New Youtube Clip

[epriv]

Toranado / Riviera.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9lQgRC37xQ

 

[60FlatTop]

I noticed that Streng Oldsmobile dealer tag over the taillight right away. Here is my '56 Holiday sitting in front of the Streng store around 1990, my daily driver.

 

Main St., Buffalo, the Tinney Cadillac lot is to the left. And that should ring a bell for all the Pierce-Arrow guys.

Bernie

[slosteve]

Personally, I preferred the Eldo' over the Toronado;

 

 

 

[Seafoam65]

                thanks for posting....those are amazing cars.

[RivNut]

Wonder what the pucker factor is driving on 50 year old tires?

[65VerdeGS]

Yes, I too love those '67-'68 Eldorados.  They cheapened the car considerably in 69-70 (plastic everywhere, lower build quality. etc.) , so the first two years are the best of the 1st gen FWD Eldos.  

 

I owned a '68 Eldo for 21 years.  Another Bill Mitchell design and a masterpiece IMHO.  Oh, but that car was BIG.  It had the largest one-piece rear quarter panel ever made.  The hood also is among the very biggest.  The knife-edge styling is remarkable, and required new technology to make such crisp lines in metal.  The rear "diamond back' window was another first.  Cadillac waited a year after the introduction of the Toronado to release their version of the car.  It was over-engineered, with massive front-wheel-drive components.  

 

Now the downside - this is one large car, around 4,700 lbs.  Even though the '68 had front discs, it could be a bear to stop straight in a hurry.  I quickly learned not to tail gate in this car.  Prodigious thirst - in the single digits.  Visibility out back not so good, but always enjoyed seeing those impressive and unique "batmobile' rear fenders.  And, with FWD there was no snow storm that would stop this Caddy!

 

I must say the 1st Gen Rivieras are much more enjoyable to drive: not too bulky, stunning looks, startling performance, better build quality, and competent handling and braking.  But, those FWD Eldos sure are handsome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RivNut]

The 2nd generation Riviera and the 1st generation Toronado were built on the same platform. Both cars had the same wheelbase and overall length.

[Chimera]

Man, two great cars. Particularly the shadow turquoise Toronado (using the Riviera name because it’s cooler). Best classic color IMO. I think they really displayed the rolling speedo much better in the toronado. They really screwed up however, because they almost named the Toronado...Raven. How cool would that have been?! The Low mike green mist is nice, but standard interior and no air conditioning? Would rather have delux interior with a few more miles.

[Hazdaz]

Super cool video.  Loved watching it, but at the same time it makes me sad because you can start getting hints of the impending doom coming of the so-called Malaise Era that's just a few short years away for the auto industry. 

[Rivman]

5 hours ago, RivNut said:

Wonder what the pucker factor is driving on 50 year old tires?

 

I would bet none at all ... At what looks like between 20 & 30 MPH maybe, on what appear to be perfectly smooth streets, not highways or any high speed. Yes, something could still happen to be sure, but at that low of a speed would it be catastrophic?

 

At least they weren't taking pictures from the drivers seat, right!

[RivNut]

15 minutes ago, Rivman said:

but at that low of a speed would it be catastrophic

In a 10,000 mile 1966. Probably so.

 

16 minutes ago, Rivman said:

At least they weren't taking pictures from the drivers seat, right!

RIGHT!, But Dennis Gage was talking to the camera in the car next to him. ☺

[Rivman]

12 minutes ago, RivNut said:

In a 10,000 mile 1966. Probably so.

 

The '66 Toro only had 1,200 mile though, it was the '67 Riv that was at 11,000 or so.

[RivNut]

2 minutes ago, Rivman said:

 

The '66 Toro only had 1,200 mile though, it was the '67 Riv that was at 11,000 or so.

Right, thanks for the correction.

[1965rivgs]

I cringe every time I see a set of `50`s wide whtewall baloon tires on a `60`s car...ESPECIALLY on a class act like a `67 Eldo! That is AWFUL!

