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First Project 1953 Chrysler New Yorker


Bigtwin

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I'll be picking up a 1953 Chrysler New Yorker this week.  It's been in the same family since it was purchased new.  It hasn't been started in about 18 months but started easily in about 30 seconds.  It has been stored inside for most of it's life but outside under a carport the last couple of years.  I've never had an antique car before and would like some guidance on where to start.  I know that I should change out most or all of the fluids and get a service manual.   Who has the best service manuals?

 

I was told the 53 has no brakes so will be checking that out after the car arrives.

 

thanks and any words of wisdom welcomed by this rookie.

 

Terry

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I have a 1953 Chrysler Windsor. Very close to the same car as yours I believe. However I have the straight 6 flathead engine. You have a V8 correct? 

What are you goals? To make it a safe driver for Sunday cruises and or attend a few local car shows? Or are you wanting a top level restoration? 

 

Here is mine, as you can see they look very similar. I think I have a fair bit knowledge gathered that I can share. Do you have any more photos you can share?

 Rear end shot? Engine compartment shot? Dash interior shot? Thanks, Keith.

 

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Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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First investment one of these. The factory manuals are excellent. 

 

https://www.amazon.com/Factory-Shop-Service-Chrysler-Imperial/dp/B00J61S6KK

 

No-brakes could be several things. Leaking wheel cylinders. Leaking master cylinder. Seized brake pistons, etc. You may have front disc brakes. They were available by ‘53. 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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Keithb7, thank you so much for your reply.  Your Windsor is absolutely beautiful!  Do you have a before/after pic?  How long did it take you to restore it?

 

My first goal is to have a safe Sunday driver and car shows would be fun.  Later, I might give some thought to a total restoration.  I have no experience with any of this but I am anxious to learn and I have the time. and space.

 

Can you tell me what products I should use on the paint and chrome to maximize any "shine" that may be lurking below the dust and oxidation?   

 

Where do you obtain your parts?  Currently, the only missing part that I know of is the interior dome light cover.

 

The car comes from a family that lived in Amarillo,Tx and I'm getting pictures of the original owners standing by the car.   The car has stayed in the family since the original purchase and I'm buying it from the great grand daughter.

 

I'll post better quality pictures later but I have a couple that I took in haste this past weekend.

 

Terry

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Terry, nice car. Yes our interior looks identical based on what I can see in your photos. 

 

I located my car pretty much in the condition as seen in the photo above. I cleaned it up. Waxed it. Detailed it and it looked like you see. 

 

I had to spend a fair bit of time doing mechanical repairs. My car ran but not great. It was running on. 5 cylinders, and those 5 were low on compression. The engine needed a full valve job. Which I completed myself in June last year.  There were many other repairs to do as well but I won’t get into that now. This thread is about your car. 

 

You need to sign up here

http://p15-d24.com/forum/4-p15-d24-forum/

and offer an introduction. This AACA site here  and the P15-D24 groups are the best sources of info I have been able to find on these old Chryslers. Tons of great helpful people. 

 

You can get tons of parts here http://m.oldmoparts.com/ 

 

Also Rock Auto web site has a fair bit of goodies for my car. Surprisingly. 

 

As far as getting whatever sheen you can from whats left of your paint, I recommend you post a direct question on this in the AACA General Discussion group here. 

 

When do you have the car in your posession? At home to start working on?

 

Before I go too far in to details, what is your practical mechanical experience level?    Do you have a half decent collection of tools? How’s your mechanical theory? Tell us more then we can make some proper recommendations. 

 

Keith

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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The Chrysler was one of the best built cars of its time and the New Yorker was top of the Chrysler line (except for Imperial). Their engineering was second to none, and every part on a Chrysler looks like it cost more to make than those of its closest competitors. The New Yorker Deluxe was the most powerful car in the world at the time, 235HP Hemi head V8 with 4 barrel carb. You could buy one with power steering, power brakes, power windows, air conditioning, tinted glass, padded dash. No other car offered all the features Chrysler did, not Cadillac or Rolls Royce, nobody.  Their main competitors were Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln and Packard.

 

Engine, trans, brakes etc are well up to modern road conditions if they are in top shape. One thing that will not be familiar, is the transmission. It is one of the earliest automatics and has some characteristics of a manual trans (clutch pedal) and some features of an automatic. There have been several threads on the care and driving of these. PLEASE see if you can find them with a search. I have typed out the same information 100 times. There were a couple of long threads from 2008 that will tell you more than you want to know. The trans is called an M6 transmission, with Fluid Drive. Do a search for Fluid Drive in the Chrysler section. Your car may have Fluid Drive or Fluid Torque Drive. It will be marked on the shifter quadrant. They both drive the same but service and repair will be different.

