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Gents,  an effort to get the color on the 63 Buick Riviera air cleaner holder as close as possible. In all cases: the version you see is my last attempt of “ getting it right”.5665F4BF-97FF-496A-B10F-4F91F158ABDC.thumb.jpeg.977200d298c85ab610aa24545d6ea12b.jpeg

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Bob- nice job . Were you able to get the "crinkle " feel ?  What paint did you use ? Got one to restore myself -trying to get up the nerve to do it . Thanks 

KReed

ROA 14549

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The color looks pretty good Bob.  I don't know why GM used a crinkle finish to begin with.  It certainly wasn't practical.  

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2 hours ago, Scott Mckenzie said:

VHT makes a crinkle red if you have to have crinkle . Bob that looks great,keep up the good work !

 

Scott, thanks for your valuable and appreciated input.

Red Riviera Bob

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2 hours ago, kreed said:

Bob- nice job . Were you able to get the "crinkle " feel ?  What paint did you use ? Got one to restore myself -trying to get up the nerve to do it . Thanks 

KReed

ROA 14549

Ken, the recipe is simple. Strip all the paint off to bare metal. Wash it with soap and water. Dry it off good and use dark gray primer. Next spray with cream color paint. Lastly get the VH? Red hi temp paint and spray. Go light on each coat and you won’t get any drips.

This is Jim Cannon’s recipe- not mine. I used Jim’s method. Piece of cake. Getting the metal decal on secure and have the seems match up is another Jim Cannon instruction set.

ill send some close ups and you decide how much krinkle is there.

RRB

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2 hours ago, Pat Curran said:

The color looks pretty good Bob.  I don't know why GM used a crinkle finish to begin with.  It certainly wasn't practical.  

I've also wondered why Buick chose not to match the color of the decal and the air cleaner.

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1 hour ago, RivNut said:

I've also wondered why Buick chose not to match the color of the decal and the air cleaner.

 

1 hour ago, RivNut said:

I've also wondered why Buick chose not to match the color of the decal and the air cleaner.

Ed, have not a clue. Actually, I thought the aluminum decal on my ac cleaner “holder” was incorrect. Since I’ve never seen the real deal so to speak I’m only guessing. I would think, like you, the metal decal color would match the canister color that holds the air cleaner. I’m sure there may be someone that knows the truth.

thank you

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3 hours ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

Ken, the recipe is simple. Strip all the paint off to bare metal. Wash it with soap and water. Dry it off good and use dark gray primer. Next spray with cream color paint. Lastly get the VH? Red hi temp paint and spray. Go light on each coat and you won’t get any drips.

This is Jim Cannon’s recipe- not mine. I used Jim’s method. Piece of cake. Getting the metal decal on secure and have the seems match up is another Jim Cannon instruction set.

ill send some close ups and you decide how much krinkle is there.

RRB

Ken here are some close ups.

D626E4AF-6F3E-4B79-B0BD-6FE870BB2915.jpeg

824C9F65-D844-4582-9E0C-C2EC3FB670F5.jpeg

8596B0EA-BA23-433D-A644-6E803767E1B8.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Red Riviera Bob said:

I’m sure there may be someone that knows the truth.

Probably took it to his grave with him. 😔

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13 hours ago, RivNut said:

Probably took it to his grave with him. 😔

Ed, again you have it right. So much of automobile history is preserved you would think a color code for the air cleaner cover would exist. It is hard to believe the facts regarding the color of that particular air cleaner doesn’t exist some place. I suppose a history detective with time available could track down the color story.

RRB

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On 2/9/2018 at 9:14 AM, kreed said:

Bob- nice job . Were you able to get the "crinkle " feel ?  What paint did you use ? Got one to restore myself -trying to get up the nerve to do it . Thanks 

KReed

ROA 14549

Ken, send it over I’ll do a good job for you. I don’t how much it will cost, but whatever it s you’ll like deal.

RRB

OR IF WANT to do it yourself I’ll walk you through how I do it.

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Hi Bob and Jim,

would a white primer be a good choice instead of the grey primer to bring out the red in the VHT? ( not wanting to change the recipie but just a thought)

 

You have just given me a project for my new grit blast cabinet 😀😀😀😀😀

 

And I used some masking tape to join the seams on the aluminium decal plate and seems to work ok. Though this time I may use a silicone adhesive.

 

cheers

Rodney

 

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Rodney,  Ken,

 

Bob did a really nice job of getting the "wrinkle" in the paint but if you want your car to look 100% factory, you need to shy away from a solid red and get a little orange in the mix.

 

Image result for 1963 Riviera engine

 

The color of this air cleaner is original / correct.  The orientation of thsi air cleaner is wrong.  The snorkel should be somewhere between 4:00 and 5:00.  There are tabs inside the breather base that line up with studs on the air horn of the carburetor that will align the breather correctly.  If the breather is aligned correctly, it cannot be rotated either direction.  Put the breather on in pieces, base, filter, lid, and wing nut and you can see the tabs and studs.  There are other "modified" items on this car that are not.  The owner has added some custom touches.  The inner fenders should be Satin black, as should the firewall* and the vacuum canister.  No fancy wiring covers either. So don't take this for gospel as correct - other than engine color and air cleaner color.

