oldcar

1922 Fiat 501 Targa Florio

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Bernie,

Talking about the approach to problem solving in the early days of motoring reminds me of the story about , I think Napier, and their first 6 cylinder engine. For some time they struggled with rough running, could not find anything wrong. In the end, the story goes, they lowered the compression on No 5 cylinder, and it ran well. Problem solved.

My 26 rover has its dynamo chain driven, but the chain tension is adjusted by having 2 of the 3 mounting stud holes slotted (in the dynamo flange), so it pivots on the 3rd stud.

 

The  fact that the 501 is RHD is curious - was there a time in Europe when the driver's side was decided by the makers?  If so, when did that change?

 

jp

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The Rolls Royce of Fiats, the 519, was also only built in RHD form.  Perhaps they saw their largest markets as overseas plus the fact that Italy changed officially from left to right in 1924 could have a bearing.

Matthew

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For a variety of reasons some Italian manufacturers clung to RHD. Sadly only they could tell us why, so the precise reasons may never be known. Some Lancia models were only available RHD long after the country had changed to LHD. Some people believe that it was because on certain mountain roads this put the driver where he could see how close to the edge he was driving but that would only work when driving in the one direction. Who knows, unless you are a 108+ year old Italian who was driving and/or buying a new car at that time. (1924)

Some of the Italian Language Newspapers  and Motor Magazines from that  time must have contained some comments.

Bj

5917

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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One contributor to the Ferrari Chat forum has replied to a question regarding Ferraris; "which were all made post war" .

"ALL old Alfa's & Lancia's were RHD until as late as the early 1950's when they started making LHD. Italy used to drive on the left, so this follows. I suggest that Ferrari when starting out in 1947 built RHD cars, simply because that was their Countries "standard" a RHD and to match their competition in their home market."

Certainly the Vintage Fiats were built RHD, simply because at the time of their manufacture, all Italian cars were RHD. Driving on the left side of the road was the rule in Italy at the time (1920s). As it is a very long time since I last bought a new Ferrari, (i.e. Never). I cannot comment on them.

All the post WW2 Fiats I have owned were RHD simply because we did and still do drive on the left side of the road in Australia. Perhaps not so strangely, we still acknowledge Queen Elizabeth II as the Queen of Australia. Who said "We are a weird mob"?

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Now this is amazing even if I say so myself. The photograph below shows the Fiat  Engine nestling comfortably in the chassis.

This is today's work for just the one 80+ year old working on his own aided only by a chain hoist and a patented lifting chain.

In the third photograph you can see two versions of the patented lifting chain. one for engines fitted with 18mm spark plugs as with the Fiat the other for engines with 14 mm spark plugs as with the Lagonda Rapier. Does anyone know how these short lengths of chain work their magic? They are mainly applicable to side valve and twin overhead cam engines.

 

Bernie j.

DSCN6041.jpg.02cb5f32083fe1a12cba7120d73739b3.jpgDSCN6043.jpg.e6b0e0200a5efdb094e3c290bd28ad56.jpgDSCN6042.jpg.c3aceb0b0088f814fa3dda677573568e.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)
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The more observant among people who also look at PrewarCar will know that for a very brief period My Fiat appeared among the For Sale adverts. It has now been removed not because I have sold it but because I have recovered from this latest fit of madness and I am pressing on with the Fiat. Possibly even with renewed enthusiasm. 

 

Bernie j.

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That is a nice looking engine. No I did not notice you had it for sale.

 

Fiat 501 Tourer 1923 for sale

 

This one is for sale, 14,000 US Dollars. Not in my price range anyway. Car Fiat 501 1923 for sale.

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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Thank you Mike

I am now hard at work on the Fiat, this morning I have cleaned up the (multi plate) clutch and fitted it to the flywheel and I am in the process of sorting out the three pedals that mount on the side of the bell housing. These use shafts that are a sliding fit inside each other. Today's question to myself is "Where among all the boxes of stuff are the three shafts? Or did I even get them?'

This is just another example of the FUN that can be had restoring/re-assembling a collection of bits that someone else possibly no longer alive, pulled apart perhaps 40 or 50 years ago. Bright eyed people will have already seen that in fact I now have the three "shafts". The next question is, how the all go together and what else should I have. 