 

If you have that car in top shape, with new shocks, tires, and an alignment you will think you are driving a Rolls. No kidding.

 

2 things that trip up Chrysler newbies: 6 volt positive ground electrics, left hand threads on the left side wheel bolts.

 

You need a six volt battery and it needs to be connected with the positive terminal to ground. This is the opposite of today's cars.

 

Left hand threads means the bolts turn the opposite way to normal bolts. They are marked on the head L and R. If you have the car serviced or new tires installed you MUST tell the mechanic, most have never seen left hand threads and they can easily ruin them by turning the wrong way. Some guys write a note in big letters and stick it inside the hubcaps.

 

Incidentally some cars, over the years have been changed by putting on a different brake drum and hub so you should check to be sure. As long as you are aware of this it is not a problem.

 

Another thing that will come up if you do a brake job. The rear hubs fit on the axle with a taper and they are hard to get off. You need a BIG puller and don't be afraid to wail on it with a big hammer. There is no other way to get them off. There have been several threads on this already if you want to look them up.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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These Chrysler Master Tech books are awesome. Read all you can that apply to your project. They tech you the" how and they why" of car systems and  parts. A great resource before tackling a job on your car. Many Chrysler Master Tech videos are on You Tube to watch as well. All are excellent and highly recommended.

 

http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Lit/Master/index.htm

 

For example this applies directly to your car: https://youtu.be/7UDjav91CdM

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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Keith, you are very lucky to have the Fluid Torque transmission--which features a true torque converter, not just a fluid coupling.  It was an option on Chryslers only in 1952 and 1953.  I wonder if Terry's car has that option?  If so, his gear indicator will say Fluid Torque;  if not, it will say Fluid Matic.

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11 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

The Chrysler was one of the best built cars of its time and the New Yorker was top of the Chrysler line (except for Imperial). Their engineering was second to none, and every part on a Chrysler looks like it cost more to make than those of its closest competitors. The New Yorker Deluxe was the most powerful car in the world at the time, 235HP Hemi head V8 with 4 barrel carb. You could buy one with power steering, power brakes, power windows, air conditioning, tinted glass, padded dash. No other car offered all the features Chrysler did, not Cadillac or Rolls Royce, nobody.  Their main competitors were Cadillac, Buick, Lincoln and Packard.

 

Engine, trans, brakes etc are well up to modern road conditions if they are in top shape. One thing that will not be familiar, is the transmission. It is one of the earliest automatics and has some characteristics of a manual trans (clutch pedal) and some features of an automatic. There have been several threads on the care and driving of these. PLEASE see if you can find them with a search. I have typed out the same information 100 times. There were a couple of long threads from 2008 that will tell you more than you want to know. The trans is called an M6 transmission, with Fluid Drive. Do a search for Fluid Drive in the Chrysler section. Your car may have Fluid Drive or Fluid Torque Drive. It will be marked on the shifter quadrant. They both drive the same but service and repair will be different.

 

If you have that car in top shape, with new shocks, tires, and an alignment you will think you are driving a Rolls. No kidding.

 

2 things that trip up Chrysler newbies: 6 volt positive ground electrics, left hand threads on the left side wheel bolts.

 

You need a six volt battery and it needs to be connected with the positive terminal to ground. This is the opposite of today's cars.

 

Left hand threads means the bolts turn the opposite way to normal bolts. They are marked on the head L and R. If you have the car serviced or new tires installed you MUST tell the mechanic, most have never seen left hand threads and they can easily ruin them by turning the wrong way. Some guys write a note in big letters and stick it inside the hubcaps.

 

Incidentally some cars, over the years have been changed by putting on a different brake drum and hub so you should check to be sure. As long as you are aware of this it is not a problem.

 

Another thing that will come up if you do a brake job. The rear hubs fit on the axle with a taper and they are hard to get off. You need a BIG puller and don't be afraid to wail on it with a big hammer. There is no other way to get them off. There have been several threads on this already if you want to look them up.

Can you tell me how to jump start the car?   Can it be jump started from a 12 volt system? 

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7 hours ago, jyinger said:

Keith, you are very lucky to have the Fluid Torque transmission--which features a true torque converter, not just a fluid coupling.  It was an option on Chryslers only in 1952 and 1953.  I wonder if Terry's car has that option?  If so, his gear indicator will say Fluid Torque;  if not, it will say Fluid Matic.

