New guy, old car

[Alfre]

track down 6v battery

[Summershandy]

I'm with Alfre. I was able to get the original 6 volt battery that fits in the battery tray perfectly locally. Think tractors use them. Even it's a beast to behold! I read that 6 volt systems are reliable as long as the connections are clean. I had a blast learning about them, things like "polarizing" the generator. My ride is staying original. Read, read, read and search Grizz. I didn't know sh** about these cars before I got mine. The internet and this forum will be your best resources. Cheers!

 

 

[Grimy]

Grizz, check your battery cables for thickness.  6V needs 0 or 00 gauge cables, rather than the smaller cables for 12V.  And 6V connections must be clean as summershandy says.  Connections other than to the battery posts can be enhanced with star washers under the connections.

[Grizz]

Great. Great. Great. Gotta find a battery. Also the wires are pretty decrepit. After I hear this thing run a new wiring harness is in store. I found this site that has these old cloth tracered wires and complete harnesses. I think I LL try and save money and spend some time doing one wire at a time. Any thoughts, feelings, insults?

[Summershandy]

Most definitely the motor first. I would put in as little money as you had to and mostly work to see if it's worth it. Maybe someone who's done rewiring can chime in. If I had the money I would def go with prewired. Did that with my brake lines. Didn't want the hassle of  "hoping" I didn't kink a line or mess up a flare. Of course wiring would be a different story. I've been lucky so far, mine are hardened but still insulated. 

[Grizz]

2 hours ago, Summershandy said:

Did that with my brake lines. Didn't want the hassle of  "hoping" I didn't kink a line or mess up a flare

I can order complete brake lines?? I don’t have a problem making my own but I was wondering how exactly I would route them since I have nothing to go off of. I haven’t got this far but it’s been in the back of my head. if I hear the motor run I’ll go ahead and do the fuel tank and lines and pump. Then I’ll do the brakes. Which should just consist of the master cylinder and lines. I’m pretty sure the drums, shoes, and wheel cylinders have all been done. They look new from the outside and Especially since I lugged home  a heavy barrel full of the old stuff (which didn’t look bad). Thanks for all the help! A plan is forming in my mind. Just needs a little execution 

[Summershandy]

You have your original lines? Just remove them and copy them. Kind of a technique as you go along I tape every couple feet. I had to do a couple mods with the ones I got. They were a little too long and ends were bent wrong. Overall I'm happy with them. Got them all hooked up to the junction block today. Have you gotten a parts catalogue from California Pontiac Restoration yet? They should ship you one no charge. As for the lines, I replaced my fuel line. Don't get a prebent one. It was simple to copy the original and only cost me $25 vs $125. I'm doing the complete brake system. My wheel cylinders were packed with mud. I don't even know how I stopped. Check out my fuel sending unit. It was seized and had no sock at the end of the line....hoping that's why my gas gauge didn't work! You don't even want to see a pic of the gas tank. 

 

 

[Grizz]

I’m pretty sure the brake lines are gone. The wheel cylinders are capped off and I got nothing in the way of booster or master cylinder on my fire wall. The fuel line is there ( I think). I haven’t really gotten underneath the car yet. Im waiting on my garage to be built so I can put it on a lift! I like working on cars, i do not like laying on my back in the driveway. Its hard to drink beer that way! 

[Guest]

Is your master cylinder not under the floor below where  your left foot would rest?

[Summershandy]

Hence the plates on the floorboard...master cylinder access. It's mounted on the frame.

[deac]

You posted a picture of a fuel sending unit.  I have some experience with these things.  I have found getting your existing one rebuilt by John Wolf and Co http://www.antiqueinstrument.com/   as opposed to buying a new on.  They do great work for a reasonable price.  I have used this company a few times and every time been happy with the results.

 

Chris

[Summershandy]

Thanks Chris. I've been pulling so much from CPR that I got a new unit a while back. IMO it's really bad. But more contact names the better....you never know. Cheers!

[Grizz]

On 3/25/2018 at 12:46 PM, Tinindian said:

Is your master cylinder not under the floor below where  your left foot would rest?

Ta da!!! It is!!! Who said ignorance is bliss?? It kinda hurts...so I’d obviously seen this before and I didn’t think much of it. I’ll show you why here. I did some head scratching yesterday. After looking at your floor plates and digging up what I had, I couldn’t figure out why mine were different than yours and how they fit together. This is what I found:so the black one on the top is like yours. I couldn’t find the top half though, the only thing I could find is the plate shown on the bottom half of the picture. They both fit in the space. The one on the top fits with the brake pedal but there is a lot of “see through” space because I don’t have the top half.(or can’t find it yet). The one on the bottom covers everything but the pedal can’t come through. So what the heck?! Then it hit me, I was wondering what the four bolt holes around the opening are for on the bottom cover. Then it hit me, also the same reason I didn’t recognize the master cyl. It’s because I knew I had this:I knew this was a booster and master cylinder. It bolts to the pedal plate and replaced the current master cyl. I was thinking it would go somewhere up on the firewall where modern ones go. What a dummy... now I’m faced with deciding to go power brakes or not. I think the car came with power brakes only because the floor is that same reddish color as the power brakes floor pan. The reason the pedal would not fit is because it’s the wrong pedal. I would need a power brake pedal assembly that connects to the steering column inside the car. The other downside to doing power brakes is that this unit will most definitely have to be rebuilt. Where as the master cyl. That is already there looks newer and ready to go. I’ve decided to just bolt up the power brake pedal plate with the steering wheel for now. This will keep that cat out. Then I’m going get some shelves and seriously organize this pile of parts. 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Grizz (see edit history)