 

Jim Cannon's trick for hiding the seam in the aluminum disk is to paint the edges of the disk before gluing it down.  Plenty of glue and a large, heavy bag filled with sand sitting on top and covering the entire disk until the glue dries. You need to cover every square millimeter of surface with some weight until the glue dries.  

 

Ed

 

* The firewalls on the early production 1963 Rivieras are painted body color, but I do not know a date or an FB number for the change.  Jim's '63 Registry info may contain that info.

 

 

This picture has the correct under hood paint scheme but the color of the air cleaner is wrong.  It's really difficult to find a good picture of a correct 1963 Riviera engine compartment on line.  :mellow:

 

Related image

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Gents, here is another pic from iPad Pro in natural sunlight at 11:00 AM eastern standard time. You will notice the snorkel decal is missing and you can see the color the PO had. I waivered from Jim Connor’s instructions by using a lighter gray primer. If, memory serves me Jim wrote a dark gray primer goes on bare metal, followed by a cream color spray paint, then finish with red. One other gent suggested one would paint the ac cleaner orange in the first place.

7E0E0D57-8AB0-4FD9-87BF-3BAA23323D2A.jpeg

37F6A59C-E434-4978-AE34-EBA46C1FF3FF.jpeg

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Here's a follow up to my previous post about correct air cleaner orientation.

 

Pictures:

The base with my green masking tape arrows showing the tabs.

20180319_101912.thumb.jpg.d12946872479256324422ac745d41622.jpg

 

The carburetor. Once again my green masking tape arrows pointing to the studs.

20180319_102241.thumb.jpg.d4aef34902ed3fd3e4684da336d9690c.jpg

 

Finally the base properly oriented on the carb.  This picture is posed as if you're looking at the engine by standing in front of the radiator

20180319_102344.thumb.jpg.d4fb0710fbd8f8a8aeabed20ad02a36f.jpg

 

Sorry about the dirt, just a couple of pieces I pulled from the shelf.

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On 3/19/2018 at 11:42 AM, RivNut said:

Sorry about the dirt, just a couple of pieces I pulled from the shelf.

 

No worries -- we all have spare carburetors and air cleaners gathering dust on the shelf!  ;)

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On 3/19/2018 at 9:25 AM, RivNut said:

<snip>

 

The color of this air cleaner is original / correct.  The orientation of thsi air cleaner is wrong.  The snorkel should be somewhere between 4:00 and 5:00.  There are tabs inside the breather base that line up with studs on the air horn of the carburetor that will align the breather correctly.  If the breather is aligned correctly, it cannot be rotated either direction.  Put the breather on in pieces, base, filter, lid, and wing nut and you can see the tabs and studs.  There are other "modified" items on this car that are not.  The owner has added some custom touches.  The inner fenders should be Satin black, as should the firewall* and the vacuum canister.  No fancy wiring covers either. So don't take this for gospel as correct - other than engine color and air cleaner color.

 

Jim Cannon's trick for hiding the seam in the aluminum disk is to paint the edges of the disk before gluing it down.  Plenty of glue and a large, heavy bag filled with sand sitting on top and covering the entire disk until the glue dries. You need to cover every square millimeter of surface with some weight until the glue dries.  

 

Ed

 

* The firewalls on the early production 1963 Rivieras are painted body color, but I do not know a date or an FB number for the change.  Jim's '63 Registry info may contain that info.

 

 

 

 

Ed-

Earliest known example of Firewall Sprayed Black (not body color) seen in March 1963 (03C)

 

 

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On 3/19/2018 at 10:10 AM, Red Riviera Bob said:

Gents, here is another pic from iPad Pro in natural sunlight at 11:00 AM eastern standard time. You will notice the snorkel decal is missing and you can see the color the PO had. I waivered from Jim Connor’s instructions by using a lighter gray primer. If, memory serves me Jim wrote a dark gray primer goes on bare metal, followed by a cream color spray paint, then finish with red. One other gent suggested one would paint the ac cleaner orange in the first place.

7E0E0D57-8AB0-4FD9-87BF-3BAA23323D2A.jpeg

37F6A59C-E434-4978-AE34-EBA46C1FF3FF.jpeg

 

 

I carefully sanded my original air cleaner down with very fine paper in order to establish what Buick sprayed on the air cleaner when new.  They used a dark grey primer, followed by the cream base color before the wrinkle red. That is where my instructions came from - forensic science.  My original red did not have an orange hue that I could see.

 

Ed shows an old original air cleaner with an orange hue.  How to we know that time and heat and age did not turn the original red paint into an orange hue? We could be trying to reproduce something that has changed and is not correct.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

Ed-

Earliest known example of Firewall Sprayed Black (not body color) seen in March 1963 (03C)

 

 

Thanks,

 

If that's the case, I couldn't help anyway because my 63 (02E) is black.  I'll have to look sometime to see if there's a difference in gloss between the firewall and the inner fenders.