I had someone look at the gear indicator and he could not find anything with Fluid Matic or Fluid Torque, only "R L N D"...  Keith, can you send of pic of where the Fluid Torque or Fluid Matic info is displayed and I'll have my helper look again.

 

 

Edited by Terry Crissman
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You can use 12V if done so carefully.  

 

Turn off all electrics in car. Lights radio, heater, etc. everything. I like to remove postive cable from 6V battery in car to protect battery. 

 

From 12V battery run booster cable from positive post to a good clean strong ground on the car. Hood hinge works well. Have helper in the car ready to turn ignition key. Connect negative end of 12V battery to starter relay switch. Have friend turn ignition and start car. Remove 12V cables and reinstall 6V positive ground wire now while engine is running. 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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2 hours ago, keithb7 said:

@jyinger what are the performance differences between the fluid coupler and the true torque converter? More torque over wider RPM range with converter? 

The Fluid Drive is a fluid coupler, which was invented around 1930 and first used on the English Lanchester car about 1933. All the early automatics like Hydramatic and Fluid Drive used a fluid coupling.

 

Here is how it works. Imagine you have 2 electric fans sitting on a table pointing at each other. Turn on the first fan, soon the second fan will start to turn as the breeze hits it. This is the principle of the fluid coupling. You have a sealed housing, with fan blades on the inside. Then there is the driven member which is free to rotate. The first part is attached to the engine, the second part to the transmission. When you start the engine at idle there is a lot of slippage but as you speed up and the car moves faster and faster they move together. At normal cruising speed there is a slippage of 2 or 3%.

 

This was a great innovation because it eliminated the problem of working the clutch. It was usually attached to a 3 speed or 4 speed transmission.

 

The next innovation was the torque converter. This was just like the fluid coupling except it had an added third fan in between the first two. Its blades were arranged so as to deflect the oil and cause it to hit the driven member with greater force. This had the effect of raising power output at low speeds, the same as if you shifted to a lower gear. It actually multiplies torque which is why it was called a torque converter.

 

Engineers thought this would make the ideal transmission, perfectly smooth and automatic. The torque converter would multiply torque 2.6 times at stall, same as gearing down the transmission 2.6:1. The first torque converter transmissions were Buick Dynaflow, Chev Powerglide and Packard Ultramatic. All these were 2 speed transmissions meant to do all their work in high gear with a low gear for emergencies. They normally start off in high and never shift.

 

Chrysler decided to make a torque converter optional in place of the Fluid Drive unit. The result was the only 4 speed transmission with torque converter. When you combine the super powerful Hemi V8 with the torque converter + 4 speed you get a car with startling performance for 1953. In a stop light drag race if you start off in Low, hold the brake pedal down and rev the engine then release the brake you will burn rubber like you won't believe. I know, I used to have a 52 New Yorker which was bigger and heavier than your car with the same engine. You aren't going to knock off any Boss Mustangs but no 1953 car can come near it, and it surprises the hell out of everyone when that dowdy looking old sedan takes off like a rocket.

 

I'm not suggesting you do this, in view of the car's age but that is how a torque converter works.

 

From the standpoint of service and repair the two are quite different. The Fluid Drive is a sealed, self contained unit. Its oil level can be checked and topped up through a hole in the floor board, below the instrument panel.

 

The torque converter requires a separate oil supply. The first ones had an oil pan under the bellhousing. The oil level could be checked from under the car. Later cars used the engine oil. There were passages through the engine block and bellhousing to feed oil to the torque converter. These models have no pan but the engine oil pan is larger and they require more oil for an oil change. But oil changes are not required as frequently. I think if I had one of these models I would add a Frantz oil filter to keep the oil extra clean and use only 10W30 motor oil.

 

Your 1953 will have the one that uses engine oil if it has the torque converter. Usually the gearshift quadrant is marked Fluid Drive or Fluid Torque Drive. If not you may have to look under the car to figure out which you have. Both use the same transmission and in both cases, the transmission oil supply is separate.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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About boosting off a 12 volt. There are 2 ways. One is as Keith describes, disconnect the battery (one terminal will do). I like to ground the jumper cable to the engine for best results. When the car starts disconnect the jumper and quickly stick the battery cable back on.

 

Another way takes 2 people. Connect the ground, have one person turn the key, the second person sticks the jumper cable on and takes it off as soon as the engine starts.

 

The point is you should not leave a 6 and 12 volt battery connected for more than a few seconds, it won't do either of them any good to connect them for a long time.

 

It is possible to start the car with a 12 volt for testing purposes if you don't have a 6 volt battery, just don't run it for more than 10 or 15 minutes or the coil might overheat.

