E-85

[jonlabree]

Has anyone tried E-85 Gas?

They say that you get more power with it.

[Booreatta]

I have tried it in my Ram truck, I don't feel any more power but it does cost less doesn't seem to affect my mileage much

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

You can get more power and smoother performance, but fuel milage will drop.

From what I have read it is equal to running 106 octane. 

Some say you need special tanks and lines to run it, but I have my doubts about that aspect. 

[handmedownreatta]

the whole claim against ethanal is that the achohol in it attracts moisture which causes the steel gas lines and tank to rust and that it eats the seals in the fuel system.thats why i pay extra for ethanal free gasoline.

[NCBRIJEN]

4 minutes ago, handmedownreatta said:

the whole claim against ethanol is that the alcohol in it attracts moisture which causes the steel gas lines and tank to rust and that it eats the seals in the fuel system.that's why i pay extra for ethanol free gasoline.

I also use only Pure Gasoline in all vehicles below 2002 that were not designed to burn ethanol ... including all yard tools and Marine vehicles.   Every Gasoline station around me all have 100 % pure pumps for this reason.

[Ronnie]

I have a 2012 Chevy Equinox (V6) that has a "Flex Fuel" decal on the rear of the car. Not all of the Chevy Equinox have that decal.  I wonder if that means it is supposed to perform better that other Equinox if ethanol is in the gasoline? I've not taken the time to read the owners manual that might explain what it means.

[39BuickEight]

Generally E-85 costs less, gets you worse gas mileage, and the power is about the same.  Some people like it because it’s doesn’t come from foreign oil.  Otherwise I see no benefit.  I’ve tried it in all sorts of different company cars at work.

[SpecialEducation]

DO NOT RUN E85 in a car that was not designed for it. 

 

E85 has LESS energy per gallon than straight gas. About 30% less. To tune a vehicle to run on E85, you first need injectors capable flowing 30% - 50% more fuel. Now you need a higher capacity fuel pump, too.

 

Modern cars that are “FlexFuel” equipped have inline sensors to determine the alcohol content and adjust the tune to match. 

 

Your Reatta is not that sophisticated, and neither are any of the Grand Nationals that are out there running E85, unless they’ve done a lot more work besides swapping PROMs & injectors.  Once you take an OBD-I era car and convert it, that’s all it will run. 

 

E85 is worse for the environment, and I’ve never seen it cheaper than 30% below straight gas.  It eats soft parts in your fuel system, and holds moisture to promote corrosion.  For 95% of the population, E85 is a TERRIBLE fuel. 

 

The ONLY reason to switch to E85 is detonation resistance. You can run higher compression, boost, and ignition advance when you are on E85. 

 

Just like premium (high octane) fuel, the fuel itself does not make more power. Higher octane burns SLOWER & COOLER, and therefore allows higher power producing designs to operate without blowing up or melting down the engine. 

 

Signed, 

Your local, friendly propulsion systems engineer. 

[39BuickEight]

1 hour ago, SpecialEducation said:

DO NOT RUN E85 in a car that was not designed for it. 

 

Signed, 

Your local, friendly propulsion systems engineer. 

 

Worth repeating!

[2seater]

I used to belong to an E85 forum and there seems to be no shortage of both good and bad advice. I looked at this long and hard for several years, and I have mentioned it here about building a high compression 3800 to take advantage of E85's octane. The problem with that is it is pretty much E85 only or some form of race fuel after that. Probably okay for a somewhat locally driven car but just too many limitations for me to use as a daily driver or trip mobile. A boosted engine, especially one that has the ability to change the tune based on the fuel would be a good candidate. Essentially a variable compression engine which is done with the boost level should work well. In an engine designed to run on 87 octane, the high octane advantage of E85 is lost. You are left with a fuel with somewhere around 27% less energy but the ability to burn roughly 30% more of it, for a small theoretical net gain. Of course that 30ish % fuel mileage penalty you are pretty much stuck with and the stations with E85 near me have never made up that total cost difference. 

 

A short story that I believe happened to me this past summer. My wife and I tripped down to Kansas to see the total eclipse this last Aug. I had to stop for fuel in Neb. just before heading south into KS to see my sister. We were using our '11 Subaru Forester which had been running between 26-28mpg for the first 700 miles at 75-85mph. As we headed south I noticed the fuel mileage had taken a serious drop, like to 21-22mpg. I actually made a quick stop to see if there was leak or something else that was obviously wrong but found nothing. I assumed a sensor somewhere was failing but it ran fine and power was good plus no warning codes. It was about 100 miles to where we stopped at my sisters and we used her van to go back into NE for the total eclipse, actually very close to where we filled up before. We were in a gas station for a pit stop and I noticed they had E30 pumps in among the others. I asked the local guy what sort of employment they had in the area and he said there was a big ethanol plant just up the road and was a major employer. I am pretty certain I accidently filled up with E30 which caused the big mileage drop. After I ran the rest of that tank out heading home, the mileage returned to normal after the next fillup. 

