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1963 Speedo cable


offdensen

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I need a new Speedo cable for my 63, was looking at rock auto and was wondering if it was the right length and if anyone has experience with them? Also what lube do you all use? I pulled mine out and it was really dark, looked like grease but that seems a bit thick. Please be specific with the lube part, really want to get that part right. 

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Is the old one broken or just gummed up?  If it's just gummy, use some brake kleen to remove the old grease, then use powered graphite to lube it once everything is clean. Meazure your old one and call Rock Auto to find the length of tbe new one.  You can probably use one thats a little longer without a problem.

 

Ed

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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26 minutes ago, offdensen said:

Old one is broken. And graphite, like for door locks? They have stuff like this at the ace hardware down the street from me. https://m.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=53384466

 

Comes in a tube, or spray can. 

Powered usually comes in a tube like antibiotic cream.  You squeeze it and it puffs out of the tube.  When you get the new one pull the cable from the sheath and see how or if it's lived.   If not, "puff" some powder into the sheath then reinsert the cable. You want to use a dry lubricant.  If you use a wet one, it will gather dust and dirt and eventually gum up again.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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If you try to coat the cable, you'll have almost all of the powder on the garage floor.  Squirt some in the sheath, and insert the cable. Pull the cable back out and see if there are any uncoated places. Repeat.  Slide the cable in and out until everything glides easily.  I would imagine that you can get too much in the sheath.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)
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In my shop I've always used a tube of engine assembly grease to grease the cables after cleaning them thoroughly. Never had to go back in

and fix it again ever. My  GTO speedo cable was lubed this way 40 years ago....still works great with no noise. The original lube failed at 8 years

of age. Engine assembly lube is available at any auto parts store.....it has moly- graphite in it.

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7 minutes ago, offdensen said:

@Jolly_John

Curious if the tube says what the lube is made of? Obviously that stuff works, or else our rivs wouldn't have working speedos from the get go. I will try the graphite first since i already have it and see how it works. Getting the cable in the mail today. 

Well over the past 50+ years, we've learned that eventually the original lube will gum up.  The good thing about it is that we'll probably not be around when these cars are 100 years old so we'll never see it gum up again.

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Interesting thread as my speedo dances around, especially when the car is first driven.

 

What/how is the best way to change out the cable?  I have a new cable, but not the casing.  Can/should I take it off the transmission, pull the cable out, lube the new one going back it?  Or, do I need to get behind the dash and take it off at the speedometer?

 

Advice is always welcome.  Sun is shining here, roads are dry, and I think all my lights are working.  Riv will get a run this morning.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

Interesting thread as my speedo dances around, especially when the car is first driven.

 

What/how is the best way to change out the cable?  I have a new cable, but not the casing.  Can/should I take it off the transmission, pull the cable out, lube the new one going back it?  Or, do I need to get behind the dash and take it off at the speedometer?

 

Advice is always welcome.  Sun is shining here, roads are dry, and I think all my lights are working.  Riv will get a run this morning.

 

 

What you're describing is at least worth a try.

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On ‎2‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 9:36 AM, offdensen said:

@Jolly_John

Curious if the tube says what the lube is made of? Obviously that stuff works, or else our rivs wouldn't have working speedos from the get go. I will try the graphite first since i already have it and see how it works. Getting the cable in the mail today. 

 

There's no mention on the tube or the box, as to what kind of grease is inside this NOS tube of genuine AC Speedometer Lube. I don't know if it was some kind of proprietary AC formula or not. I recently removed the metal screw-on cap to see what the grease was like. It appears to be in good condition (no oil separation or hardening), even thought I'm pretty sure this is a 1960's-vintage product. John

Edited by Jolly_John (see edit history)
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11 hours ago, Zimm63 said:

Interesting thread as my speedo dances around, especially when the car is first driven.

 

What/how is the best way to change out the cable?  I have a new cable, but not the casing.  Can/should I take it off the transmission, pull the cable out, lube the new one going back it?  Or, do I need to get behind the dash and take it off at the speedometer?

 

Advice is always welcome.  Sun is shining here, roads are dry, and I think all my lights are working.  Riv will get a run this morning.

 

 

 

Pull the cable, hold one end between your thumb and index finger, then roll it back and forth.  If it "flops", it's kinked -- and that kink will make the speedometer bounce.  Good cable or not, lube it up and reinstall.

 

A bouncing speedo is a minor annoyance by itself, but it's a real PITA if you're trying to use cruise control.

