TESLA

[C Carl]

Spinney' the problem with using a planetary slingshot technique for interstellar travel , is that the voyage will need constant acceleration for 25 years , and constant deceleration for another 25 years outbound , and ditto inbound. No , the scale of the task is beyond any familiar comparison. Maybe a theoretical drag race against the clock could help show how unusual this problem is. Say you  beach a fleet of empty supertankers. Fill them with all the structures ever built on Earth. Everything from your house through all the pyramids , to the Great Walls of the world. From the one in China , to Hadrian's , in fact even to walls yet unbuilt too. Let's include the huge wall Mexico is going to build in order to keep rapists , murderers and druggies in their place. Load the half a million ton supers right on up. Weld 'em all together and install a propulsion system sufficient to shoot those tankers across 1/4 mile of sand. Dead stop start to cross the line in a microsecond. I recon that amount of energy would amount to less than a fart into a hurricane by comparison with the energy we need to run that Brass car for the intended jaunt. I think I will go to sleep for a while now. I hope I dream up a pleasant space adventure. Maybe just a trip to that good old Moon of ours. In a Nickel era Cadillac ,    - Carl 

[Restorer32]

13 hours ago, C Carl said:

I can give you an idea of the velocity. It would have had to hit escape velocity. Something just slighter more than about seventeen thousand (17,000) mph. Hope that helps ! Yes , the humor that surrounds this "outta this world" stunt is quite refreshing. I don't think I have been so amused by space oddity high jinks since the alien made pyramids were "discovered" on Mars. The aliens even had built a huge face so we could see what THEY had looked like , when WE finally got there. They preferred Mars to Earth , although the most astute of the "face freaks" here , believe they are among us. I better go check that one out.      - Carl 

 

If you don't believe there are aliens among us you have never been in a Waffle House at 3 a.m.

[Restorer32]

Ran when launched.

[Tim Wolfe]

I have two relatives who own Teslas. If you get a chance to ride in--do it!  Quiet and fast. Computer screen tells you everything you need to know, batteries are small and low in the car for a good ride. I believe there is a screen that tells you what batteries to replace when needed. Put a cd in with a v8 exhaust sound and enjoy the ride!  

[padgett]

Don't get me started on the erroneous assumptions deriving from the Michelson–Morley experiment.

[oily rag]

Most did not get the humor of the display on the dash that read "DON"T PANIC" in large friendly letters.

This was from the book "HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY" by Douglas Adams.

By the way there is an empty seat.

[C Carl]

Well , the Brass car is rolling out to the launch pad. Greg , if we are going to visit the alpha Centauri system , you are correct about 10% speed of light. But that would be the AVERAGE speed. The Brass car would have to accelerate for 25 years to 20% the speed of light and decelerate for 25 years to drop in for a landing. Planets have been discovered there. Coming home , of course , would be the same. I wonder what g force would be necessary to maintain the acceleration/deceleration for the trip. No weightlessness would be felt. I did send a P.M. to Joe to see if he could help. I think this should be wrapped up this weekend. If we are all in , probably it would be a good idea to award two dinners. Any good reason to meet forum friends.     - Carl

[1912Staver]

Hi Carl, I think the main practical hurdle is the 100 year round trip. As far as I know; in the natural universe, nothing with any appreciable mass travels that far in a round trip { or even a one way trip} in anything as fast as 100 years. And most certainly not with a standing start and finish. Once you are free from the earths gravity an object could ; given enough time, make the journey to Alpha Centauri with a comparatively  small amount of energy. {and a exceptionally good aim} Once you set it in motion there is no reason why it won't continue moving indefinitely.   But the 100 year duration just isn't realistic for a object.

 

Greg in Canada

 

[SC38dls]

Greg what fun are you?  It’s not if it can be done but what would it take to do it!  We took on the challenge to put a man on the moon and did it with the lowest bidder - the astronauts were very brave guys to get into the capsule knowing that bit of info. 

We can in theory spend what ever we want to get the Brass Fast rocket to a star. So go for it. 

Have fun

dave s 

Edited February 10, 2018 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[mike6024]

Ambient photons providing free energy-

 

 

[C Carl]

HI Greg and Dave. You are both right. It is at the same time , a question of what it would take to do it , and also the realization that it is not possible due to the enormous amount of energy required. This space car thing we are talking about , the Tesla , reminded me of a lecture I heard on C-SPAN about 25 years ago. The Project SETI  director at the time was eloquently impressing the audience of the need to increase funding before the microwave band essential for potential interstellar communication was gobbled up , mostly for military use. After that point , the signals (if any) would have to have been picked up on the far side of the moon , shielded from interference , way over there. It was very late , and I was having trouble sleeping. In those days I found C-SPAN to be interesting enough to take my mind off my problems , but boring enough to put me to sleep. This time it interested me. Director was making the point that if other societies exist , we will know of them only through sending of massless particles. If they are out there , the best we will ever be able to do is to detect their electro-magnetic signals , and if and when we can respond , comply with their request : RSVP. To illustrate what an impossible E.T. voyage would entail , he gave the answer to the proposition at hand. The total earth energy output years (yes , plural !) , required to send a 3000 pound car , (now "antique" , owing to Director's lecture being about 25 years ago) on such a trip within a lifetime , is , to put it mildly , prohibitive.

 

With the passage of a quarter of a century , we now know that radio communication is also not practical. The necessary power to overcome dilution from beam scattering is not going to be possible to modulate and harness. All realistic potential transmission now is thought to be conceivable only by infrared lasers. Humans have actually produced a sufficiently powerful burst with a duration of a nanosecond, or three. A long , modulated message is beyond our current technology. If we had the ability to produce a signal with monochromaticity of 1 Hz FWHM , in infrared ,,we could be detected at interstellar distances by using a laser of just a few KW !!!!!!  A number of our telescopes doing research on  stars which could conceivably host life , carry piggyback equipment able to detect such signals. Just in case ! 

