1963 Speedo cable

[telriv]

I both agree & dis-agree with Dave's statement about drilling a hole.  This could both be a savior or a cause for disaster. You most be ABSOLUTELY SURE the trans. is vented PROPERLY 1st. Hot oil climbing up the tube & out the hole could cause a FIRE. Hot  trans. fluid hitting a HOT exhaust manifold gets pretty explosive, so USE CAUTION!!! 

Remember the old KISS principal, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. It's amazing how many things can be fixed fairly easily BEFORE taking the big plunge!!

 

Again, just my dimes worth.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

[retiredmechanic74]

On 4/21/2018 at 1:37 PM, telriv said:

I both agree & dis-agree with Dave's statement about drilling a hole.  This could both be a savior or a cause for disaster. You most be ABSOLUTELY SURE the trans. is vented PROPERLY 1st. Hot oil climbing up the tube & out the hole could cause a FIRE. Hot  trans. fluid hitting a HOT exhaust manifold gets pretty explosive, so USE CAUTION!!! 

Remember the old KISS principal, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. It's amazing how many things can be fixed fairly easily BEFORE taking the big plunge!!

 

Again, just my dimes worth.

 

 

Tom T.

 

 

 

Tom I have to disagree (in a friendly way) that there would be no danger of the fluid rising that far up the tube unless the trans was grossly overfilled and if the trans vent was completely plugged it would more then likely pop the dipstick out of the tube and spill fluid anyway, by drilling a hole in the tube below the seal of the dipstick insures pressure will not build up and properly filled will keep the fluid from rising that far up. I've done this procedure many times and have never had any adverse effect.

[telriv]

When a DynaFlow starts to go bad it DOES push fluid up & out the tube pushing up the dipstick in the process. AND, the vent is clear.

[Turbinator]

On 2/20/2018 at 8:43 AM, retiredmechanic74 said:

There are only two fluids I know of that can leak from the dash. (1) Oil Gage pipe leaking from a mechanical Gage. and (2) The speedo cable and I think that is where it is coming from. The gear in the transmission is allowing the fluid to travel up the cable. If you look at the cable you can see that the cable is made by twisting the metal. This is done to pull some fluid up from the trans to keep the cable lubed ( the idea wasn't a very good one) I would suggest to change the cable and case and the seal in the gear housing. You can get a new cable and case (that way you get the correct length) . Buying just the cable can give you problems with getting it right because the tip that goes into the speedo head has to be crimped and all to often doesn't hold. If you want to just change the cable it has to come out from the speedo head not from the trans.

Dave, I was able to determine the PO put the gray seal on the wrong side of the speedo gear shaft. Having the seal not where it is suppose to be could have been the problem. The cogs on the gear totaled 19. Five (5) of the cogs were worn badly. I found the 19 cog speedo gear shaft with the seals, washer, and O ring included. The speedometer itself I believe to be just fine. I bought a new cable and casing as a precaution. 

Im going to clean the inside of the casing with Berkible Gum Cutter then grease the cable. I guess, while I have the thing out I might as well put in the new one. Here is what I learned:

1. Put the transmission in reverse somcan reach stuff.

2. The support under the transmission really holds the transmission! No need to remove.

3. The vent is a little pipe that trails on the back of the transmission. If you blow compressed air through vent you’ll push a whole lot of fluid up through auto trans dip stick. No need to do that

4.Recognized after investigation the PO did not have the retainer in the groove that holds part of the speedo assembly in the transmission in the right place.

5. If you can assess the PROPER tool to use to reach Hard to reach nots, bolts, and screws life is easier.

your help along the way made me realize somethings are not so hard once you experience the work. Still, my mechanical skills in down right simple fix it jobs always can improve.

[Turbinator]

Speedometer field test after new speedo gear drive with proper seals, etc. worked great. Speedometer is much more accurate now.

R3d Riviera Bob

 

06/07/18 Tested speedometer in my 63 Riviera with a iPhone app.known as SpeedLimitFree. My speedo is 6 mph fast on lower speeds and 10-12 mph fast on the real high end of the speedometer. The drive gear did not fix the accuracy of the speedometer.

 Red Riviera Bob

Edited June 11, 2018 by Red Riviera Bob
add information pertinent to speed accuracy (see edit history)

[RivNut]

5 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Speedometer field test after new speedo gear drive with proper seals, etc. worked great. Speedometer is much more accurate now.

R3d Riviera Bob

What was your "field test."

[telriv]

I would imagian/assume he DROVE the vehicle.

