Overdrive Information 38 Buick...

[philipj]

Hello there,

 

I have managed to obtain photos of a working overdrive from someone with a 38 Special... Does anyone have any information on these units? How reliable are they?  Lastly, does this type of modification adds or detracts value to the car? Thank you.

 

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by philipj
Upside down.. (see edit history)

[philipj]

Don't know how these got upside down! they were not that way on my file... Grrrr.!!

[philipj]

[Spinneyhill]

I don't know how Buick set them up, but that lever beside the gear lever looks like a bodge. I am somewhat familiar with them in Studebakers. The "cutout" is a knob on the dash. You pull it out to lock overdrive (and freewheeling) out, allowing you to reverse and have direct drive.

 

In the Stude, there is a different diff. ratio and shorter driveshaft when an O/D is fitted. There is a separate wiring loom, a kickdown switch and a relay to mount. Yours, of course, would be a bit more complicated with the torque tube arrangement.

 

An O/D was a extra cost option. What does your research show about the extra value of cars with options?

[Mark Shaw]

If you sell it to a driver, it enhances the value. 

 

If you sell it to a car show person, it devalues the car if it cannot be documented as a Buick factory option.

[Jack Worstell]

We have one in our 1937 Special....the modification was done by Lloyd Young  of near Columbus Ohio.     It works great except there is no speedometer or governor ( Lloyd used an alternate control scheme which doesn't use a governor. )

 

However...Lloyd passed away a few weeks ago.      I don;t know of anyone else who might provide this service....the work needed is substantial because of the torque tube.

 

Jack Worstell 

[philipj]

Very interesting, I had no idea Buick offered these as an option... The set up does not look too bad at all. I am told that to engage you double clutch, pull the lever backwards and voila! the overdrive is on..:)

[Bob Engle]

I don't believe it is a Buick option.  It is a LLOYD YOUNG  conversion unit.  I recently picked up a 1932 50  series differential with  the same unit installed in the torque  tube.  I am interested in any  literature for  lubrication, mantenance, set up  and mechanical and solenoid  setup.  I have the cables for mechanical operations and an electrical setup minus the solenoid valve.  

Bob Engle

[Spinneyhill]

MoToR's Manual 1947 does NOT show an overdrive for 1938 Buick.

 

There was a semi-automatic transmission offered in 1938. For adjustment and repair, it says to see the Oldsmobile section. "Construction is the same and all the instructions will apply to the four-speed transmission as used in Buick."

 

The photos you show are not the semi-automatic transmission.

 

Based on what I am reading, that is an aftermarket fitting. See Bob Engle's comments above.

 

The o/d unit you show looks a bit like about 1939 or so BW o/d. It has no governor, just a kick-down solenoid (the cylinder with wires to it). The lever is a kludge. They usually have a knob on the dash to pull out to lock o/d out. Normal position for the knob is IN, with o/d available. There is a freewheeling unit in the rear of it. I posted a bit of information about these as fitted to Chryslers somewhere - either Technical or a Chrysler fora.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Bob Engle]

Here's photos of the 1932 50 series differential with the OD installed.

[Bloo]

Overdrive is not an original option on any GM cars of the era as far as I know. It originated at Chrysler, and GM probably didn't want to pay royalties. Chrysler products, Studebaker, Nash, etc. used them.

 

If  you look at any GM shop manual of the era, the engineers were in a completely different mindset. There are graphs and or charts that show horsepower and torque vs speed. They obviously were trying to make the best use of limited power and torque in high gear, in other words maximum horsepower developed at the highest speed the car would likely be capable of. This is reasonable because drivers of the era expected and wanted to just leave the car in high gear at whatever speed they were driving at. A "cruising gear" isn't an idea that fits with this mindset. The shop manual for my 1936 Pontiac says (paraphrased) "multiple studies have shown most drivers operate their cars at about 35 or 40 miles per hour". The roads of the time did not support high speeds for long distances, and a good engine should be able to operate up near it's horsepower peak for short stretches if necessary. There were no freeways.

 

Another thing, overdrives of that style were part of a Borg Warner transmission, so that the reverse lockout will work, and in the mid 30s, the overdrive wasn't even a separate case casting. GM would have had to buy transmissions from Borg Warner rather than using their own.