[Grizz]

Got the pedal plate and steering column and gear installed. Not sure if this pedal plate has another part or not but it will do for now. Gotta get a rebuild kit for the booster and a pedal and bracket. Also thinking about buying complete brake lines because mine are gone. Also don’t think I have the shift linkage from the column to trans. Still sorting parts. But being able steer is a big plus. Brakes and 6 volt battery coming up. Here’s pics of what’s left in my master cylinder and booster. Installed pedal plate, and steering wheel:

[Summershandy]

Booster looks a little dry there chum! Congrats on the column. Guess your plate is different than mine for the power brakes? It doesn't look like there'd be another plate but someone with power should know. I ordered my brake lines from CPR but I think they just ordered them from 

Classic Tube. Maybe you can get a better deal ordering direct. I'm more of a "one stop" shopping kinda guy. Works better for me in Canada. Good Luck!

[Grizz]

I was poking around a bit today and I think I DO have existing brake lines. Better yet I think they been done when the frame was powder coated. They run inside the frame? Now all I need are the flex lines to the wheel cylinders. I can have those made if I have the correct length? Thanks for the help!

[Summershandy]

Mine run more along the frame. There are clips that hold them. The hardest one I had troubles with was the left front, surprisingly the shortest. I have 2 flexible brake hoses up front and one that goes from the main line to the back junction block on the rear axle. Both wheel cylinders at the back have no hoses. All brakes hoses were under $20 each. 

[poci1957]

1 hour ago, Summershandy said:

Mine run more along the frame. There are clips that hold them. The hardest one I had troubles with was the left front, surprisingly the shortest. I have 2 flexible brake hoses up front and one that goes from the main line to the back junction block on the rear axle. Both wheel cylinders at the back have no hoses. All brakes hoses were under $20 each. 

 

This is all correct and the three rubber hoses are available from CPR but would probably also be available from a local parts store. 

 

I am sure you know this but note it is considered normal good practice when doing brake work to check and refurbish the whole system while you have it apart.  One should check all the lines, hoses, wheel and master cylinder and clean or replace as necessary all at once.  Old wheel cylinders need to be rebuilt or replaced at this time and should also be available, they are notorious for leaking and/or gumming up in old cars not being driven.  Hard lines should be checked for rust and replaced if needed, pre-bent kits are available from CPR and straight replacement lines for your own bending are at any parts store.  Good luck, Todd C  

[Summershandy]

2 minutes ago, poci1957 said:

Hard lines should be checked for rust and replaced if needed

Todd makes good sense. My understanding is brake lines can rust from the inside out. They may look good from the outside once polished up but behind that shine may lurk a pin hole. The other thing to consider which really made my mind up is, when a leak is developed in a single chamber cylinder system you ain't got no brakes! Unlike modern masters that have 2 chambers, you still have front or rears that could get you home safe. I did my entire system. This was my first time doing one and I also didn't want to keep coming back and patching up any fails. One could definitely do it for less cost with reusing and rebuilding.  Not trying to get you to spend more money there Grizz....just to keep you informed.

 

And besides....look how purty it looks!

 

 

[poci1957]

25 minutes ago, Summershandy said:

Todd makes good sense. My understanding is brake lines can rust from the inside out. They may look good from the outside once polished up but behind that shine may lurk a pin hole. The other thing to consider which really made my mind up is, when a leak is developed in a single chamber cylinder system you ain't got no brakes! Unlike modern masters that have 2 chambers, you still have front or rears that could get you home safe. I did my entire system. This was my first time doing one and I also didn't want to keep coming back and patching up any fails. One could definitely do it for less cost with reusing and rebuilding.  Not trying to get you to spend more money there Grizz....just to keep you informed.

 

Exactly right.  Old brake fluid absorbs water and starts rust inside the system in addition to possible rust from the outside.  Modern cars actually call for replacing the fluid every few years to remove the moisture, in the old days no one did that (or even now, actually).  No sense putting in, say, a nice new master cylinder when you have old fluid and old wheel cylinders ready to contaminate the new part.  Also the pressure in the hydraulic system is supposedly 800 PSI and up so a pinhole will give way pretty soon, everything must be up to snuff to handle that kind of load.  Good luck with yours, Todd C

 

[Grizz]

Good info. Thank you. My mom had kids today so I got a “brake” to check out what I got. Looks like I have a brake line, but like y’all said, gonna replace it. It was new 30 years ago when the car was last loved. Correct me if I’m wrong here. The brake line runs from master to junction block (need a new one). Block to front left wheel. Block under motor along frame to right. Block along frame to the back? All I’m missing is the master to block, and block to right side. And all the flex lines. Also even though these drums look new, the wheel cylinders look 30 years old too huh? I’m going to be honest here, I looked at the OUTSIDE of these drums and thought, “ehhh, look fairly new, I shouldn’t have to take the wheels off”. I’m ashamed of myself

[GARY F]

I agree with summershandy. I look at it this way, you only get ONE chance to STOP.. When I did both of my cars I put every item on NEW.

[Summershandy]

Thanks for the pic of the junction block. The hooks up are a bit different from mine. But now that I think of it, it shouldn't really matter. I don't believe there's any directional ports in there. My replacement lines were very close except for a couple bends I can't figure out where they took the pattern from. Is that line that shoots to the right in the picture for your left front cylinder? My line ran through the frame and was very difficult to re-install. If you have the option of running outside the frame I'd highly recommend it. Don't be ashamed, I've made some stupid boo boo's while doing my restore. Also, my cylinders looked good until I took a look behind the rubber boots. So packed with mud and rust I have no idea how it stopped for me during a test ride!