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On 2/17/2018 at 4:42 PM, telriv said:

I ALWAYS use Kendall Super Blue. Maintains consistency, NEVER hardens, 10 yrs. from now will be the same. Been using for 25+ yrs.

Tom, Red Riviera Bob,here with a question regarding a 63 Buick Riviera leaking black fluid on the driver side floor mat.

would you speculate how I might stop the leakage. The speedometer cable is quiet, but about 5% fast.

Any ideas on how to stop the leak?

thank you

Bob Burnopp ( aka Red Riviera Bob)

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20 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Tom, Red Riviera Bob,here with a question regarding a 63 Buick Riviera leaking black fluid on the driver side floor mat.

would you speculate how I might stop the leakage. The speedometer cable is quiet, but about 5% fast.

Any ideas on how to stop the leak?

thank you

Bob Burnopp ( aka Red Riviera Bob)

Have you been able to identify what kind of "fluid" it is?  That would help.  

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There are only two fluids I know of that can leak from the dash. (1) Oil Gage pipe leaking from a mechanical Gage. and (2) The speedo cable and I think that is where it is coming from. The gear in the transmission is allowing the fluid to travel up the cable. If you look at the cable you can see that the cable is made by twisting the metal. This is done to pull some fluid up from the trans to keep the cable lubed ( the idea wasn't a very good one) I would suggest to change the cable and case and the seal in the gear housing. You can get a new cable and case (that way you get the correct length) . Buying just the cable can give you problems with getting it right because the tip that goes into the speedo head has to be crimped and all to often doesn't hold. If you want to just change the cable it has to come out from the speedo head not from the trans.

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Speedo works again. Cable seems to move pretty freely but is really fast. Might need a different gear head with more teeth. Anyone have an equation or something for figuring this out? I'm working with 18 teeth and the Speedo reads 45mph at 40mph, but 80mph at 65mph. I brought it up to 80mph and the gauge read 120mph. As much as I'd like to scare passengers with my innacurate gauge I would prefer a accurate reading. 

 

On the topic of leaking from behind the dash, I would imagine that graphite powder can't leak, so that might be a good upside to using it. 

 

Edited by offdensen (see edit history)
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I had to do this about a month ago for the Turbo 350 in a friends 54 Chevy. There are two gears. The smaller drive gear where the cable hooks in and the larger driven gear in the transmission. We ended up changing the driven gear inside the transmission from nine tooth to an eight to make his read correctly. But of course, this was not the original transmission to the car. Here is the formula. You have to know rear axle ratio (or at least close), tire diameter, gear teeth and RPM at 60 MPH. Not sure about the Dynaflow, but in 350s and 400s, gears are colored. Each gear, drive and driven, have their own color based on number of teeth. See what is available and substitute into the formula until you find something close. Check Ebay for gear availability and number of teeth. You may not get it exact, but you can get really close.

http://www.monstertransmission.com/Speedometer-Gear-Calculator_ep_122-1.html

Edited by steelman (see edit history)
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Here is another one that is easier to use, but you must know the number of teeth on the driven gear inside the transmission. Again, these are colored, so remove the drive gear and look in the hole with a flashlight to see the color of the driven gear. Once you know the color, you can determine how many teeth are on that gear and use this formula.

http://www.moveras.com/Support/Tools/SpeedometerDriveGearCalculator.aspx

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I have the dynaflow in my 63, only reason I put a 18 tooth in was because that is what was in there originally. Is there something else that could cause the Speedo to move too fast? Maybe the Speedo lost tension? I will try looking into the hole next time i have it on the lift. 

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12 hours ago, RivNut said:

Have you been able to identify what kind of "fluid" it is?  That would help.  

 

8 hours ago, steelman said:

Here is another one that is easier to use, but you must know the number of teeth on the driven gear inside the transmission. Again, these are colored, so remove the drive gear and look in the hole with a flashlight to see the color of the driven gear. Once you know the color, you can determine how many teeth are on that gear and use this formula.

http://www.moveras.com/Support/Tools/SpeedometerDriveGearCalculator.aspx

 

23 hours ago, telriv said:

Any idea where it may be coming from Bob???