 

If you read old threads, you will see that EVERY new Special owner complains about the 4.44:1 gears. If you intend to drive it at all, you want the overdrive. Otherwise get a Century or Roadmaster.

 

Lloyd Young, who made most of these Borg-Warner overdrive conversions for Buicks recently passed away. It was the most affordable option as far as I know. In this time of uncertainty, I would budget about $6000 to do something about the gears if you are going to get a Special. Maybe you will get by a lot cheaper, but I wouldn't count on it.

[MCHinson]

4 hours ago, philipj said:

Very interesting, I had no idea Buick offered these as an option... 

They did not.

[philipj]

Thank you for sharing the details, it is a wealth of information... Anyone taking over Lloyd Young's work? A real catastrophe that these people pass on along with all their knowledge and experience and there is no one to fill the void.. 

I am still hoping to find a decent Century  but the 18-20K limit makes it a real challenge.. If I end up with a Special I will be have to be content with 50/55 mph cruising speed I guess..

[suchan]

17 hours ago, philipj said:

Thank you for sharing the details, it is a wealth of information... Anyone taking over Lloyd Young's work? A real catastrophe that these people pass on along with all their knowledge and experience and there is no one to fill the void.. 

I am still hoping to find a decent Century  but the 18-20K limit makes it a real challenge.. If I end up with a Special I will be have to be content with 50/55 mph cruising speed I guess..

A lower cost, but less dramatic improvement would be to put taller tires on a Special. I had a '38 with whitewall-cladded truck tires mounted by a previous owner that were the radial equivalent of 7.00x16's (215/85x16). Picks up a few mph. I've heard of owners mounting 7.50x16's, too, but that seems a little tight. You'd need some real skinny 7.50's to not rub on the wheel wells when making sharp turns.

[philipj]

I would be curious to see photos of the cars with the bigger tires... Can you still use the original hubcaps?

[Guest]

philipj...How would bigger tires affect the hubcaps.  You would use the same wheels, just use an 800x? rather than a 700x? for example.  Also if one checks often there is up to 2" difference in height between brands of the same tire size. 

Edited January 29, 2018 by Guest (see edit history)

[37buick]

Bob Engle :  was   that ( on the pictures ) done  by the  Late Loyd Young ?

[Matt Harwood]

Gear Vendors. It's what I would have done if I were doing my overdrive unit again (I have a Lloyd Young unit in my '29 Cadillac). Gear Vendors is bulletproof reliable, same degree of difficulty for installation in a torque tube but the Gear Vendors unit has provisions for torque tube installation whereas Lloyd was making his own adapter castings. You'll need a good machine shop to put it together but it will totally transform the car and make it very usable in today's world. Yes, you'll probably spend $4000-5000 to make it happen, but the car goes from a teeth-gritting, white-knuckle experience at 50 MPH to a pleasing 60-65 MPH cruiser that's quiet and cool. Worth every penny, even if you can't quite tell from this side of the equation. I can guarantee you will not regret spending the money.

[37buick]

Thats a BIIIIG investment  Matt !    Loyds was  less then  half  of  that ,  but  of course is an option .

   I  should  say :   thats  a  big  " single  investment < ,".  As  much  ( or  close to )  as  doing  the  engine  or  even bodywork .

Edited February 1, 2018 by 37buick (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Yes, I totally understand it's a big chunk, both in terms of "do I really need an overdrive?" and in terms of "what I can do that's cheaper than Gear Vendors?"

 

The answer is not clear-cut. However, as someone pointed out, every single person who buys a Buick Special, particularly a late-30s Special, comes to this message board and asks what they can do to make it cruise better at reasonable speeds. They either think the cars are defective or are worried about breaking it when they go more than 50 MPH. And truthfully, that's not an unreasonable concern. They sound VERY busy at even moderate speeds because they are geared to be driven around town at 35-40 MPH with minimal shifting. They do that really well. And yes, they're just fine at 50-55 MPH, you aren't hurting them. But it SOUNDS like you're hurting them and every time you drive it at those speeds, you'll be gritting your teeth over it. You'll get stressed out trying to keep up with traffic because you'll fee like you're abusing the hardware. It will be VERY frustrating. It's normal, but frustrating. I would want to get rid of that frustration before I would want shiny paint. But that's up to you--do you drive or show the car? If you're a driver, then an overdrive will make the car an absolute joy that will cruise at highway speeds without sounding busy and without you becoming a rolling road block. Or you can have shiny paint and worry about someone hitting your shiny paint because you're going 10-20 MPH slower than traffic. I put an overdrive in my '29 Cadillac and while it was very problematic, it totally transformed the car to the point where I had no problems driving it hundreds of miles in a day. It makes a real difference that you probably can't understand from where you're sitting right now simply looking at spending money. Buy the car, drive it for a while, and then think about it. You'll see...

