Trailer Tires

[padgett]

1 hour ago, Robert Street said:

 

I disagree as I have owned gas tow rigs with the 6.0 and 6.2's and I don't plan on ever going back to that very low mileage and high oil and transmission temperatures.

Robert

Guess I do not understand, I have always run my tow vehicles cool, pulled a rig over Monteagle in mid-July and never broke 200F. Is mainly a matter of driving gentle.

Have had gas TVs since pulling race cars all over the mid-west in the '70s (12 mpg). Have had mothing but 6s since the late 90's. . Had a diesel RV for years and also ran that cool (extra radiators). Even had an RVEECO cooler on my Westphalia. Key with a turbo is an EGT gauge and to watch it carfeully. Currently I pull a 27' camper at 17-18 mpg with my Jeep and the occasional car on a trailer or dolly and it can display both oil temp and trans temp. If temp goes up, I slow down. Nice thing about lockup automatics is they naturally run cooler and on hills I run a lower gear locked rather than a higher one unlocked.

 

Professional rigs are different, I am an amateur.

 

 

[edinmass]

George, I understand the Jeepster isn’t too heavy, and the Tundras towing. As a shop owner who has done thousands of brake jobs out of my modern shop, and towed antique cars hundreds of thousands of miles, In my humble, (an correct) opinion the Tundra is a car with a cargo area. Then again all 150 and most 250 Series trucks are also. The trucks are getting bigger, faster, more powerful, and the frames, suspension, and brakes are getting lighter and engineered for ride, not towing. Yes many can and do pull trailers. I won’t even think of using such a light weight vehicle in today’s modern road conditions of speed, distracted drivers, traffic, poor road conditions, etc. I own the best car hauling equipment you can buy, maintain it to better than factory standards, have more driving and racing experience than most people, and the simple fact is..........

 

trailering a car on modern highway conditions is a dangerous thing at any time, any place, and under any condition. The true fact is 90 percent of the truck and trailers out there are not maintained, hooked up, loaded, and secured properly. I could go on for hours. A few years ago I saw a very expensive rig that was properly set up and maintained suffer a metal fatigue failure, thankfully it was in a parking lot and no one was killed. After driving 3500 Series dually Crew cab trucks for the last thirty years, and going to triple axel trailers for a single car trailer , my next truck will be a 4500 or 5500 Series Machine. I rather be poorer than dead. Tomorrow I will haul a 7200 pound car down into Miami, I will avoid high traffic times, and I am sure several people will pull a stupid maneuver and scare the hell out of me. Normally I would only drive the area around midnight, but tomorrow I have no choice. My best to all, and stay safe trailering. Ed

Edited February 8, 2018 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Padgett, your towing smart, monitoring you temps, and are in the one percent of people who knows what they are doing. It’s dam scary to see what’s going down the road today. Ed

[Tim Wolfe]

I had two blow outs on my toy hauler, the tires were still under warranty. I was told the garage had to send them back to the mfg. The owner of the garage told me that they would say the tires were under inflated and overloaded. He has sold me tires for years and knew that I maintain my tires. Sure enough, the mfg. wouldn't honor the warranty due to overload & under inflation. The garage owner honored their warranty out of his own pocket! I will continue to buy tire from him, just not that brand.

[39BuickEight]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

George, I understand the Jeepster isn’t too heavy, and the Tundras towing. As a shop owner who has done thousands of brake jobs out of my modern shop, and towed antique cars hundreds of thousands of miles, In my humble, (an correct) opinion the Tundra is a car with a cargo area. Then again all 150 and most 250 Series trucks are also. The trucks are getting bigger, faster, more powerful, and the frames, suspension, and brakes are getting lighter and engineered for ride, not towing.

 

Then why do the tow rating also keep increasing?  What is it based on?  I honestly don't know.

 

Personally, I agree for the most part.  I want a big heavy dumb tow vehicle (that's just phrase I use for a heavy duty truck with a big simple motor), not a race car truck.  I don't understand how making a tow vehicle lighter and faster also makes it have a higher tow capacity rating.  Sure the brakes are better I guess, but nothing else seems to be.  People safely towed all over with 150HP engines in heavier trucks for a long time.

 

You should see some of the trailering contraptions here in KY where the few laws we have are never actually enforced.  1/2 ton trucks pulling goosenecks full of hay, Harbor Freight collapsible trailers with $10,000 ATV's on them, you name it.

Edited February 8, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Grimy]

Ed, if you've noticed, for 20 years I've run a F350 dually diesel and triple-axle trailers--because I'm usually hauling Pierce-Arrows.  The OP used her rig to move one Jeepster and one Model A Ford (2,500 lb. vehicles) on separate occasions, IIRC, and the Tundra was IMHO adequate (no better than that) for those tasks.  And while I agree with most of what you say, it seems like you've found "religion" recently in that you used to (at least) consistently run too heavy and too fast--I remember your broken trailer frame.