Sorry gents: you all are good, but not mind readers. My apologies. The black fluid drips from under the dash on the driver’s side. The fluid hits my left foot while seated on the driver’s seat on the flat part of rubber floor mat.

thank you

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11 hours ago, retiredmechanic74 said:

There are only two fluids I know of that can leak from the dash. (1) Oil Gage pipe leaking from a mechanical Gage. and (2) The speedo cable and I think that is where it is coming from. The gear in the transmission is allowing the fluid to travel up the cable. If you look at the cable you can see that the cable is made by twisting the metal. This is done to pull some fluid up from the trans to keep the cable lubed ( the idea wasn't a very good one) I would suggest to change the cable and case and the seal in the gear housing. You can get a new cable and case (that way you get the correct length) . Buying just the cable can give you problems with getting it right because the tip that goes into the speedo head has to be crimped and all to often doesn't hold. If you want to just change the cable it has to come out from the speedo head not from the trans.

I believe I know the spiral wrapped speedometer cable you are writing about. Seems to me the best thing to do is replace the speedo cable with casing all in one. This assuming the fluid that is leaking is from the Speedo cable. Maybe I erred I’m not mentioning the fluid that is leaking is black as India ink.

thank you

Red Riviera Bob

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10 minutes ago, RivNut said:

Have you stuck your finger in it and smelled it or felt it?  Any way to identify it other than "black fluid?"

I knew that was coming when I looked at I said smell it, but I did not. The car is in the shop getting some other stuff fixed. When I get it back I’ll crawl under and do a better investigation of what the fluid might be.

thanks again

Red Riviera Bob

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

I believe I know the spiral wrapped speedometer cable you are writing about. Seems to me the best thing to do is replace the speedo cable with casing all in one. This assuming the fluid that is leaking is from the Speedo cable. Maybe I erred I’m not mentioning the fluid that is leaking is black as India ink.

thank you

Red Riviera Bob

The black fluid is probably dirty cable grease or trans fluid. 

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22 hours ago, retiredmechanic74 said:

The black fluid is probably dirty cable grease or trans fluid. 

 

22 hours ago, retiredmechanic74 said:

The black fluid is probably dirty cable grease or trans fluid. 

I have a choice between a used original speedo cable or buy an after market cable from CARS LLC.

The cost is small. I believe a used cable with good appearance and solid connections is a safe choice. Also, I know the seller of the part.

thank you for your helP Red Riviera Bob

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/20/2018 at 9:08 PM, retiredmechanic74 said:

The black fluid is probably dirty cable grease or trans fluid. 

Mr. RetiredMechanic74, you are right the speedo cable casing is leaking. I loosened the knurl knob on the back the speedo. I pulled on the casing, but the casing would not budge. The crimped piece at the end of the speedo casing does that loosen? If it is crimped it is not suppose to loosen. How do you get the complete cable and casing disconnected from the speedometer? I just hate braking stuff and making matters worse when a dumb question could solve the mystery.

thank youRed Riviera Bob

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On 2/20/2018 at 8:04 AM, RivNut said:

Have you been able to identify what kind of "fluid" it is?  That would help.  

Ed, the liquid is quite runny. The liquid is coming from the casing. I wonder what would make the casing leak fluid? Obviously, a leaky casing. So, I’ll find a cable and casing the right length and install the whole thing. Are there any gaskets or seals that are needed to replace the old ones? Might as well get the whole kit at one time.

Red Riviera Bob

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2 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Ed, the liquid is quite runny. The liquid is coming from the casing. I wonder what would make the casing leak fluid? Obviously, a leaky casing. So, I’ll find a cable and casing the right length and install the whole thing. Are there any gaskets or seals that are needed to replace the old ones? Might as well get the whole kit at one time.

Red Riviera Bob

I bought a new cable and the box contained only the cable assembly. No lubricants or gaskets.  Go back an re-read this thread and decide if you want to lube a new cable and if so, what the best lubricant is.  I'm still a fan of powered graphite (it's not liquid and therefore can't leak.?)

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14 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Mr. RetiredMechanic74, you are right the speedo cable casing is leaking. I loosened the knurl knob on the back the speedo. I pulled on the casing, but the casing would not budge. The crimped piece at the end of the speedo casing does that loosen? If it is crimped it is not suppose to loosen. How do you get the complete cable and casing disconnected from the speedometer? I just hate braking stuff and making matters worse when a dumb question could solve the mystery.

thank youRed Riviera Bob

+Bob I would suggest that you disconnect the cable and case from the trans first and any reference points holding the cable and case (this will allow you to pull the cable and case out)  then work on removing the speedometer at least enough to gain access to were the cable and case is held to the speedometer this way you can gently twist the case back and forth to remove it. Feed the new cable and case in and hook it to the trans last. Also remove the drive assembly from the trans, remove the plastic gear and replace the O ring and the housing O ring.