 

As far as which overdrive to buy, I'm a fan of Gear Vendors simply because they don't break. I have a Lloyd Young overdrive in my Cadillac, and yes, it was quite a bit cheaper (I think I was still at about $3500 once I was done installing it). However, it has free-wheeling, which is flat-out terrifying. And even though it was cheaper to install, I've pulled it out of the car twice and sent it back to Lloyd for rebuilding and it still doesn't work very well. Lloyd rebuilt it for free each time, which I appreciated, but it's sill about $1000 to pull the rear end and torque tube out, disassemble everything, put it back together, and put it back in the car, and it was still broken because the unit itself is defective and can't be fixed. Even on day one, the electrics failed and 6V solenoids are $250 each. I went through three of them over the five or six years I've had the overdrive. Eventually I gave up and reverse-engineered a purely mechanical solution that eliminates the solenoid but is very clunky to use. It's not really fun or easy. So while it was a bit cheaper up front, adding all the other nonsense, I'm at about $7000 on my overdrive and it still doesn't work very well and I'm loathe to even go on drives where I'll be tempted to use it. It's just going to break again and now I have no recourse except to learn to rebuild it myself. And while I'm sure my particular overdrive gearbox is the problem rather than Lloyd's workmanship, I'm stuck with it because Lloyd told me that each installation is unique, so another B-W overdrive box won't work in my car. I'd need another 1929 Cadillac torque tube to retrofit another one or, preferably, a Gear Vendors. Of course, all this is academic because Lloyd just passed away.

 

And I think it is VERY important to note that Lloyd was a first-rate person and always helped me when I needed help and stepped up to repair my overdrive every time. He was first class all the way and I don't want anyone to think I'm complaining about Lloyd Young, the man.

 

Nevertheless, I desperately wish I had done Gear Vendors in the first place. It wouldn't have had any of these problems. Yes, the Gear Vendors would have cost more up front but in the long run, I would have been way ahead today.

 

It's a lesson I need to keep learning--spend more up front and it usually works out better in the long run.

[Bloo]

Matt mentioned Gear Vendors having provisions for torque tubes, while Lloyd's were welded. I don't think that is quite right. One thing that drove me away from Gear Vendors was the pictures I saw on the Internet of the torque tube bracketry. It looked really Rube Goldberg to me. Maybe they have changed that by now. What I saw (at the back) was a bracket that attached to some bolts at the bottom, and had some flying brackets going up over the top. The only exception I saw was a Rolls Royce installation, and I believe those were custom castings. Gear Vendors overdrive owners please correct me if this is wrong.

 

The Gear Vendors is the overdrive design that was once called a Laycock. It was used in a bunch of British cars and in Volvos. All you need to do is feed it 12v (or 6v I suppose) to shift it. It can be completely invisible from inside the car.

 

Lloyds, as I understand it were just the Borg warner overdrive that was found on the back of Borg Warner 3 speeds in the 40s, 50s and 60s in Ramblers, Fords, Studebakers and so on. This system is the greatest thing EVER when still hanging on the transmission it came on, and with the electrics it came with. It is exactly what a mid 30s car needs. 

 

Either one of these, as I understand it, will break if you leave it engaged in reverse (can any owners confirm or deny this?). I don't know how Lloyd handled this. I suspect you had to remember to take it out every time. When it was on the Borg Warner transmission an internal linkage handled it automatically. The Laycock (like Gear Vendors) overdrive in a Volvo just had an electrical switch on the transmission to take it out of overdrive in reverse. This sounds easier to replicate, but might not be possible on every car.