 

You are on the money when you comment on the hostile and incompetent road environment these days for both trailering and driving pre-war cars.  Out here, urban area drivers are worst: when I return from the Modoc Tour every year, the pucker factor increases dramatically on I-80 at Vacaville with urban/metropolitan area drivers.

[Stude Light]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Towing the car backwards with a rig like that is insane. DO Not put more weight further back with that truck and trailer combination. As I stated before, the rig is marginal at best on flat roads at reasonable speeds for short hauls. 

My suggestion wasn't to put the weight farther back but to move the car forward with it in the reverse direction as she is running out of deck space behind the rear trailer wheels. Maybe not the best thing for a convertible top car due to opposite wind load, but more important for a longer car.  I agree, don't shift more weight back and unload the tongue.  I think a load leveling hitch and keeping a bit more weight on the hitch ball is a much better solution.  A larger trailer and bigger truck would even be better, but sometimes we have to work within our means.

[edinmass]

Stude, the general rule of thumb is to NEVER tow a car on a trailer backwards. I understand your point. Instead of picking on any one person, I was trying to convey the general overall conditions of the light weight tow vehicles and cheap trailers on the market today. George is correct, I have suffered two frame failures on trailers, and they were high end trailers. Neither one of them was overloaded, and the issue was poor metal and welding. We do have a very heavy duty trailer, that we welded another eight hundred pounds of iron on, and we do tend to overload it, be we take fantastic car of it, and don’t run fast when we are heavy. Driving for the conditions is important, often times there are road closures due to accidents. We try and have several days pad on either end of the trip to get home, so we can get off the road if needed. Last Thanksgiving 95 was closed for eight or nine hours on the Wednesday before the holiday, we got the notice from our navigation machine, jumped off the road, and got a room at 2 in the afternoon. We slept from 4 to midnight, and took off in the middle of the night and went on our way bright eyed. Problem is most people can’t travel that way. When you add up accidents, injuries, and deaths related to old cars, it seems about ten to one on the trailer situation causing most of the problems. It never ceases to amaze me with people who have a valuable car on a junk trailer with bald tires and no brakes pulling into the lot of the show. My only motivation posting here is the safety of our members, and the motoring public. My best to all. Es

[padgett]

BTW one of the great improvements this century is good TPMS systems for trailers. A good one will run $200-$300 but will display all trailer tires at one with pressure and temperature and you can set to alarm on high temp and low pressure.

 

It can also provide a crude balancing mechanism. If all tires have equal pressure with an empty trailer but after loading one goes up or with equal pressure one starts running hotter than the other then that axle has more of the load.

 

ps also make sure the trailer tires/wheels are balanced with the TPMS sensor installed.

 

I also have a bathroom scale that can go up to 460 lbs for measuring tongue weight but do not carry anything really heavy.

 

pps that rule of thumb has a caveat: I tow rear and mid engine cars backwards, Fieros on particular. In general you want the heavy end to the front of the trailer.

Edited February 8, 2018 by padgett (see edit history)

[Stude Light]

 

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

My only motivation posting here is the safety of our members, and the motoring public. My best to all. Es

Got it. We can all learn from each other. I find myself looking at how people secure loads and tow a lot more in the last few years.

 

I hate to say it but I think we need some real trailer regulation. I'll just throw out one issue.....trailer brakes. Manufacturer's use those stupid snap connectors on the exposed wiring and non-sealed connectors back to the tow vehicle. Here in MI, it only takes a few trips on the salted roads to compromise the electrical connections and you may have no idea until you need to stop.

 

Electromagnetic drum brakes! Sure, they are cheap but besides the drum brake fad, the electromagnet fad from heating makes it even worse as a loss on the magnet force creates a more substantial loss on the self energizing feature of the drum brake set up. There is no close loop control back to the gain setting.

 

Generally, no ABS. Oh you can buy those add on ABS systems but they are really crude, especially when coupled with electromagnetic drum brakes.

 

Considering that trailer weights are rising and trucks are getter lighter, it's time the new trailer brake systems are addressed.

 

Plenty of other concerns. Sorry about getting away from your OP subject VL.

[victorialynn2]

21 hours ago, Grimy said:

Agree that the Jeepster should not be backwards on the trailer, Ed, but its weight does not exceed 2,600, so the trailer at 2,000 or less plus the Jeepster are well within the specs of the Tundra.  What we don't know is how much additional weight may have been in the Jeepster or in the Tundra's bed.

It was determined that it was less than 300 lbs in the back of the truck. The only stuff in the Jeepster were parts included in its weight. 

