Wheelmang

How far should I go with this engine

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Most excellent. A valve job is a great plan. Fun too!  Keep the updates coming. We enjoy them and are here to support you if needsd. 

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Got ready to wire wheel the block and found a great way to keep the dirt out of the cylinders. About an inch and a half cut off the bottom add the lids and sealed it up great. 

Dirt out 1.JPG

Dirt out.JPG

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10 hours ago, Wheelmang said:

 I am not quite sure what to look for here. Are the head and the stem two separate pieces?

What nearchoclatetown is referring two is that some original valves had a cast iron head with a steel rod screwed into it.

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9 minutes ago, platt-deutsch said:

Might be a good idea to polish and oil the theads on the headbolt studs so they torque up right.

 

Careful with oiled threads. The recommended torques are several lb.ft less with lubricated threads .....not that there are any recommended head stud torques before the mid '30s.

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Here comes the updates - 

Valves ground and seated. All seats seemed to be in excellent shape. Remarkable considering the condition of the old valves. New head gasket installed. Block had previously had five new oversize studs installed so needed to enlarge holes. Tried using my gasket punch. Bad idea. Knew from previous experience that a drill did not work so I used a round fine tooth file. Took a little time and had to file at about a 45° angle in order to keep from separating the bottom part of the gasket. 

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Gasket installed after coating with copper spray. 

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Head reinstalled and torqued initially to 35 pounds, then to 50. let it set overnight and torqued to 50 again. Lost a lot of torque overnight. Also something learned from many years in HD trucking industry, oil, threads and torque are a bad mix. Color is not to OE but plans are for a complete overhaul in a few years and it will have correct engine color then. It was what I had in the shop at the time. 

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Intake and exhaust reinstalled

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Off to the parts store (and golf) for hose clamps, hose and to try and find a plug adapter for my compression tester.

Hope to have it running again next week. 

 

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You may need to go to hydraulic shop to find material style hose to look like original . Two wire clamps are available new , thur some tractor places . I have some old stock 5 each plus shipping need good measurement .

   Job looks great !  I donot know what you mean about color silver domes were gray painted , by literature description in early 30's no sure on your year .

Edited by ArticiferTom
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It moved from the garage to the top of the driveway and around the yard under it own power today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! First time since I brought it home last March. REALLY grabby clutch. Likely just me needing to get used to it. The vacuum tank still is not working. It ran until the gas I poured in the tank ran out. Repeat and repeat and it keeps running. Also sounds like it may need that full rebuild. I think I hear a rod rapping and either need to tighten one of the nuts on the water pump or my seal is leaking. . 

Take a listen. Please let me know if you hear the knock and what you think it may be. 

Thanks all for looking. 

Paul

 

IMG_0371.MOV

Edited by Wheelmang
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It's plenty easy to determine if it's a rod knock by grounding the plugs one at a time.

If/when the knocking goes away you know where the problem lies.

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@cahartley thats a great idea to source a knock. If by chance say #1 had a knock, has there been much success in pulling oil pan and installing new bearings? Just in the problem hole? Or hardly worth it? I suppose other factors should be considered to determine engine health. Oil pressure. Compression. Oil consumption. Etc. 

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If one has isolated a problem in the bottom end it's going to have to be opened up anyway which is seldom a fun job.

So once in that deeply might as well check out everything the first time because Murphy will see to it you wind up doing things a second time....... :ph34r:

 

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I would have thought that if one bearing is knocking, others might not be far behind. It seems to me one must find out why it is knocking. e.g. a splash system on a long steep hill might starve the front bearing on the way up and the rear bearing on the way down. I met a fellow once lying on my back under his car helping him remove No. 6 after this happened, so he could continue to the overnight stop and fix it. You might also find the crank shaft oil ways are full of gunk and not much oil is getting to the bearings.

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11 hours ago, cahartley said:

It's plenty easy to determine if it's a rod knock by grounding the plugs one at a time.

If/when the knocking goes away you know where the problem lies.

Had totally forgot about that diagnostic procedure. Thanks for the reminder. 

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10 hours ago, keithb7 said:

@cahartley thats a great idea to source a knock. If by chance say #1 had a knock, has there been much success in pulling oil pan and installing new bearings? Just in the problem hole? Or hardly worth it? I suppose other factors should be considered to determine engine health. Oil pressure. Compression. Oil consumption. Etc. 

