2018 by Durant Mike (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I have radiator envy. The figures you people are talking for radiators seem pretty small compared to what goes here. It is most important to get the radiator to a shop that knows old radiators. I went through this last year. The first shop attempted to clean it assembled; it didn't work. So he took the top tank off (unwillingly) and cleaned it out. But he could not seal the top tank back on and told me I needed a new core. It is a tapered core and he was suggesting all sorts of daft things to get something that would work. Appearance was irrelevant. So I took it for a second opinion - he couldn't agree fast enough. The second shop had been doing radiators for 30 years. It turned out the first shop had a "new" owner of about 1 year tenure and he wasn't competent yet on old stuff. No wonder he didn't want to take the top tank off. The second shop took the tank off and fixed it. It turned out the first shop had also taken the filler neck off and "straightened" it; now it would not fit in the chrome surround with the radiator cap pointing forward! So I took it back to the second shop, with the surround, and he magicked it into the surround with the neck facing in the right direction. The motto of the story is to do your due diligence on the shop and who does the work before you take the radiator there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert b Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) Yes gentleman it is a sad fact that there some shops that have not had the experence in repairing these radiators and this is of course due to there not being a supply and demand for this work in the daily grind of a modern repair shop where replacement being the norm today . I some 30 plus years ago when i started in this trade ,( when it was a trade skill to learn) had the advantage of being interested in vintage cars and restoring them so a radiator repair then for my car was the thing to learn on ( and I made a lot of mistakes in this time ,and it cost me too) but having a good teacher ( the owner of the bussiness ) allowed one to learn what to do in these jobs ( we must expect that there are some that can not be repaired and must be replaced ) . to repair these radiators .The first thing that must be done is to clean them both inside and out , the most practicable method is to " boil them out " , in short into a hot tank for about 4 hours ,turning and flushing to remove the years of crud that they have accumuiated. When clean one can then asses the state or repair necessary and have a clean base to be able to solder to ( to solder the surface must be clean and bright and tinned for a bond to be successful ) . Even at this stage your looking at least two days work before the main repairs can begin . And than the repairs will be to the ability and experience of the tradesman , and this is hard as so few today have been taught this level of work , so when looking for a repairer one must ask questions about the repairer experience , and you will find that those can do this work fully understand your concern and some will show pics of previous work or contacts of there past customers jobs for to contact and review there opinions . I do this with out reservations of any , for these past customers are your testament to your standard of work, if your repairer is not willing to do this WALK AWAY NOW. When you have your repairer have him forward pics of the work progress (its easy now with the internett ) as this keeps you in the loop and aware of the work required to compleate the job . Dont be afraid to ask questions of things you dont understand as these radiators can be irreplaceable and in the wrong hands great damage can be done .The cost of having the correct core made can be some what great some times but one must weigh this against the cost of repairing a badly damaged engine due to a poor radiator and in many cases the radiator cost will be small in comparison to an engine rebuild . Do your home work ,ask fellow club members , ask questions of repairers and than you can make the right decisions that suit you . Regards R.J. Brims Edited February 16, 2018 by robert b (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Mike, what is the name of the shop in England that has the 'Auburn style' cores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durant Mike Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Curti, This is the guy I contacted a couple of years ago (http://www.vintagecarradiatorcompany.co.uk/) I'm not sure if it is still owned by the same person or if "the brass works" gets their cores from him. They didn't say. I contacted "The Brass Works" yesterday, for their cost to restore my 1928 Durant Fedders radiator. The core will come from England which will take about 12 weeks, since according to them the company in England is backed up right now. Once received they will get right on rebuilding my radiator. I told them I wanted it for AACA show and judging so I'm sure it will be done right. Price $2,500 which is not much difference than what I received a couple of years ago from them when I called. Now for the radiator shell nickel/chroming like I posted on another post on the forum. Prices I'm getting there is from $2,200 to $4,000. But like someone said prior, "what you going to do". If you want it nice and back the way it was original then you just have to save up and bite the bullet I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Thanks Mike, there was a radiator shop in the UK known as Vintage Wings, that I procured radiator cores from some years past. I wonder if they are one and the same. There is no substitute for doing it once and doing it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank29u Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Not to highjack, butt, Curti, is there anyone in the St Paul/Minneapolis area that does competent repairs? Friend has '29 Plymouth with radiator woes. Thanks, frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curti Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 1 hour ago, frank29u said: Not to highjack, butt, Curti, is there anyone in the St Paul/Minneapolis area that does competent repairs? Friend has '29 Plymouth with radiator woes. Thanks, frank Yes, Triangle Machine in Cannon Falls about 30 miles south of St Paul They do radiators and gas tanks on one side and engine work on the other. Triangle Automotive Machine 31685 65th Av Cannon Falls MN 55009 507-263-2464 Doug (boss) or Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank29u Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Thank you Curti for the info and to Roger for asking in the first place. frank 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I have a 26 Rover 9 with true honeycomb radiator woes - runs hot at idle, bottom half of core does not get hot, so I reckon its scaled up inside. The NZ company quoted me A$3200 for a new core + shipping. The above UK company vintagecarradiatorcompany quoted me A$1400 (GBP800) including boxing and shipping. Either way I would need a local professional to R&R the core into the radiator shell. Might have to do that if I cant get the scale out - trying again now. jp 26 Rover 9 https://imgur.com/a/eT4fq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) You could try air sparging from the bottom to loosen and remove blockages by particulate matter. I got some out of mine but not all of it (not patient enough?) You need a high volume air compressor. Connect the air and water to a connector you can put onto the radiator outlet and while the water is flowing up through the radiator, pulse some air in to stir things up. I had mine upside while I did this. I jury rigged some garden hose fittings to get the water in one side of a Y and the air into the other, using the air gun trigger to surge the air. There are tools made for this job, e.g. a Zootool. Edited February 18, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Interesting thought, thanks. Zootool only comes up on the web as software ? Problem with my radiator is that it seems the coolant is not forced through the core, but can easily run down the side tanks around the core, and back to the water pump, while the bottom half of the core sees no flow. I have got some debris out in this second run at descaling, but if the water can bypass the core, the air will be able to as well. Will see if I can cobble up a Y piece to allow water and air to be pushed through - have plenty of water pressure, but only a small air compressor. Will advise if I have any luck. thanks jp 26 Rover 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Here is a simple plastic one that would probably work. The text says: "MULTIPURPOSE CLEANING GUN Unique Vortex Air Delivery System One handed operation – with integrated air and water controls Enables quick and efficient Cooling System flushing Suits most radiator and heater hoses Also suitable for engine and floor wash applications Converts to Vacuum / Air Blow Gun" http://www.sidchrome.com.au/product/cooling-system-flush-gun/ This is the Zoo tool. The photo was sent to me by @ArticiferTom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gossjh Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 I have used Bill's Antique Radiator Restorations in Chillicothe, IL. His primary business is making full restoration and recreations of brass era radiators, but they also do newer radiators. I have had Dan ( the son, as Bill has passed) do complete rebuild of cell type radiator. I also had a square tube core that had plugged up tight, after I foolishly used stop leak on it. His initial price was too much for a car I needed to be excellent serviceable condition, but was going to tour and not show. So he gave me several options for a non authentic radiator that gave me good service, but cost much less. I did not choose it, but one option was to make a slice of the original about a half inch thick and build it into a dummy front to make the new core appear as the old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp928 Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Thanks for the Zoo tool link, will look that up! jp 26 Rover 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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