 

11 hours ago, edinmass said:

Padgett, your towing smart, monitoring you temps, and are in the one percent of people who knows what they are doing. It’s dam scary to see what’s going down the road today. Ed

Don’t assume I don’t know what I’m doing and am not watching all gauges, mirrors and the load constantly. My father did teach me about all of that. I often went on trips with him as well. He didn’t raise a dummy. 

[victorialynn2]

On 2/7/2018 at 2:14 PM, padgett said:

Palm Trees ? Oregon ?

BTW there is a second reason on modern cars to gear down on grades: on many cars and trucks there is something called Performance Enhancement or PE. This occurs when the throttle is depressed over half way and richens the mixture up a couple of points. MPG is reduced dramatically. If by dropping a gear or two you can pull the grade without going into PE it will help your pocketbook.

 

Ford made a mistake  IMNSHO pairing the EcoBoost 2.7 with the trailer towing package in pickups were many many complaints about poor MPG resulting from too many miles in PE. In that case the Ecoboost 3.5 is a much better choice. (Personally think we will be seeing more of direct injection and boost in a gas engine, is going to replace a lot of diesels).

I moved the load in San Berdino and never had an issue again. 

[victorialynn2]

15 hours ago, Tim Wolfe said:

I had two blow outs on my toy hauler, the tires were still under warranty. I was told the garage had to send them back to the mfg. The owner of the garage told me that they would say the tires were under inflated and overloaded. He has sold me tires for years and knew that I maintain my tires. Sure enough, the mfg. wouldn't honor the warranty due to overload & under inflation. The garage owner honored their warranty out of his own pocket! I will continue to buy tire from him, just not that brand.

I buy tires at America’s tire. I pay a few bucks extra for the insurance. They pay 100% if they can repair it. I haven’t had any issues. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[victorialynn2]

4 hours ago, Stude Light said:

 

Got it. We can all learn from each other. I find myself looking at how people secure loads and tow a lot more in the last few years.

 

I hate to say it but I think we need some real trailer regulation. I'll just throw out one issue.....trailer brakes. Manufacturer's use those stupid snap connectors on the exposed wiring and non-sealed connectors back to the tow vehicle. Here in MI, it only takes a few trips on the salted roads to compromise the electrical connections and you may have no idea until you need to stop.

 

Electromagnetic drum brakes! Sure, they are cheap but besides the drum brake fad, the electromagnet fad from heating makes it even worse as a loss on the magnet force creates a more substantial loss on the self energizing feature of the drum brake set up. There is no close loop control back to the gain setting.

 

Generally, no ABS. Oh you can buy those add on ABS systems but they are really crude, especially when coupled with electromagnetic drum brakes.

 

Considering that trailer weights are rising and trucks are getter lighter, it's time the new trailer brake systems are addressed.

 

Plenty of other concerns. Sorry about getting away from your OP subject VL.

No worries. I am reading all this great info. 

 

And now for a new can of worms. The only other car I may tow is the 63 Spyder. I did a ton of research and this is how I need to load it. My trailer is very heavy duty, all diamond plates metal, brakes and wiring were all redone and inspected before each trip. I WILL have a distribution hitch as I need one for the 20’ camper anyway. This guy has essentially the same trailer and car. He hauls a lot of miles with it.  Many Corvair guys recommend loading it this way. 

[Stude Light]

Okay, for a Corvair, the weight is in the rear and you can't quite tell which is the front of the car anyway, so do you turn that one around?

[victorialynn2]

2 minutes ago, Stude Light said:

Okay, for a Corvair, the weight is in the rear and you can't quite tell which is the front of the car anyway, so do you turn that one around?

I can’t. It a convertible. But the consensus of many corvair Owners is that quarter window should be above the back wheel of the trailer. This is pretty much how I should have loaded all the other cars. 

[Robert Street]

Victoria I am breaking again my self proclaimed promise not to speak out on the towing issue regarding your car moving adventures but....

there are a few items in that Spyder photo that stand out as not great long distance towing procedures.

I applaud you for getting an anti sway and weight distribution system. I strongly recommend getting a load master trailer tongue scale. With weight distribution and equalizer bar systems the trailer tongue weight has to be correct especially on the lighter trucks. 

Do you know a “dealer” in your area that can sell and install such a system. They can install it and explain the tricks of proper adjustment then when you get to Texas you can load the Snyder where it needs to be for the system and hustle home to Oregon 

Robert

[Grimy]

It has been almost 45 years since I owned a Corvair, which I never towed, but the foggy memory says weight distribution is about 35% front, 65% rear--which would have me loading it backwards ON THAT INFO only.

 

Much depends on the configuration of the axles on the trailer you will be using--where is the trailer's CG (Center of Gravity)?  Make sure you have 10% of total weight (trailer + Corvair) on the ball.  A few local test runs would be in order if I were doing it.