 

There are also Mitchell overdrives. These are supplied as torque-tube kits for Model A Fords and early V8 fords. There is also a kit for open driveline cars. Putting one of these in some other torque tube (like a Buick) is completely unsupported by Mitchell. You could probably buy one outright, and engineer and machine your own stuff to get it in the torque tube, make a shifter, etc. If you have access to a machine shop and know how to use a lathe and a mill you might beat Gear Vendors price this way, otherwise I doubt it. The Mitchell is not a planetary setup like the other two. It is a real 2-speed transmission with synchromesh. It does not care if you are in reverse or not. It isn't invisible though, you will either have a second gearlever coming out of the floor, or a cable under the dash, or a cable coming up the shifter.

 

If I am not mistaken, a mid 30s Buick torque tube Is riveted on like a Chevrolet. This means the differential case and pinion will have to come out. In the 30s GM owned New Departure, and they used ball bearings in almost everything. This includes differentials. These bearings will be bad, and probably out of production. Maybe for enough money some obsolete bearing vendor can help. At least you caught it before it destroyed the ring and pinion.... or did you? Is your ring gear riveted on? The one in my Pontiac is, as are many old GM ring gears. Can someone in your area rivet a ring gear? If not, I know of a guy in Seattle who can do it. I wonder what it costs to ship a differential case to Seattle? All these costs are above and beyond the overdrive.

 

Guys, don't kid yourselves. This is not cheap.

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Bloo (see edit history)

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

I had Lloyd build my overdrive unit and I installed it myself. I wrote many pages with pictures on the overdrive including the speeds and rpms with various size tires for the pre war Buick forum. We have driven our car over 4000 miles in town and on the freeways with no mechanical problems. I replaced the electric overdrive solenoid with a newly manufactured one shortly after I completed the install as the original one kept giving me problems. No trouble at all since then. There is another guy who rebuilds the old BW overdrives and sells BW overdrive parts, he can be found by Google searches or I have his info somewhere if someone can't find it any other way. I love driving our car with the overdrive and its a period correct accessory that could have been installed by an independent shop back in 38. It was not a Buick factory option. To my knowledge Buick dealers did not install one either but it could have been done by a guy like Lloyd. It was available in other makes in 38. Gear Vendor overdrives have a different ratio then the BW overdrives and will NOT lower the engine rpm's as much as the BW overdrive units do. If you want to drive a 38 Special in todays traffic and on freeways for any appreciable distance an overdrive is the no compromise way to do it. 

 

 

[Bob Engle]

To 37 Buick:

 

I bought the 1932 Buick 50 series rear end assembly and was told by the seller that LLoyd Young did the conversion work.  I am still looking for information on operating instructions, lubrication and maintenance info as well as linkage hookup.  

Bob Engle

[Jack Worstell]

Bob      the OD pamphlet  published by Warner Gear division says

     use SAE 40 wt engine oil

     straight  mineral oil of the transmission type SAE No 80 also is OK

     DON'T use hypoid axle  type lubricant

 

I don;t completely understand engine oil vs transmission oil  distinction....but this is what Warner Gear says.

 

For our OD unit ( in our 1937 Special ) Lloyd pulled out the governor and the speedometer driven gear ( I think this was SOP for him ??)

 

The factory control scheme depended on the governor....so Lloyd came up with an alternate control scheme.  His method is clever and this is what we have in our OD...it works very well.    But eventually we plan to add the governor back  ...and add a little more wiring...and go back to the factory control set-up.  We think it will be more convenient to have a governor control set-up......a   "nice-to-have".

 

If you have no governor

   Be careful not to start out in low gear with the solenoid engaged...this might  damage the OD unit

   Be careful not to back up with the solenoid engaged...this might damage the OD unit.

   it will be possible to "free-wheel"  above   27mph  ( 27 mph is the 'set-point" for a governor )........this could get dicey from a safety standpoint.