[RivNut]

I was wondering if he was using a stop watch, being followed, or what to tell him his speedo was "much more accurate."

[Turbinator]

Gents, my field test regarding my speedometer was a result of driving the car in 30 mph residential areas and interstate high way speed. I determined the speedo was fine because I did not get any black fluid on my shoe while I drove the car. The speedometer was steady and s e e m e d accurate based on comparison with other vehicles in traffic AND I’ve driven many types of vehicles on public roads for the last 53 years. Now, I’m happy to be wrong, but at this point I’m satisfied with the speed showing on the speedometer. I’ll check with a scientific method in another few days. Thank you for your help.

Red Riviera Bob

[RivNut]

3600 ÷ # seconds it takes you to drive a measured mile (DO NOT use your odometer) like the mile markers on an interstate highway will give you mph.

 

e.g.  3600 ÷ 60 = 60

         3600 ÷ 60 seconds = 60 mph.

 

3600 ÷ 48 seconds = 75 mph 

 

3600  ÷ 80 seconds = 45 mph

 

etc, etc.

 

Or, if you have one, you have one you can compare your speedo to the speedo on your GPS unit.

 

I can't trust the other drivers on the highway to observe the speed limit.  Too many soccer moms either texting while driving 40 in a 70, or driving 80 and talking on their cell phones.  I'm always tickled at the number of them who think their Honda Passport is a 1/4 mile terror.

[steelman]

You can also check for a speedometer app for your phone. There are several out there. these use GPS and are very accurate.

[Turbinator]

On 5/3/2018 at 4:45 PM, steelman said:

You can also check for a speedometer app for your phone. There are several out there. these use GPS and are very accurate.

Steve, I’ll get a ‘shot gun” man to handle the app on my cell phone measuring speed. Way way too many vehicles up here and not enough road to not pay attention 100% of the time to my driving. I think I’m good driver mostly because I drive in a  defensive mode. There are crazy drivers in the DC /Baltimore corridor.

[Turbinator]

On 2/20/2018 at 11:43 AM, offdensen said:

I have the dynaflow in my 63, only reason I put a 18 tooth in was because that is what was in there originally. Is there something else that could cause the Speedo to move too fast? Maybe the Speedo lost tension? I will try looking into the hole next time i have it on the lift. 

Sir, don’t know where you ended up on your speedo with the 18 tooth. When I took my speedo gear drive/drive gear out I counted 19 teeth. Now that could be very well wrong. My rear end had a 07 stamped on the bottom. Now I put in a 19tooth and my speedo cable stopped,leaking. Is my speedo accurate? I’m just not quite sure a 100%, but close.

[offdensen]

On 5/13/2018 at 11:15 AM, Red Riviera Bob said:

Sir, don’t know where you ended up on your speedo with the 18 tooth. When I took my speedo gear drive/drive gear out I counted 19 teeth. Now that could be very well wrong. My rear end had a 07 stamped on the bottom. Now I put in a 19tooth and my speedo cable stopped,leaking. Is my speedo accurate? I’m just not quite sure a 100%, but close.

I did some calculations, my Speedo is 23-27% faster than what is shown on my GPS at higher speeds. So above 40mph it's innacuracy becomes more apparent but I have become used to it. Lower sppeds the accuracy is spot on.

 I know how fast I am going based on what the gauge says at this point, but an accurate gauge would be great to have so people in the car with me stop thinking I'm going near or over 100mph all the time.

 

On the other hand, if I keep it like this it's like it is measuring kmh instead of mph

Edited May 25, 2018 by offdensen (see edit history)

[Turbinator]

Sir, I truly understand the speedo accuracy. I believe we are in the same situation. 

Thank you for your reply.

Red Rivieda Bob

[Turbinator]

On 5/3/2018 at 2:29 PM, RivNut said:

3600 ÷ # seconds it takes you to drive a measured mile (DO NOT use your odometer) like the mile markers on an interstate highway will give you mph.

 

e.g.  3600 ÷ 60 = 60

         3600 ÷ 60 seconds = 60 mph.

 

3600 ÷ 48 seconds = 75 mph 

 

3600  ÷ 80 seconds = 45 mph

 

etc, etc.

 

Or, if you have one, you have one you can compare your speedo to the speedo on your GPS unit.

 

I can't trust the other drivers on the highway to observe the speed limit.  Too many soccer moms either texting while driving 40 in a 70, or driving 80 and talking on their cell phones.  I'm always tickled at the number of them who think their Honda Passport is a 1/4 mile terror.