[victorialynn2]

Good advice guys. I will do all of this. 

[edinmass]

Loading the Corvair backwards would be a good idea. I like the car, a fun and interesting ride. Glad you went to a weight distributing hitch, much much safer. Many ladies I know wouldn’t even dream about driving any truck and trailer combination, you got game! Please take your time and stay safe. All my best, Ed. 

[victorialynn2]

Do you guys ever wonder if AACA pays me to post questions and keep you all engaged? ?

 

My entire story could could all be a fantasy in my head. Lol. (I wish!)

Edited February 9, 2018 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[charlier]

1 hour ago, Robert Street said:

Victoria I am breaking again my self proclaimed promise not to speak out on the towing issue regarding your car moving adventures but....

there are a few items in that Spyder photo that stand out as not great long distance towing procedures.

I applaud you for getting an anti sway and weight distribution system. I strongly recommend getting a load master trailer tongue scale. With weight distribution and equalizer bar systems the trailer tongue weight has to be correct especially on the lighter trucks. 

Do you know a “dealer” in your area that can sell and install such a system. They can install it and explain the tricks of proper adjustment then when you get to Texas you can load the Snyder where it needs to be for the system and hustle home to Oregon 

Robert

 

VL, you might also take a look at the Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale  as well.  I have the 0 to 1000 lb scale which fits my needs given the Tundra's  maximum tongue weight. If your future plans include a larger truck and trailer then you should consider a tongue scale with 0-2000 lb capabilities.

 

Charlie

[Stude Light]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Loading the Corvair backwards would be a good idea.

Ed, I feel vindicated from my earlier suggestion 

[padgett]

Or for those with smaller trailers, this may work (in the bathroom too.

[edinmass]

Stude.......backwards car design requires backwards logic.......... although I am a pre war guy, I have been flirting with buying a Corvair instead of a street bike for Southern Florida. I can’t find a example that is very well done, or a almost perfect original. I’m sure one will pop up sooner or later. 

[victorialynn2]

Guys I won’t tow it backwards. It would ruin a convertible. Plus the consensus of most Corvair guys is it’s not a good idea for any of them. I understand the logic, but the guys who tow them for the most part don’t. I also know several guys who have towed them long distances with 16 foot trailers with a dovetail like mine with no issues facing forward. Of course the hitch will be helpful but some don’t even have that. (I will). 

Edited February 9, 2018 by victorialynn2 (see edit history)

[padgett]

Used to tow my split window sdrawkcab but it was 50/50 and needed to be able to open the door on the trailer to get out.

[Marty Roth]

23 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Stude.......backwards car design requires backwards logic.......... although I am a pre war guy, I have been flirting with buying a Corvair instead of a street bike for Southern Florida. I can’t find a example that is very well done, or a almost perfect original. I’m sure one will pop up sooner or later. 

 

Ed, my wife wants me to sell the '65 Monza convertible we bought a couple of years ago, but I'm resisting. 

We can talk here at Philly about benefits of Corvair - I've had several

[Stude Light]

VL,

You'll need to pull it way forward to get the hitch load needed. 

 

Another suggestion...I live out in the sticks in farm country.  My local elevator is really nice about letting me use their scales for 15 or 20 minutes occasionally.  In the past I have used them to verify trailer loading by putting the entire rig (truck and trailer) on the scales, then just the trailer (unhooked), then just the trailer axles and then only the trailer rear axle.  From that you can verify tongue load and front vs rear axle balance. Usually only takes two tries to get it dialed in really close.   I've done this for a car I haul often, then just marked the correct location for future hauls.

 

[mike6024]

It looks like if that Corvair were towed backwards air would be directed under the rear bumper, causing some lift.

 

2 hours ago, Stude Light said:

for a Corvair, the weight is in the rear and you can't quite tell which is the front of the car anyway,

 

 but not symmetrical aerodynamically. 

 

[victorialynn2]

For those of you who worry about getting off topic, please don’t. I learn so much from your comments. 

[padgett]

First the toad should be in the slipstream of the TV so does not get the full speed wind, more turbulence. Second the trailer is more about balance than forward/backward and can do that with a good scale on the tongue. Equally important with a tandem is to have the hitch at the right height.

 

I firmly believe in a trailer TPMS but went for years just stopping every 50-100 miles and feeling the tread temp by hand. A hot tire meant either under inflated, overloaded, or failing. I always carry a spare. Finally with ST tires I do not drive over 65. Do agree the best time for an 8 hour trip like Atlanta is after 10pm. Finally an intelligent progressive brake controller like the Tekonsha Prodigy line (I have a P2) makes life a lot easier and will warn you if there is a bad connection.