[Ronnie]

I don't know if flex fuel has anything to do with it but the Equinox will get over 26 mpg on a trip with any fuel I put in it. That's not bad for a big vehicle with four people and their luggage. Most gas around here is 10% ethanol. You have to look around to get pure gas.

[89RedDarkGrey]

There is a website that locates it for you...

[SCOTT's 90's]

13 hours ago, handmedownreatta said:

it attracts moisture which causes the steel gas lines and tank to rust and that it eats the seals in the fuel system.thats why i pay extra for ethanal free gasoline.

 

So a thought came to me, could you add a gas dryer like "HEET" to remove the moisture from E-85; if by chance there were damaging issues? Not that I would want to put E-gas in to save money and then BUY and additive to counteract such things....I know stupid question.

[89RedDarkGrey]

Valid question.

 

It is like brake fluid; by it's hygroscopic nature, it attracts moisture from the air (humidity). That's why it's not used in boats or aircraft, and only ethanol free fuel is used for those applications.

[2seater]

I kinda scratched my head over adding gas dryer, which is mainly another form of alcohol, usually isopropyl or methanol? As far as I know, gas dryers don't eliminate the water, they just absorb it so it can cycle through the system and be burned. I have stopped using Heet type products when E10 became the defacto standard, reasoning the alcohol already in the fuel does that for me. Maybe I am off base but again, at 10% ethanol, there is already 1.5 gallons alcohol in a 15 gallon fillup? JMO

 

On a sort of related subject, my go to station only has two tanks underground, 87 E10 and 91 pure gas. The mid-grade is usually not a lot more expensive and is a blend of the two tanks done in the pump. For much less than the pure gas cost, it reduces the ethanol content by approximately half.

[SCOTT's 90's]

So do we have any Chemical Engineers on our forum? I actually wanted to Major in Chemical Engineering with a Minor in Environmental Science, but life happened and it didn't.

 

Anyway there is also Acetone which I know that it has been discussed before, but what effects if any does it have on E-fuels?

[89RedDarkGrey]

5 minutes ago, Frogware said:

So do we have any Chemical Engineers on our forum? I actually wanted to Major in Chemical Engineering with a Minor in Environmental Science, but life happened and it didn't.

 

Anyway there is also Acetone which I know that it has been discussed before, but what effects if any does it have on E-fuels?

 

Since I am not allowed to post links to information- I will simply say to use your favorite Search Engine (mine is Yahoo) and search "what effect does acetone have on ethanol".

[2seater]

5 minutes ago, Frogware said:

So do we have any Chemical Engineers on our forum? I actually wanted to Major in Chemical Engineering with a Minor in Environmental Science, but life happened and it didn't.

 

Anyway there is also Acetone which I know that it has been discussed before, but what effects if any does it have on E-fuels?

Good question, I hope there is someone that can answer that. I can tell you from my personal experience adding Acetone to E10 did exactly nothing for me, at least nothing detectable.

[Ronnie]

A friend that owns an auto parts store says he uses an additive called Mix & Go to offset the effects of ethanol.  If he uses it chances are it's pretty good. I've never tried it myself.

[jonlabree]

Ronnie, My 2018 Equinox on the last trip to Florence KY got 38 mpg. at 75-80 mph

[Ronnie]

1 minute ago, 63viking said:

Ronnie, My 2018 Equinox on the last trip to Florence KY got 38 mpg. at 75-80 mph

 

That's really good. My 2012 has the 3.0 V6. I've heard the newer Equinox engines get better gas mileage but I didn't know it was that much better. I'm happy with 26 with it loaded down when we were on vacation last year.

[jonlabree]

Mine is a 4cyl that is turbocharged.

[Ronnie]

3 minutes ago, 63viking said:

Mine is a 4cyl that is turbocharged.

Ah. I didn't know they made one like that. Sounds like a great engine. Just hope it doesn't have the timing chain issues the old 4 cylinders had. I doubt it does.

[jonlabree]

WE had a 2012 and it burned oil. The dealer was about to rebuild the engine when we traded it in.

[Ronnie]

10 hours ago, 63viking said:

Mine is a 4cyl that is turbocharged.