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12 minutes ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Here is a picture of the gearshift. You can clearly see it says Fluid Torque Drive . Standard model will say Fluid Drive.

 

image.png.9789aa9df4e94e408dac348bcf6ec1a2.png

 

Mine and KeithB's are a bit different....nothing listed other than the RLND that I can see...

 

image.png.62a9a4191d4a834dfa1b6d513b4c8ff1.png

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in 53 Chrysler put the powerflite automatic in some of the last run of the cars. i had a 53 imperial that had it. however, if this car has a clutch, then it is not the powerflite. i have a dome light, but not the plastic cover that goes to it. let me know if interested.   capt den

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1 hour ago, skyler said:

in 53 Chrysler put the powerflite automatic in some of the last run of the cars. i had a 53 imperial that had it. however, if this car has a clutch, then it is not the powerflite. i have a dome light, but not the plastic cover that goes to it. let me know if interested.   capt den

It has a clutch. I just need the dome cover. Thanks

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Reviewing my 1953 shop manual this is what they say.  This particular book I am referencing is for Canadian issued cars. Maybe this info only applies to Canadian cars?

 

1953 NY-er is a C56 (Terry’s car)

1953 Windsor (my car) is a C60

1953 Custom Imperial is a C58

1953 Crown Imperial C59

 

Standard fluid drive was available in C56, C58 and C60. There was no stator for torque multiplication in these. No external cooling. Terry’s car could have this basic option. 3.54:1

 

A reservoir type torque converter is also listed. A torque converter with multiplication stators. Oil was confined to torque only. Oil was sent to front of engine via steel send and return lines, to be cooled.  Oil cooler is mounted on front of engine near water pump. Models with this reservoir torque converter are not listed in my manual. I suspect this may be what Terry’s car has.  Terry check front of your engine for the cooler. 3.36:1. This torque converter for the V8 NY-er brought with it larger diameter clutch plates and higher clutch spring pressures. Total spring load of 2190 lbs for standard fluid drive versus 3,000 pounds for fluid torque drive. Seems to me the fluid torque drive is a heavy duty better fluid coupler for the V8. 

 

Next we have engine-fed torque converter. Torque has the stators. Torque Oil is shared with engine oil. Oil runs from engine oil pump, through rear of block to torque, then back to engine oil sump pan. Deeper oil pan is used. Some Plymouth, Dodge, and Desoto cars have this option. The only Chrysler shown in my book to have this option in '53 was my C60 Windsor Deluxe. Both torque and engine oil are drained when servicing the engine oil. Torque oil is cooled along with the engine oil. 3.73:1 My Windsor Deluxe could have had to standard fluid drive at 3.9:1, without stators, and I assume no shared engine oil either. So as mentioned above, yes I am lucky to have the optional upgraded Fluid Torque Drive in my Windsor Deluxe.

 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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Now I think Fluid Torque Drive was standard equpment on 1953 New Yorkers and it was the kind where the torque converter shared the engine oil supply. That is why there is no marking on the gearshift quadrant or on the trunk lid.

 

This is an excellent transmission, rugged and trouble free with better performance than most automatics of the time. It does require its own driving technique which you can master in a few minutes.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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Found more info in a second service manual. The reservoir type torque converter was used on the C56 NY’r and the C58 Imperial only, in 1953. The reservoir type TC can be identified by the oil cooler on the engine by water pump, and an oil sump with drain located on the bottom of the clutch housing. 

 

I can't seem to find  any info in my manuals  indicating that the 1953 C56 NY’r shared torque oil with engine. Just the 6 cylinder C60 in the Chrysler line. 

 

PS: Post has been edited to update. I have located information that shows that the engine fed Torque Converter was also used on the V8. Pics are shown in this Chrysler Master Tech lesson here:

 

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/mtsc/057.pdf

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I have never seen a Chrysler V8 with the engine fed torque converter. I have a 1952 and 53 Chrysler 331 with sump fed torque converters.

DeSoto and Dodge ...yes. And all the six cylinder cars with engine fed TQ's.

Can you afford to change the oil on one of those engine fed cars!!!!

Glad i don't own one:lol:

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13L of oil is not a concern when I service my engine fed Fluid Torque Drive 53 Windsor. I do my own work. I load up and buy lots of oil when it goes on sale. I run modern detergent oil. I dropped my pan last fall and removed all sludge.

 

 My car does need about double the quantity of oil of a normal car. If I put 1,000 to 1,500 miles a year on my car I’m pretty happy. That’s 1 oil change a year.  The cost is not an issue. 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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I believe Chrysler recommended an extended oil change interval with those engines, the owner's manual will confirm.