Edited by retiredmechanic74
More information. (see edit history)
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On 4/18/2018 at 11:30 PM, RivNut said:

I bought a new cable and the box contained only the cable assembly. No lubricants or gaskets.  Go back an re-read this thread and decide if you want to lube a new cable and if so, what the best lubricant is.  I'm still a fan of powered graphite (it's not liquid and therefore can't leak.?)

Ed, I use powdered graphite in the guitar nut slots so the strings don’t bind. If, I do not have graphite in a tube I use pencil lead on the nut slots.

RRB

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On 4/19/2018 at 8:57 AM, retiredmechanic74 said:

+Bob I would suggest that you disconnect the cable and case from the trans first and any reference points holding the cable and case (this will allow you to pull the cable and case out)  then work on removing the speedometer at least enough to gain access to were the cable and case is held to the speedometer this way you can gently twist the case back and forth to remove it. Feed the new cable and case in and hook it to the trans last. Also remove the drive assembly from the trans, remove the plastic gear and replace the O ring and the housing O ring.

Sir, I got lucky and purchased an AC. Delco NOS speedometer cable by part number. I will receive the cable in another day or two. In the meantime, I put the car on a lift and removed the speedo cable for seal inspection. ( the cross member under the transmission r e a l l y does support the transmission.! ) The seal looks good to me. Also, I’m trying to find the vent on the transmission. I have been told and I read a clogged vent can cause the casing to leak. The speedometer does not make noise and keeps fairly reasonable speed. What is causing the cable to leak on the speedometer end? I have not taken the transmission down to inspect gears and O rings and whatever inside the transmission. It seems to replace the cable without finding out what could cause the leak might be not the solution we need.

My guess is I have to take the transmission down?

RRB

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5 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Sir, I got lucky and purchased an AC. Delco NOS speedometer cable by part number. I will receive the cable in another day or two. In the meantime, I put the car on a lift and removed the speedo cable for seal inspection. ( the cross member under the transmission r e a l l y does support the transmission.! ) The seal looks good to me. Also, I’m trying to find the vent on the transmission. I have been told and I read a clogged vent can cause the casing to leak. The speedometer does not make noise and keeps fairly reasonable speed. What is causing the cable to leak on the speedometer end? I have not taken the transmission down to inspect gears and O rings and whatever inside the transmission. It seems to replace the cable without finding out what could cause the leak might be not the solution we need.

My guess is I have to take the transmission down?

RRB

Digging into my memory (which is vastly fading) The vent should be locaded on top of the passenger side of the trans and could very well cause fluid to clime up the cable but other problems would also be present such as other external leaks and over filling. I think pulling the trans for this problem would only be a waist of your time. What I would suggest is to drill a 1/8th hole in the filler tube just below the seal on the dipstick ( it will help the trans to breathe). Back in those years GM thought it wise to counterclockwise the winding of the cable to draw fluid up the cable to keep it lubed (wasn't a good idea) an aftermarket cable and case might be a better way to go.  Hope this helps.   A friend Dave.    

Edited by retiredmechanic74 (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, retiredmechanic74 said:

Digging into my memory (which is vastly fading) The vent should be locaded on top of the passenger side of the trans and could very well cause fluid to clime up the cable but other problems would also be present such as other external leaks and over filling. I think pulling the trans for this problem would only be a waist of your time. What I would suggest is to drill a 1/8th hole in the filler tube just below the seal on the dipstick ( it will help the trans to breathe). Back in those years GM thought it wise to counterclockwise the winding of the cable to draw fluid up the cable to keep it lubed (wasn't a good idea) an aftermarket cable and case might be a better way to go.  Hope this helps.   A friend Dave.    

Dave, again thank you. Over filling just may be the problem and worth checking out. In an early attempt to change the transmission fluid I may very well over filled. ( my earlier maintenance effort could be the problem) I’ll see if I can find the vent with the service and parts manuals zi have for the Riviera to point out the vent. It is close quarters in that tunnel and dirty. The 1/8” hole below the transmission fluid dip stick seal makes plenty of sense. Replacing the casing and cable does make sense since I bought a NOS replacement. ( Is NOS OEM parts? I thought aftermarket was a part that will fit, but not OEM specifications). Dave, I’ll keep you updated.

Bob

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