If/when I drop the pan again, and find a bad bearing, all rod and crank bearings will be replaced. Cannot see the justification in replacing just one or two. Possibly just need different shims? Right now budget and honey do list (Wife's Jag is now occupying the DBs spot in the garage. P0121 code) say wait. Compression seems fine. I am in the process of making an adapter for my compression tester to make sure though. Could not find one anywhere for that size plug hole so am going to use an old spark plug and machine the inside to fit one of my existing adapters.  

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My apologies to all of the Vacuum tank purists out there. :( I have decided to go with an electric fuel pump and pressure regulator on this. I am not a master mechanic by any stretch but have done all of my own vehicle repairs from brake jobs to engine overhauls and body work for 55 years and have met my match on this tank. I have done everything that has been recommended here as well as in the manuals all to no avail. I just want to go for short rides for now and for the price of the pump - that is what is going to happen. 

Thanks all for your valued assistance on this frustrating venture. 

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Keep in mind that loose bearing clearance might be fixed by removing a shim or two but a bad main bearing will require block removal and re-babbitting/reaming (unless things changed drastically from '25 to '26 block that is).  Rod bearings don't require pulling the block but you will need accurate crank journal dimensions so the new rods can be reamed for correct clearance.  You can't just swap in new bearing shells but you probably already know this.  At least dropping the pan is pretty easy on these.

Edited by MikeC5 (see edit history)
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Didn't see it mentioned anywhere in this thread but there will not be a ring ridge on any of the Dodge Brothers 4 cyl engines. Ever. The top ring comes all the way to the top of the bore, so no ridge is possible. Hence, no ridge to cut but also no ridge to show how worn the cylinder is! Measuring is the only way to tell on these.

 

Don't be afraid to remove rod bearing shims, just use plasti-gauge to check clearances. Be careful doing main bearings, especially the center main(s) Don't want to have the crank bending and flexing because it is no longer aligned. Make sure crank turns easy by hand with rods disconnected when tightening the mains up. You should be ok if it moves freely.

If the engine does not have shims, as they didn't come that way originally, the thick metal "shims" that hold the bearing shells in the rods can be machined down to take up clearance. If you machine too much, then add the thin brass shims to correct clearances.

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10 hours ago, dwollam said:

just use plasti-gauge to check clearances.

Great info  - Thanks. It will be a while until I drop the pan but does anyone have a range of acceptable clearance for rods and mains on this?

Thanks

Paul

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On 3/5/2018 at 11:20 PM, dwollam said:

just use plasti-gauge to check clearances.

Looks like I will be dropping the pan in the next few weeks. What clearance should I be shooting for?

Thanks

Paul

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I took my wife for our maiden voyage today. Almost a year after bring the DB home from Minnesota. She loved it! :D (me too)  Wasn't a long ride, just to a friends house. Foot brake kinda slows it down, emergency will lock them up. Really steep hill on a dirt road to get back to my house but handled it just fine in first gear. 

Vacuum tank fixed. There really wasn't anything wrong with it just the mechanic who reassembled it after cleaning and at least 6 times after that. Just in case anyone else may be ready to give up on their tank, check to make sure the needle on the bottom of the float in the inner tank is centered in the hole in the bottom of the tank. If it is not, it is quite easy to reassemble the tank with the needle not in the hole. The end result is the float is all the way to the top of the tank and it shuts off the fuel supply just like it is supposed to when the tank is full of gas. 

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Thanks to OLDCARFAN.  Tim insisted on not giving up on the tank. Now I have a brand new, never been used electric fuel pump in stock.

Next project (after finishing the paint job on my wife's car) is a compression test. I made an adapter for my compression gauge out of one the old plugs. Did not see one in the Snap On listings. After that drop the pan and plasti gauge the bearings. At least one is knocking. Oh, and the steering - it has a mind of its own. 

Thanks all for your great guidance in helping to get to this day.

Paul

 

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Glad to hear that you got the vacuum tank working.  I think you have a Gemmer steering box on yours.  There are things you can do to improve them but also take a look at your king pins and tie rod ends too.

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Steering: my 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 had 3" free play at the steering wheel rim. I had the sector shaft rebushed to very close tolerances and the shaft ground if it needed it. I think I put modern seals in it too. That brought it all back to 3/4" free play. I couldn't get new upper and lower bearings, they are NLA. The old ones were in very good condition, however. Mine is very drivable now. Also, as above, make sure the drag link and tie rod ends are not allowing movement and the king pin bushes and shims are also "tight". Remember to use a semi-fluid grease lubricant in the steering box.

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