 

Lloyd's set-up incorporates a clever  "clutch switch"  and this makes it very unlikely to start-out  in low gear or in reverse with the solenoid engaged...but even so

this is something to be aware of...it can't be much fun to pull out the OD unit to replace out the planetary gear set

 

Like others have said....an OD works wonders for an old car with a high ( numerically ) rear end ratio.........such as the 4.44 in our 1937 Special..   We are happy with the Lloyd Young OD

 

Jack Worstell    jlwmaster@aol.com

     

[Matt Harwood]

This is a Gear Vendors torque tube installation:

 

 

Sometimes guys who do an open driveshaft install hang it from hokey brackets, but in a torque tube installation, it must necessarily be in-line with the torque tube and be self-supporting. That sucker up there looks pretty robust, no?

 

Here's my '29 Cadillac torque tube with the Borg-Warner overdrive in it and it looks more or less the same, although the solenoid ends up VERY close to the exhaust. I installed extensive heat shielding to try to keep it alive and it seemed to help a little bit.

 

 

One of the other problems is that the Borg-Warner only holds like 4 PINTS (not quarts) of oil. Mine is leaky as hell and nobody could ever solve that particular problem--it is the single most leaky part of my ancient Cadillac. So every time I go out for a drive, I need to make sure I have it topped off properly. I'm probably going to rig up some kind of filler tube that's accessible from up top so I don't have to jack the car up every time and crawl under there and fill it up (this is why I don't drive the Cadillac very much anymore and use the '41 Limited almost exclusively--the overdrive has become a major PITA). If you have a Borg-Warner overdrive on your car now, I suggest you climb under there ASAP and top it off. It's probably low.

 

I think part of the problem with the B-W unit is that it wasn't meant for giant, heavy cars like my Cadillac and as Bloo mentions, it's jury-rigged to work anywhere other than where it was designed to work. Lloyd's electrical system uses a micro-switch on the clutch pedal to kick it out of overdrive, so you won't accidentally leave it in overdrive when shifting into reverse. That's clever. However, you still need to take it out of free-wheeling or else nothing will happen. It won't hurt anything, but the clutch in the overdrive won't work in reverse.

 

As I said, do it right the first time and you'll have no worries like this. Spend the money and you won't have regrets.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[Jack Worstell]

Matt....if the oil leak problem went away and the solenoid was insulated from heat....then  would you have a reliable unit ?

 

I'm interested in your experience because we have a recently installed BW overdrive in our 1937 Special.....and I'd like to be able to anticipate any problems that may be coming down the road

 

Jack Worstell

 

 

[Matt Harwood]

4 hours ago, Jack Worstell said:

Matt....if the oil leak problem went away and the solenoid was insulated from heat....then  would you have a reliable unit ?

 

I'm interested in your experience because we have a recently installed BW overdrive in our 1937 Special.....and I'd like to be able to anticipate any problems that may be coming down the road

 

Jack Worstell

 

 

 

To be honest, the only explanation anyone has ever offered, including Lloyd, is that I just got a bum unit. Some of my early problems were related to heat soak on the solenoid and the leaking, but there are internal issues that Lloyd was never able to solve. And as I said, once you have a particular overdrive installed, you apparently can't swap it out for another one--you're stuck with it. That's because Lloyd's units were custom fitted and welded into place. He rebuilt it three times and it still leaks like a sieve and the overdrive only engages about 60% of the time. When it fails to engage, I have to pull over and come to a complete stop, take it out of Free-Wheeling, then drive for a while while it cools off and then try again in a few miles (and if it fails again, pull over and start over once again). Every time I use it, I know it's a gamble and sooner or later it will fail completely and leave me with an immobile hunk of Cadillac that needs unobtainium parts and cubic dollars to repair. I don't use the overdrive and as a result, I drive the car far, far less than I used to and want to (which should tell you just how much the overdrive changes the car's personality). I'll go around town where I don't need it, but no more long road trips with it or cruising on 45-55 MPH back roads. Just around town now. It makes me bitter.

 

Keeping the solenoid cool (I even considered welding cooling fins on mine and making an air scoop to ram cool air over it as I drove) will help. Keep it topped up with fluid at all times, that will help a lot. But there are some overdrives that are just inherently bad and the only explanation I ever got was that there was just something defective about mine and it was probably defective even when it was new and likely gave the original Ford (or whatever) dealer fits. I don't believe mine can be made reliable. I've eliminated the electrical parts, including the solenoid, and that should help, but I still don't trust it one bit and it's cumbersome to use now. Others have had better experiences with their Lloyd Young units, so I know it is just my particular gearbox, but that doesn't make me wish I had gone with Gear Vendors any less and it doesn't change my advice--there's a chance someone else's B-W unit could be borked like mine and when presented with the chance to skip it for something else more reliable, I would take it.