Tom

Edited January 24, 2018 by 1965rivgs (see edit history)

[jsgun]

4 hours ago, RivNut said:

The 2nd generation Riviera and the 1st generation Toronado were built on the same platform. Both cars had the same wheelbase and overall length.

I remember reading somewhere that for a brief time, GM was considering giving the Riviera the FWD drivetrain too.

[PWB]

Almost criminal to see that Riviera without a strato. The Toronado outshined due to that plain interior.

 The owner also has a small museum here in my town. Perhaps I should donate my strato?

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by PWB (see edit history)

[telriv]

I remember one time Bill Mitchell brought what was like a '64 Riv. into the shop I was working at for an oil change. I don't know if he had a vacation home in the town in Ct. where I worked or had a friend he was visiting. At the time, early 60's, I didn't know who he was just that it was a 1st. gen Riv, I was interested as MY '64 RIV. would be parked out front. He asked who car it was out front & beyond that we didn't have ANY conversation. I brought the car into the shop. It sounded diff. Set it up on the lift. The frame set-up was WAY diff. than my Riv.  Got it up in the air & to my surprise it was MUCH diff. than my Riv. being FWD. & all. Did the oil change & never did see when the car was picked up to ask questions. Could have been the TORO in disguise????

 

 

Tom T.

[telriv]

Also remembering he is the one, I think,  who gave me the NEW REAR PACKAGE TRAY. I was not at the shop at the time & was said, to my boss at the time, to give this to the kid that works here. Turns out it was the prototype that was made in Germany in very late '60 or very early '61. After many yrs. of hanging onto it on the shelf my Riv. was starting to need a rear tray. I called Clark's to see if they would be interested in supplying these for other 1st. gen Riv. owners as they had started re-proing parts for the Rivs. Calvin, the owner of Clark's had a '64 Riv. & saw that there were few or no aftermarket parts available. He was surprised to find out that some of the materials used on Corvairs were the same as the Riv. So that's where it started by making the upholstery. Then I put Mark & Karen in touch with the manufacturer of the foam to the original makers of the foam for the OEM, GM, Ford & some Chrysler in Wash. state. I had sent some good forms to the manufacturer in Wash. to have my foams re-proed. I didn't have any foams for the custom interior, only the standard interior. I think Clark's does now supply foam for the custom interior. Someone may have sent in foams to be copied from a custom interior since that time. Clark's contacted them & the foam being produced by them was fair superior than the suppliers they were using at that time.  Which is still what is sold today.  I checked it for fit 1st. & sent it off to Clark's to have it reproduced. The 1st. ones Clark's made were not contoured correctly. I ended up cutting the complete rear metal portion of the rear package tray area out & sending it to Clark's. That's why Clark's is SO much better than any others, they had a BRAND NEW ONE TO COPY. The only small problem I saw after all was said & done, many times, is where the top inside corners are on the top part of the rear seats. It was not as rounded as it should be. When I told Clark's about this it would have been too much to completely re-do the molds, AGAIN, & so many times in trying & the back & forth shipping. Maybe by now this small concern has been addressed. Maybe they added more padding material in this area. So now you know WHY Clark's  prices are a little bit higher than some others.

 

 

Tom T.

[1965rivgs]

7 hours ago, telriv said:

Also remembering he is the one, I think,  who gave me the NEW REAR PACKAGE TRAY. I was not at the shop at the time & was said, to my boss at the time, to give this to the kid that works here. Turns out it was the prototype that was made in Germany in very late '60 or very early '61. After many yrs. of hanging onto it on the shelf my Riv. was starting to need a rear tray. I called Clark's to see if they would be interested in supplying these for other 1st. gen Riv. owners as they had started re-proing parts for the Rivs. Calvin, the owner of Clark's had a '64 Riv. & saw that there were few or no aftermarket parts available. He was surprised to find out that some of the materials used on Corvairs were the same as the Riv. So that's where it started by making the upholstery. Then I put Mark & Karen in touch with the manufacturer of the foam to the original makers of the foam for the OEM, GM, Ford & some Chrysler in Wash. state. I had sent some good forms to the manufacturer in Wash. to have my foams re-proed. I didn't have any foams for the custom interior, only the standard interior. I think Clark's does now supply foam for the custom interior. Someone may have sent in foams to be copied from a custom interior since that time. Clark's contacted them & the foam being produced by them was fair superior than the suppliers they were using at that time.  Which is still what is sold today.  I checked it for fit 1st. & sent it off to Clark's to have it reproduced. The 1st. ones Clark's made were not contoured correctly. I ended up cutting the complete rear metal portion of the rear package tray area out & sending it to Clark's. That's why Clark's is SO much better than any others, they had a BRAND NEW ONE TO COPY. The only small problem I saw after all was said & done, many times, is where the top inside corners are on the top part of the rear seats. It was not as rounded as it should be. When I told Clark's about this it would have been too much to completely re-do the molds, AGAIN, & so many times in trying & the back & forth shipping. Maybe by now this small concern has been addressed. Maybe they added more padding material in this area. So now you know WHY Clark's  prices are a little bit higher than some others.

 

 

Tom T.

Cool story Tom. Cal also contacted me for a set of custom covers which I sent to him for patterns....but never mentioned the foam? It would be nice if the foam for the custom interior was available!

  Tom

[1965rivgs]

Just now viewed the video...check out the front end paint mismatch on the Toro at 15:50 and the Riviera all thru the video. Factory? Probably...but the mismatch on the Riv is much more pronounced than I`m accustomed to seeing on low mileage `60`s GM cars.

I hope NPD does a better job with their applications than the owner does with his facts. I think I would take issue with 50% of his claims but, otherwise, nice cars. Another example of the low mileage survivors being green or spartan...they`re never triple black and loaded!

  Tom

[RivNut]

21 minutes ago, 1965rivgs said:

they`re never triple black and loaded!

  Tom

?

[EmTee]

Ahhhhh, just watched that video and the beauty of that '67 flowing along the highway reminded me of this video...  

 

https://youtu.be/kjZquVWR6IE?t=87

[JZRIV]

2 hours ago, 1965rivgs said:

Just now viewed the video...check out the front end paint mismatch on the Toro at 15:50 and the Riviera all thru the video. Factory? Probably...but the mismatch on the Riv is much more pronounced than I`m accustomed to seeing on low mileage `60`s GM cars.

Tom

Yes noticed it right off. To make sure I got it right, on the Flint built Rivs the body all except front clip was painted at the Euclid OH Fisher plant then shipped to Flint MI. Then the front clip was painted at Flint and installed? Hence opportunity for a mismatch.  

[Rivman]

I did get pictures of both of those cars last year when we were in Ocala for the ROA Southeastern Regional, Rick Schmidt gave us a personally guided tour of the collection ...

 

 

 

You can't see the miss match on the Toro too much at the angle I took the picture, but you can definitely see it on the Riv.

 

Among lots of other interesting cars in their collection they have a pretty nice 28,000 mile '71 Riviera too.

[Chimera]

What color is the 71?

[jsgun]

14 hours ago, telriv said:

I remember one time Bill Mitchell brought what was like a '64 Riv. into the shop I was working at for an oil change. I don't know if he had a vacation home in the town in Ct. where I worked or had a friend he was visiting. At the time, early 60's, I didn't know who he was just that it was a 1st. gen Riv, I was interested as MY '64 RIV. would be parked out front. He asked who car it was out front & beyond that we didn't have ANY conversation. I brought the car into the shop. It sounded diff. Set it up on the lift. The frame set-up was WAY diff. than my Riv.  Got it up in the air & to my surprise it was MUCH diff. than my Riv. being FWD. & all. Did the oil change & never did see when the car was picked up to ask questions. Could have been the TORO in disguise????

 

 

Tom T.

I wonder what it was? Mitchell had the power to have anything he wanted built. I've read somewhere that GM was experimenting with front wheel drive as early as the late 50's, in competition with Ford's proposed FWD Thunderbird. There's a lot of room between the front rails on the Riv, and I've noticed that the engine is fairly forward away from the firewall.