 

Ed

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8 hours ago, Jim Cannon said:

 

 

I carefully sanded my original air cleaner down with very fine paper in order to establish what Buick sprayed on the air cleaner when new.  They used a dark grey primer, followed by the cream base color before the wrinkle red. That is where my instructions came from - forensic science.  My original red did not have an orange hue that I could see.

 

Ed shows an old original air cleaner with an orange hue.  How to we know that time and heat and age did not turn the original red paint into an orange hue? We could be trying to reproduce something that has changed and is not correct.

 

 

The same thing happens in our American music. We try to cover a tune exactly as recorded only to find out the the musical piece has a note or phrase that is not as intended. Another way to convey the idea of copying is we are trying to copy something that is wrong.

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I have a pristeen glossy factory brochure that shows that the air cleaner has an orange hue to it.  My new computer is not compatible with my old scanner so I can't post a picture of it.  You'll just have to believe me.  The air cleaner that I photographed is just one from the pile, the really nice one on my car is in storage and I'm not driving 65 miles just to take a picture of it. But they're both the same color.  😁

 

My fear is that because this original color is hard to match, that the copies that are wrong will become the norm.  😨

The bigger problem is that wrinkle finishes are so limited in color.  It appears that way too many restorers are going for tbe wrinkle finish regardless of color rather than going for the correct color.  Just the opposite of the music you spoke of.  But,  on the other hand,  aren't some of the later rendetions of older songs sometimes more pleasing to the ear than the original?  Willie Nelson's rendetion of Stardust is the best that I've heard.  Using this example does not mean that I'm willing to compromise my thoughts on the correct color for the air cleaner.

 

One other example is that so many 63 and 64 Riviera owners have installed the 65 and later Buick Rally wheels on their cars that those owners are now able to get away with showing their cars in the "stock" class rather than in the modified class at the ROA events. Tain't right but......

 

I'll keep digging for more photos of orange hued air cleaners.  

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4 hours ago, RivNut said:

I have a pristeen glossy factory brochure that shows that the air cleaner has an orange hue to it.  My new computer is not compatible with my old scanner so I can't post a picture of it.  You'll just have to believe me.  The air cleaner that I photographed is just one from the pile, the really nice one on my car is in storage and I'm not driving 65 miles just to take a picture of it. But they're both the same color.  😁

 

My fear is that because this original color is hard to match, that the copies that are wrong will become the norm.  😨

The bigger problem is that wrinkle finishes are so limited in color.  It appears that way too many restorers are going for tbe wrinkle finish regardless of color rather than going for the correct color.  Just the opposite of the music you spoke of.  But,  on the other hand,  aren't some of the later rendetions of older songs sometimes more pleasing to the ear than the original?  Willie Nelson's rendetion of Stardust is the best that I've heard.  Using this example does not mean that I'm willing to compromise my thoughts on the correct color for the air cleaner.

 

One other example is that so many 63 and 64 Riviera owners have installed the 65 and later Buick Rally wheels on their cars that those owners are now able to get away with showing their cars in the "stock" class rather than in the modified class at the ROA events. Tain't right but......

 

I'll keep digging for more photos of orange hued air cleaners.  

Ed, I believe your brochure color AND I believe your description of the orange color on the air cleaner to be period correct. I suspect an agreed upon proof source of the color of the air cleaner by a recognized authority ( like AACA) is required to set the standard. I’m cool with the color you have provided.ive painted my air cleaner two or thee times. Stick a fork in me I’m done. I had fun doing the work and the air cleaner does a fine job sitting on top the carb.

Your explanation of a cover song done by other than the original recording artist can be more pleasing to the ear than the original can be entirely true.I meant if a musician or singer covering a song note for note of the original tune knowingly sing or play the same wrong note that was originally recorded is okay if that is what they want. Example, I play “Sitting On The Dock of the Bay” the way Otis and Steve Cropper recorded the tune. Otis played the ii and iii chord as Major chords when standard practice in American music today is the ii and iii chord in a Major key are voiced as a minor. Another musician I know adds the Dominant 7 in the chords he plays for “ Sitting on the Dock of the Bay” and it sounds great.

If I were to compete my car in shows with intentions of winning something I would have bias tires,stock exhaust system, and I”d probably wrestle away one of those more red/orange air cleaners from someone.😎

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I looked again and found other pictures.  It appears that either the color from month to month may not have been consistent or perhaps as,  Jim says, who knows what heat and age may have done, but I saw something this time that I'd not made a note of before.  None of the original air cleaners for which I found pictures are painted in a gloss; they're all either a satin or flat finish. 

 

Back in '68, Carolyn and I used to sit in a little bar on the south side of Emporia and play G9, Otis singing "Sitting on the dock....." a couple of times per night.and drink PBR on tap.

Edited by RivNut (see edit history)

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Random thoughts...

- Red turns orange over the years.

- It's entirely possible that different paints were used at different times during the production run.  There's no reason to assume that an air cleaner painted in October was identical to one painted the following April.

- Why not prime it, paint it with a light-color wrinkle finish, then cover with a top coat of the correct color?  Wouldn't that end up with the correct texture and color?

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