 

I just read this article on an Equinox like you have and it sounds like a good upgrade from the older ones like I have. I like the touch screen in the center of the dash. Mine has all the bells and whistles and I find it a little confusing to operate while going down the road. The new dash looks much simpler. I still like the looks of my Equinox. I'm not sure I like the looks of the new model better. Looks like they did wise up and put the fuel access door on the drivers side where it should be.

[39BuickEight]

10 hours ago, 63viking said:

WE had a 2012 and it burned oil. The dealer was about to rebuild the engine when we traded it in.

Many co-workers of mine had 2012 4 cylinder Equinox's as company cars.  Most of them had fatal engine problems--used oil like crazy.  GM replaced many of then in under 30,000 miles.

[jonlabree]

I had 63,000  and they were still going to rebuild the engine under warranty.

[39BuickEight]

I think the engines at my employer failed sooner because we followed the GM owners manual recommended 7500 mile oil change schedule, instead of the more commonly done 3-5000 by most consumers.  The oil was gone by then

[2seater]

I know I am getting off topic but Subaru replaced the entire shortblock in our '11 Forester @ 183,000 miles. It was a settlement on a class action lawsuit for oil usage that extended the engine warranty to 100k miles or  one year if already over mileage. My only cost was $56 for a computer reflash to fix an extended crank time condition. GM isn't the only one with issues like this.

[Ronnie]

It's my understanding that the problem with the four cylinders in the Equinox was caused by a faulty timing chain that lead to metal particles getting in the engine and destroying it. GM extended the warranty to cover the engine problems but I don't know how much. The V6 engines like in my Equinox didn't have that problem.

[SpecialEducation]

8 hours ago, 39BuickEight said:

I think the engines at my employer failed sooner because we followed the GM owners manual recommended 7500 mile oil change schedule, instead of the more commonly done 3-5000 by most consumers.  The oil was gone by then

 

Bah!  My Vue (same platform as the Equinox) tells me when to change the oil, and since new the light always comes on at 7,000 miles. Over 250k on the original Ecotec, and I wasn’t exactly easy on it...

[SpecialEducation]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

It's my understanding that the problem with the four cylinders in the Equinox was caused by a faulty timing chain that lead to metal particles getting in the engine and destroying it. GM extended the warranty to cover the engine problems but I don't know how much. The V6 engines like in my Equinox didn't have that problem.

 

It’s the timing chain tensioner. They’ve revised it twice. It’s pressurized by engine oil, and it gets gummy and quits managing the slack.  

 

Basically, at 265k, mine quit taking the slack out, and the shock loading on the chain stripped the teeth off the crank sprocket.  It’s a $50 fix that takes 5 minutes when you are on top of it.  I wasn’t on top of it, so I had valves hitting pistons. 

 

Had a spare engine (with the latest timing) that I tossed in it. That motor has 170k on it now, and I’m not nice to it either. 

 

 

[39BuickEight]

That’s great, but your Vue has a completely different engine and drivetrain than the initial higher compression ecotec direct injection 2nd generation Equinox’s.  Might as well compare a Corvette.   I actually had a 2nd generation (2009) Vue as a company car and it wasn’t even the same engine.  Those were fine just like yours.  The issues with the higher compression Ecotec direct injection Equinox engines using oil was a huge one.  

 

Since my Vue, I have always chosen a van to drive since I have a family of 5.  Fortunately for me, my employer gives us several choices when we select our company vehicles.

Edited January 23, 2018 by 39BuickEight (see edit history)

[Ronnie]

I apologize for getting this thread off topic from the original subject of E85 by me mentioning my Equinox being the flex fuel model. I didn't realize it would open a can of worms about Equinox four cylinder reliability. That's a subject that has been beat to death on the Equinox forums.

[padgett]

Thought we got into this several years ago (2012 ?). Looed into deeply since my Jeep is flex-fuel. Basically alky needs more advance and about 30% higher injector fuel flow than 87 PON.

Also pure alky is about 106 octane (slow burning, nothing to do with power) but is blended to give the PON octane rating on the pump. Back in the '20s before finding tetraethyl lead's effect, the Boss and Tom found that alky made a significant octane improver, but you needed quite a bit of it.

Back in the day we routinely put "gas tank antifreeze" into the tank. That was alcohol. Indy cars hare run on alky forever, only real problem is that when it burns you may not see the flame in daylight.

Bet the 4cyl equinox has direct injection. Was posting about boost and DI several allowing near diesel performance years ago. Also DOHC with VVTi&e allows an incredibly wide torque band. Diesel is ded in passenger cars.