Ed, I’m with you on that one. As an aside, we have a 2017 KIA Oprima SXL Turbo 4 cylinder engine. The KIA has plenty of pick up for me!

i downloaded an app  on my iPhone to test my speedometer. I need a helper to use the app while I drive. I will amend my statement regarding accuracy of my speedometer. It seems at higher speeds the speedometer is measurably in accurate. Stay tuned for more.

Red  Riviera Bob

[Turbinator]

On 5/25/2018 at 4:11 PM, offdensen said:

I did some calculations, my Speedo is 23-27% faster than what is shown on my GPS at higher speeds. So above 40mph it's innacuracy becomes more apparent but I have become used to it. Lower sppeds the accuracy is spot on.

 I know how fast I am going based on what the gauge says at this point, but an accurate gauge would be great to have so people in the car with me stop thinking I'm going near or over 100mph all the time.

 

On the other hand, if I keep it like this it's like it is measuring kmh instead of mph

I’m with you on the higher speed AND lower speeds. I have to check my speedo with an app I download3d on my iPhone. I catch up with new info.

Red Riviera Bob

[Turbinator]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:22 AM, RivNut said:

What was your "field test."

Ed, 06/07/18 Tested speedometer in my 63 Riviera with a iPhone app.known as SpeedLimitFree. My speedo is 6 mph fast on lower speeds and 10-12 mph fast on the real high end of the speedometer. The drive gear did not fix the accuracy of the speedometer.
 Red Riviera Bob

[RivNut]

Are the different speeds off by the same percentage?  If so, then a different gear will probably fix the problem.  If not, like my car which is 4 mph slow at all speeds, then different gears won't help.

[Turbinator]

8 hours ago, RivNut said:

Are the different speeds off by the same percentage?  If so, then a different gear will probably fix the problem.  If not, like my car which is 4 mph slow at all speeds, then different gears won't help.

Ed, I spent a long time tracking down the wrong speedo drive gear in GM parts book. I put in a 19th tooth drive gear AND no more black fluid dripping on my left foot. The seller of the 19 tooth charged $85.00 for the supposed application gear drive. The speedometer speed indicator is going to stay wrong.??

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Ed, I spent a long time tracking down the wrong speedo drive gear in GM parts book. I put in a 19th tooth drive gear AND no more black fluid dripping on my left foot. The seller of the 19 tooth charged $85.00 for the supposed application gear drive. The speedometer speed indicator is going to stay wrong.??

 

Did you check to see if you had a 3.07 or 3.23 rear gear before looking for the gear?

[Turbinator]

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

 

Did you check to see if you had a 3.07 or 3.23 rear gear before looking for the gear?

 

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

 

Did you check to see if you had a 3.07 or 3.23 rear gear before looking for the gear?

Ed, I checked it and I read 07. Another good ROA member said that meant the rear end was 3.07.

As usual I already ordered the 19 tooth drive gear not knowing the size rear end dictated how many teeth the speedo drive gear should have. If, memory serves me the 3.07 rear end requires a 19 tooth speedo drive gear. Still, I could have made an error.

After it took me two lifetimes to figure out how to get my hands around the speedo drive gear gear the change out and install went fast.

Red Riviera Bob

[Turbinator]

On 6/11/2018 at 10:14 AM, RivNut said:

Are the different speeds off by the same percentage?  If so, then a different gear will probably fix the problem.  If not, like my car which is 4 mph slow at all speeds, then different gears won't help.

Ed, Ill drive and check again. Telriv, told me it needed a 17 tooth. The Buick parts book indicated 19 tooth drive gear. Having taken the bad speedo drive gear out and installed the new gear correctly another speedo gear drive would go easier. I described another replacement gear drive installation as an easier exercise not an easy exercise. Again, thank you for your support in my efforts to "get it right".

Red Riviera Bob

[telriv]

You need a 20 tooth gear Bob.

[Turbinator]

On 6/11/2018 at 10:14 AM, RivNut said:

Are the different speeds off by the same percentage?  If so, then a different gear will probably fix the problem.  If not, like my car which is 4 mph slow at all speeds, then different gears won't help.

Yes, the percentage is 6-7% fast on low to mid range speeds and mid low are yôuñc 

[RivNut]

I guess the question now is:  On the cable end, are all driven gears for 1963 the same?  Or did you have to match a drive gear with a given gear to get your speedometer / odometer to read correctly.  