 

Keeping the fluid full is paramount since there's so little in there and using the right stuff is equally important. I'll have to check and see what I use, but it's available from NAPA and is the stuff Lloyd recommended.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[DonMicheletti]

I wonder.

If you fill the unit full and then it gets hot when driving, the oil will expand and come out somewhere. Could that be a reason for your leaking?

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, DonMicheletti said:

I wonder.

If you fill the unit full and then it gets hot when driving, the oil will expand and come out somewhere. Could that be a reason for your leaking?

 

No, it's all on the floor. I can see it. I actually jack the car up as high as I can on the right side so that when I fill it, it's on an angle and holds a bit more fluid. On an average weekend tour, I'll lose perhaps half of it as the oil heats up and leaks out from the front and rear seals. Lloyd kept putting new seals in and they keep not sealing. He thinks there's a burr somewhere in there that keeps them from fully seating, but he couldn't find it and correct it. Perhaps a casting defect.

 

Like I said, I'll probably just put a filler tube on it that's someplace convenient and fill it up every time I stop for gas.

[mcdarrunt]

I totally agree that an OD changes one from a town only ride to a go anywhere cruiser. My 37 came with 4.44 rear gearing and when I had to be out on the highway I was watching the rear view mirror more than looking out the windshield and hoping some nut closing in on my rear bumper wasn't texting or on an Iphone. With the OD and 4.11 gearing we have made a lap of America and think nothing of loading up for a thousand mile trip. My next change will be to a PCV system on the straight 8 as breathing in particle laden air makes the oil black in a thousand miles.

[Spinneyhill]

On 2/02/2018 at 6:08 PM, Bloo said:

Either one of these, as I understand it, will break if you leave it engaged in reverse

Um, not the '30s ones. It just won't go backwards because of the freewheeling unit on the back. Disengaging the o/d actually moves a locking system back to lock up the freewheel unit. I have a 1939 Studebaker with a BW o/d in it. This year did not have the governor, just the kickdown.

 

The freewheeling unit consists of a multi-sided inner section (a set of ramps) with a set of rollers in a cage on the outside, inside a larger bell shaped part. When the engine is driving, the rollers roll up the tapers and lock in the inside of the bell shaped piece connected to or that is the rear pinion. When the engine slows and the drive shaft is driving it, the rollers roll down and release the bell, so the engine idles while the drive shaft continues at road speed. Clearly, to go backwards this must be locked.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Spinneyhill]

I am surprised your o/d is heating up. Mine was stuffed and I couldn't touch it after a run. After a full overhaul, it runs cool enough to keep my hand on at speed.

 

The problem I had was mainly the planetary gears. The pins they run on were worn barrel shaped and the needle bearings were all barrel shaped with a tendency to be square rather than round. And of course I could not buy individual needles, I had to replace them with full complement caged needle bearings. The needles are about an eighth of an inch shorter so the gears will start to rock earlier in their wear life. In addition, there was a big bronze piece (I can't remember what it was, something to do with the sun gear I think) that was worn badly. Everything was really badly worn and filthy when I bit the bullet and got into it. The main reason I took it apart was that something in the freewheeling unit fell off and it would not work. A bolt in the rear of the mainshaft had come undone. I am afraid this is all a bit vague: it is 25 years since I was in there.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Matt, we have been lucky with ours as it doesn't leak at all. I do check it from time to time but it hasn't needed any between complete drains. I drain it and put new in it each year along with the trans and the rear axle. I just take a day and do everything under the car. I like the Gear Vendors OD also and have one in a 1978 Ford F150 but it does not drop the rpms as much as the BW does. 

 

[Wisebri24]

I have a 1941 Studebaker - R10 Borg Warner Overdrive set up in my torque tube on my 1935 Chevy. Driving on the highway with 4:11 gears and a 83 year old 207 engine was not an option. I use it only after 3rd gear and it reduces my rpm's by 30%. I use a switch on my clutch pedal to disengage the o/d's electric so I cannot back up in overdrive. 