[rodneybeauchamp]

On 23/01/2018 at 2:20 PM, 1965rivgs said:

I cringe every time I see a set of `50`s wide whtewalls on a `60`s car...ESPECIALLY on a class act like a `67 Eldo! That is AWFUL!

Tom

 

Tom. At least they are only on one side. You just have to make sure you got in and out on the passenger side. Wonder what the spare is? Black wall, red line?

 

????? Rodney

[Rivman]

9 hours ago, Chimera said:

What color is the 71?

 

They list it as Platinum Mist Metallic, the ROA website lists it as Platinum Mist.

 

 

 

 

You might check on it but I don't know if they do much selling?

[1965rivgs]

2 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

 

Tom. At least they are only on one side. You just have to make sure you got in and out on the passenger side. Wonder what the spare is? Black wall, red line?

 

????? Rodney

No matter...probably a good idea to stay out of the trunk

  Tom

[60FlatTop]

4 hours ago, rodneybeauchamp said:

Wonder what the spare is? Black wall, red line?

 

Aren't you supposed to buy five tires when you get new?

[Chimera]

Nice. I don't recall seeing a 71 in that Platinum Mist. Just a bit over 1000 from factory.

[65VerdeGS]

That was a cool video, comparing two great '60's designs.

 

I was mystified by the key lock installed on the hood of the Toronado.   It artfully replaced the letter "O" in the "O L D M O B I L E" written across the front of the car.  Anyone know what the lock cylinder was for?  Perhaps a burglar alarm, similar to those installed in the C3 Corvettes?  I seem to recall some had a key cylinder installed on the front driver's fender to activate the alarm. 

 

It was also interesting to hear the host say that the Riv had more 'get up and go' than the Toro, despite the apparent difference in horsepower between the two cars.  The Toro's 425/385hp engine vs. the Riv's 430/340hp.   Of course, the Toro being 250-300lbs heavier probably accounts for much of that.

[Chimera]

25 minutes ago, 65VerdeGS said:

That was a cool video, comparing two great '60's designs.

 

I was mystified by the key lock installed on the hood of the Toronado.   It artfully replaced the letter "O" in the "O L D M O B I L E" written across the front of the car.  Anyone know what the lock cylinder was for?  Perhaps a burglar alarm, similar to those installed in the C3 Corvettes?  I seem to recall some had a key cylinder installed on the front driver's fender to activate the alarm. 

 

It was also interesting to hear the host say that the Riv had more 'get up and go' than the Toro, despite the apparent difference in horsepower between the two cars.  The Toro's 425/385hp engine vs. the Riv's 430/340hp.   Of course, the Toro being 250-300lbs heavier probably accounts for much of that.

Basically Toronados are more James Bond while Rivieras are more Batman get up and go...

[1965rivgs]

2 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

That was a cool video, comparing two great '60's designs.

 

I was mystified by the key lock installed on the hood of the Toronado.   It artfully replaced the letter "O" in the "O L D M O B I L E" written across the front of the car.  Anyone know what the lock cylinder was for?  Perhaps a burglar alarm, similar to those installed in the C3 Corvettes?  I seem to recall some had a key cylinder installed on the front driver's fender to activate the alarm. 

 

It was also interesting to hear the host say that the Riv had more 'get up and go' than the Toro, despite the apparent difference in horsepower between the two cars.  The Toro's 425/385hp engine vs. the Riv's 430/340hp.   Of course, the Toro being 250-300lbs heavier probably accounts for much of that.

...and the Riv has the switch pitch converter

  Tom

[EmTee]

5 hours ago, 65VerdeGS said:

I was mystified by the key lock installed on the hood of the Toronado.

 

My assumption is that it is for a factory alarm system.  70's vintage Stingrays had the same lock cylinder mounted on the left fender for the alarm.  I agree with Tom, the switch-pitch ST400 may explain the extra 'punch' from a standing start.