[Turbinator]

Gents, having struggled with the speedo cable installation on my 63 Riviera I finally got the job finished. An eighteen tooth drive gear was put in and the speed worked good, but it was 10 mph fast. In addition, the odometer was reading 2 tenths more for every mile. Tom Telesco ( Telriv ) along with others on the forum helped me with the accuracy problem. Tom said go to  Gilmore-Global Instruments Co. Inc. Houston Texas and tell them your problem and Gilmore will make an adapter to fix the inaccuracy. Gilmore-Global delivered the adapter and I put in on the car. I tested the accuracy with my iPhone app  and both the app and the speedometer coincided.

Edited January 3, 2019 by Turbinator (see edit history)

[telriv]

Glad it worked out for you Bob.

 

Tom T.

[Turbinator]

3 hours ago, telriv said:

Glad it worked out for you Bob.

 

Tom T.

Tom, finally. And thanks for the help!

Now for the AC JOB to start, again.

Turbinator

[telriv]

AGAIN/AGAIN/AGAIN/AGAIN   Never an end. Have you learned anything yet???

Looking for a box large enough to ship those parts.

 

Tom T.

 

 

[Turbinator]

On 2/17/2018 at 8:38 AM, Zimm63 said:

Interesting thread as my speedo dances around, especially when the car is first driven.

 

What/how is the best way to change out the cable?  I have a new cable, but not the casing.  Can/should I take it off the transmission, pull the cable out, lube the new one going back it?  Or, do I need to get behind the dash and take it off at the speedometer?

 

Advice is always welcome.  Sun is shining here, roads are dry, and I think all my lights are working.  Riv will get a run this morning.

 

 

Zimm, did you get the speedo quieted down?

Turbinator

[Turbinator]

On 6/11/2018 at 8:26 PM, RivNut said:

 

Did you check to see if you had a 3.07 or 3.23 rear gear before looking for the gear?

3.07 , well actually the only thing stamped on the rear is 07.

[RivNut]

Next time you look at the stapling on the bottom of the axle, look to see if the numbers aren't stacked.  The 3.07under my '64 is stamped like this:

 

     3

   07

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history)

[Zimm63]

9 hours ago, Turbinator said:

Zimm, did you get the speedo quieted down?

Turbinator

Not yet.  Its one of the things I want to do while waiting for the center bearing mount to come back.  2-3 weeks turn around.  I'm a litttle leery of pulling the dash cover in the cold too.  Need to think about that.  

[Turbinator]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:16 PM, RivNut said:

Next time you look at the stapling on the bottom of the axle, look to see if the numbers aren't stacked.  The 3.07under my '64 is stamped like this:

 

     3

   07

 

 

 

Most of us, at least where I was taught numbers are written one after the other. Sometimes a decimal point that is required would help if it was placed between the numbers where it is suppose to go.

[Turbinator]

On 1/9/2019 at 8:56 AM, Zimm63 said:

Not yet.  Its one of the things I want to do while waiting for the center bearing mount to come back.  2-3 weeks turn around.  I'm a litttle leery of pulling the dash cover in the cold too.  Need to think about that.  

 

On 1/9/2019 at 8:56 AM, Zimm63 said:

Not yet.  Its one of the things I want to do while waiting for the center bearing mount to come back.  2-3 weeks turn around.  I'm a litttle leery of pulling the dash cover in the cold too.  Need to think about that.  

Zimm, no need to be Leary. I was not keen on pulling my dash out for repair. I got another to help pull it out. No big deal.

BUT, no need to pull dash for speedo work. I did not pull out the dash for speedo work.

[Zimm63]

On 1/10/2019 at 5:45 PM, Turbinator said:

 

Zimm, no need to be Leary. I was not keen on pulling my dash out for repair. I got another to help pull it out. No big deal.

BUT, no need to pull dash for speedo work. I did not pull out the dash for speedo work.

I will admit to not looking into this yet.  Can you pull the cable off the back from the bottom, or by pulling it out the front of the dash?

 

[Turbinator]

7 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

I will admit to not looking into this yet.  Can you pull the cable off the back from the bottom, or by pulling it out the front of the dash?

 

Zimm, I was guided to unloose and disconnect the cable from the transmission. Pull the cable through the casing from behind the speedometer in the dash. Zimm I had a hard time getting the replacement cable to fit. The sellers say they heir cable will fit and the cable is long enough but you have to cut the cable to fit and not unravel. 

Narrow down what needs to be fixed before you pull out the cable.

Only but a suggestion based on past experience. You might not need a cable but your driven gear could be worn. Find out what others say what makes it jump. Go from there.

Turbinator

27 degrees up here. At least it is not raining.