 

You can practically eliminate oil changes with a Frantz oil filter. Change the element every 1000 miles and top up the oil. Have your oil analyzed if you like, those who have done so, found their oil was good for 50,000 miles.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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My Motor Repair Manual (1954) indicates the shared oil supply torque converter was used on Chrysler  six - late 1952, 1953 DeSoto V8 and Dodge V8 1953. I know it was also used on Plymouth HyDrive 1953. No mention of the DeSoto six either.

 

So it is possible they never made a Chrysler V8 with shared oil supply. It does seem strange they would add this feature to every car they made, except the most expensive. The trouble is I recall a thread on this forum from the owner of such a car, with pictures. But I am not going to comb through the archives looking for it. This is what I mean by driving you nuts.

Edited by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)
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Bigtwin, when are you picking the car up?

 

We are looking forward to lots of pictures of the car when you get it home. This looks like it'll be a GREAT project! Maybe not quite as flashy as some other '53 cars, but the engineering is fantastic.

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It is likely the car will need a relatively small amount of work to put back in commission if it is approached in a careful manner. If the owner or mechanic starts tearing things apart and replacing random parts it may well be 5 times as much work and expense, and may be so messed up it never runs right again.

 

The secret is to go over the car carefully like a detective or a doctor, looking for clues and diagnosing problems. For instance go through the car and clean it up but save all loose screws, bolts, parts etc even odd looking bits of metal or rubber that can't possibly be car parts. They will turn out to be some obscure irreplaceable part. If you find new parts like brake shoes, fuel pump or carb kit that is a strong hint that those parts were giving trouble. You can throw away the old dried out ballpoint pens and cigarette packets lol.

 

If you want to get the engine running check the ignition carefully for broken or frayed wires.Carefully clean the points without disturbing the gap or timing. Make sure they are opening and closing, and making a spark. Check that all plugs are firing. See the engine turns over and has oil pressure. Check the gas and make sure it is not spoiled, this is very important. If there is any question, disconnect the gas line and hook up a motorboat gas tank or gas can.

 

There are other points to look for but that is enough for now. You may want to ask questions once you get the car home and start working on it.

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Looking forward to an update and more pics from Bigtwin. A very lucky man to have located a 53 NY’r in that condition. 

 

Rusty is right about randomly tearing into the car. There is so much to learn. Study your manuals and plan a systematic approach. As much as anyone, I like to hear the engine rumbling ASAP.  However I try to prioritize and focus on safety items first.  

 

With the tires aired up, steering seems to move properly? Brakes at least seem to apply somewhat? Once engine is running and all fluids are checked a very short quick drive to test is due. At least then you know what you are starting with and go from there. A few loops in the drive way or at least foward and reverse a few times will suffice. 

 

Brakes and emergency brake. Very, very important. Steering parts, equally so. Head, tail and turn signal lights. Those  systems have to work properly. If you are so inlined, study your maual and understand them. Feel free to post many questions here. Those old  tires gotta go. 

 

All the repair work does not have to be done all at once. When you get some important fundamentals done, you may be able to starting driving it. Then pick away at more repairs weekly. That’s what I do. So I can enjoy driving my car and benefit from the rewards of repairing it as I go through it.

 

Turning your ‘53 into a good, strong,  reliable car may take a while. It depends on how much time and money you can throw at it. As I pick away at mine, my confidence in it grows. As does my driving distances.  My car still has bias ply tires. New radials is my next big move. Then I think I’m ready for some long road trips. 

 

Hoping not to jinx myself, but I’ve never needed a tow home yet. I’ve come close but fixed things on the spot. Or got lucky. Like the first valve set. Done incorrectly, once the engine got warmed up it started running poorly. I bee-lined it home ASAP and shut it off in my driveway. Then it would not start again. Valves were too tight. Stop, review manual, ask some q’s and do it again. 

 

These old cars are pretty simple and are often able to be repaired roadside with a few basic hand tools. Its a fun rewarding hobby in my experience. - Keith

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

 My car still has bias ply tires. New radials is my next big move. Then I think I’m ready for some long road trips. 

 

Keith, When you go to radial tires you may not like your full wheel covers any more.

I have made that swap more than once and had problems with the wheel cover walking around the wheel and bending up the valve stems.

They will also get noisy and possibly fall off.

There have been a couple of discussions about this on these forums.

The cure may be some newer wheels, I never tried that but there is something about the older wheels that came with bias tires not liking radials.

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