It took quite some time to engineer and install the unit myself in a spare rear end and torque tube. Not for the weak hearted but highly recommended. Anyone with questions or wanting to tackle this themselves, I would share advise/knowledge from my experience.

I am still in search of a spare o/d housing R10B-1G or R10B-1R if anyone knows of one. 

[Jack Worstell]

Wisebri24...is your unit a R10B 1G   or  r10B1R       or R10X XX     ??

 

For a spare housing...Jim Nelson might be able to give you a lead.............

 

Jack Worstell         jlwmaster@aol.com

[Wisebri24]

Mine is a R10B-1R. My research leads me to believe the R10B-1G

has the same case.

[LAS VEGAS DAVE]

Our BW overdrive with the newly manufactured 6 volt solenoid has been trouble free for over 4000 miles. No leaks or strange noises, never a problem engaging or staying in gear or disengaging. If I had not installed the BW overdrive in our car I would have sold it. As it is now I think we will have this car for many years. I live where you pretty much have to use freeways from time to time and without the overdrive it was no fun to drive over 55 miles per hour.

 

[Mark Shaw]

The latest Skinned Knuckles magazine has some excellent information on various overdrives.

[Jim Nelson]

I have a '38' special with Lloyds BW O/D.   I love it.  Since Lloyd has passed,  the machinist who did the work for Lloyd is still doing the units. Glen has done several already.   He is charging $1875 for the modification.  You do frt. in / out.    Glen changed Lloyd's phone number in Hemings to his phone number.   You send him the third member with the torque tube attached and he modifies it and sends it back to you   If it needs new pinion bearings,  he gets them and replaces them.  BTW, The pinion bearings are still available.   They are unique Hyatt bearings up until I think the '1940'  special  when Buick changed the torque tube to a two piece configuration.  I do not know the newer bearings size but the part number changed.   Bob's Automobilia has them.   Olcar Bearings co.  has them also.   George (at Olcar) will send them to you with the bill.  Send him a check.   Great guy.   I think Lloyd used him as needed.  Being a bearing guy  (had my own shop for 18 years) I would like to see the bearings in the 40 and later pinion shaft.   General Motors made their own bearing to fit what they needed.   The back roller bearing had a larger outer race so it would allow you to remove the drive train assembly out the back.   See your Service Manual on how to remove it.    I changed the solenoid over to the new units available from  (brain fade)  but now I use Lloyds as a spare when I take trips.   Ya, I had one dump and had to drive back in regular 3 'd gear.   Boy that was enlightening.  So a  spare is always in the trunk on trips.   I opened one from Lloyds and all there is, is a small coil and contact point that can get yucky and stop working.  The new units are the only way.    Rebuilding Lloyds O/D units require you to only change the guts for a major rebuild.  The case with the flanges stay the same.  That part is custom.   As Lloyd told me, any place that can get the parts, can rebuild the O/D.    Yes, I had a failure.   I was doing a pre-trip check before I hit the road.  Found a bearing that was slowly trashing.   I took it to Lloyds and he rebuilt it right then.  Long story - like new now.   Lloyds family (?) will be providing parts for some time to come to use up what Lloyd had stashed away, (a bunch),   So with Glen continuing the "Lloyd's style"  O/D,  we are in good shape.  I cruise 65 /70, 2350 - 2400 rpm.

 

 

[Jim Nelson]

BTW,  Lloyd just filled the OD's with rear end gear oil.   You remove both side mounted plugs on the pax side of the unit.  The upper plug has a vent tube attached to it and was hung over the unit to the drivers side.  Remove that unit and the lower plug.   You must fill thru the upper plug and look for the oil to start coming out the lower plug hole.  Then you replace both plugs and the vent.  Lloyd said if you did not use that sequence, you did not get lubrication to a point higher than the lower plug and things would break.   TIbit,  the output shaft bearing came in two versions.  Single bearing and dual bearing.   You could not tell until you opened it up.  My failure caused questions as my failure was the inner bearing.   His experience was that the outer shaft bearing was the one that failed, not the inner one.    This was back  in August  '17'.