 

Our technology has has already sent a space voyager out of our solar system. It will pass another star in 40,000 years. If you packed the pantry with enough fodder to see you through , you'd never get off the ground. But we will see that ther is no "sweet spot" available to get the job done , no matter how short or long the trip. I prefer driving my oldest cars under 40 mph. At three times that speed, my fastest cars do quite well. However , I don't feel comfortable doing it anymore. These days I can't concentrate as well as necessary. Risky business. A manned trip to Mars , riskier yet.        - Carl

 

                             

                                

[SC38dls]

Carl - I don’t feel as if any of my answers could possibly be right as none were any where near a complete answer to a thought provoking question. Therefore Greg should get the Mickey D’s consolation dinner. Besides he probably has a better chance of seeing you in person than I do. 

Have fun and a French fry for me 

Dave S 

Edited February 10, 2018 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[C Carl]

All in ?  Greg ? Dave ? You ?     -  CC    

 

P.S.  And indeed , the Brass Car Celestial Tour would require PLURAL (not just an appreciable fraction of) , Total Earth Energy Output Years at present rate of consumption !!!!!!!!!!!! .........  Two ? Ten ? 532 ? Guess ?  

Edited February 11, 2018 by C Carl
Add P.S. (see edit history)

[mike6024]

On 2/8/2018 at 4:08 PM, 1912Staver said:

the brass car would have to be traveling almost 1/10  the speed of light to make the round trip in 100 year,

 

 

Energy to accelerate to this speed once in outer space where there is no aerodynamic drag nor gravity -

 

1/2 m V**2

 

m = 3000 lbs= 1361 KG

 

V= 1/10 speed of light = 0.10 * 2.998 e 8 m/s = 2.998 e 7 m/sec

 

Energy = 1/2 * 1361 kg * ( 2.998 e 7) ** 2 = 6.12 e 17 Joules

 

 

[C Carl]

HI Mike ! Thanks for playing. The more the merrier ! A couple of observations : First , the energy to escape the Solar System is totally insignificant. The Brass car would need to accelerate for 25 years , until reaching 20% the speed of light. Then to decelerate for another 25 years. Same game coming home. Secondly , for the sake of simplicity , I think we should not consider drag. That of the Earth's atmosphere would not be relevant at all. We won't be there for long. What would probably be of some calculable magnitude : pushing that high drag coefficient antique car through the density of interstellar space. I believe that density is less than the ultra highest ultra high vacuum we can draw in our laboratories. 10 to the what ?  -17 ? -18 ? -21 ? I would think something like that. But interstellar space is populated by the occasional molecule , or radical , or whatever. The collisions for 100 years at an average velocity of 10% speed of light might be a slight factor. Let's fold the windshield and call it good. I do hope to be in your area this Spring. My drag coefficient will be that of a large Nickel Era sedan. You know the good soup lines in your town. Let's go ! We can take the old Cadillac. You can drive it.        - Carl 

 

Say ; I just realized we are at about T minus 14 or 15 hours or so. We better secure a nice Brass car for the trip. How about a roadster , in order to be in keeping with Bob and Elon's initial roadster hijinks ? Maybe Phil and Becky will lend us their '09 Pope Hartford.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by C Carl
Add P.S. (see edit history)

[C Carl]

SIXTEEN.      LIFTOFF WAS PERFECT !   By the time I finish thumb tapping the good news , the Zero-Niner will have exceeded escape velocity. That Pope Hartford roadster has just become the fastest roadster ever , the obvious advantage of the Tesla notwithstanding.  MAN ! That's a whole bunch of energy ! MULTIPLE TOTAL EARTH ENERGY OUTPUT YEARS AT PRESENT RATE OF CONSUMPTION. We gotta budget the energy for the trip , that's just the physics of it. Lucky we don't have to worry about carrying fuel. We have a Whizbang-Yeehaw propulsion system. It uses Super Dipper Dooper Doo as the propellant. GREAT STUFF !! And since the payload is destined for a temporary exhibit at the host"s museum , we are sending it unoccupied. That will also save the increased fuel necessities for passengers , fodder , and life support. Whew ! Wonder how much more energy THAT would require ? Good thing we are doing the "Doo"  thing. But physics is still physics. 

 

That's right. Sixteen. Uh , but not Total Earth Energy Output Years. Ummmmmm , not exactly. Sixteen , all right. But sixteen KILO Total Earth Energy Output Years at presen rate of consumption. Sixteen Thousand Total Earth Energy Years at present rate of consumption ! That is what it would take to send a 3000 pound car , Brass , Electric , Antique or otherwise on a round trip to a nearby star and return with a duration of 100 years. Disregarding the energy needed for propellant. 

 

Let me me just post this now. It takes me some time to arthritic thumb tap away at this thing. But I really must come back and discuss the source. He knew what he was talking about , and that is what he said. I also remember the energy he said would be needed to allow radio communication. 150,000 megawatts. But I have no details. Omni , or directional ? If directional , was he compensating for beam scatter ? I know we have some very competent radio folk here. But for our payload : 16,000 TEEOY at present rate of consumption. Them aliens ain't here , and they ain't gonna be here ! And all THIS from a guy who has seen 2 UFOs. Changed my life. That is , until I was able to "I" the "U". No , they were not Bob's new Tesla either.  Thanks for posting , brother ! Brought back an interesting , now , Antique Car story !      - Carl

[1912Staver]

Hopefully my Staver will look as nice as the Pope someday. Unfortunately its Teetor Hartley T head is not even close to a Pope engine in output. A few Stavers were built as race cars and speedsters back in the day.