 

Bj.

DSCN6046.thumb.jpg.22d835d6431961205d8cc0f44aedd831.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Bernie, I'm glad you reconsidered and are continuing with the Fiat!

 

Should we assume, since the head is on the engine, that you successfully sourced the head gasket?

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Thank you Mike

I am now hard at work on the Fiat, this morning I have cleaned up the (multi plate) clutch and fitted it to the flywheel and I am in the process of sorting out the three pedals that mount on the side of the bell housing. These use shafts that are a sliding fit inside each other. Today's question to myself is "Where among all the boxes of stuff are the three shafts? Or did I even get them?'

This is just another example of the FUN that can be had restoring/re-assembling a collection of bits that someone else possibly no longer alive, pulled apart perhaps 40 or 50 years ago. As you can see; below, I have found the necessary bits I am still waiting for the paint on one end piece to dry

 

Bj.

DSCN6046.thumb.jpg.22d835d6431961205d8cc0f44aedd831.jpg

 

DSCN6047.thumb.jpg.6afdb0e626fa1ab8bc86a15cb2aee13f.jpgDSCN6048.thumb.jpg.e481b738f8229ffd387260f52b1cb85f.jpg

 

 

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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DSCN6049.thumb.jpg.e4f78b9babc2dcfa60f8bb47cd1e0767.jpgThere  are two of these strange "end pieces screwed into either end of the clutch/pedal cross shaft. There is one more "lever"that is mounted between this "device" and the body of the bell-housing. This has a little brass pulley located on the small shaft shown. Once the paint is fully dry I will be able to mount it in its place which may help to identify its purpose. What are we looking at?  You need to put yourself into the mind set of an Italian Automobile  Design Engineer in the early 1920s. What for and how  ??????

All will be revealed in the foreseeable future.

 

Bernie j.DSCN6047.thumb.jpg.911bd7265d2a5de016eac9b858047efb.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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To assist you here is a photograph of the opposite end of the cross shaft with its six fingered counter part in place, Note also the small brass pulley mounted off the side of the brake pedal. I still need to remove this in order to clean the paint off it and lubricate the shaft that it is mounted on..  Be careful of splinters in your fingers if you are scratching your head.

As a slight distraction, the short lever with the "ball end" at the rear of the gearbox just happens to be the gear-change lever........... more about it after the gearbox is fitted onto the rear of the crankcase/clutch bell housing.

 

Bernie j.

Don't go away, there is a whole wagon load of fun yet to come.DSCN6050.thumb.jpg.53df802f5c0cda77d69e692f68cd83d6.jpg

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Come on! What is needed here is some lateral thinking, a really clever Italian design engineer worked this one out almost 100 years ago.

So what is that fancy looking fitting for? There is one on either side of the gearbox.

No ideas, you will have to wait until the rebuild progresses a bit further.

Meanwhile I will just plod along doing a little bit every other day.

Some days I achieve quite a lot, some days like today it is a bit chilly and I only could put in an hour or two.

(It is also Friday when we (Helen & I) do our main weekly supermarket shopping.

Here in Australia it is our Winter Solstice so it is around our shortest hours of daylight.  I live in Melbourne, in the south, this time of year it starts to get dark around 5.30-6.00pm.)

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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M.png.c3a14ffacea5d0d38ffb4eb53ed17673.png  
mike6024 said:

Here is my guess. A cable that actuates the rear brakes wraps around that pulley. You'd need a pulley to equalize the tension on the left and right rear brakes. The high temp will be 90 Fahrenheit and it'll get dark about 9 pm here. 

Go to this post

 

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I am not sure what happened Mike, I received the above as an email but it had not shown up here so I have copied the email and pasted it above.

You are correct up to a point, they are for making adjustments to the foot brake. There is just the single cable for the foot brake. Starting at the left side rear wheel the cable runs forward and over the little brass pulley then down trrough the hole in the centre of the "adjuster" it then continues on through the hole through the shaft (through gearbox housing) and out through the "adjuster" on the other side, up and over the second pulley and back to the right back wheel. Pushing on the pedal pulls the cable forward over the pulley wheels. To "adjust"  the brakes the adjuster is screwed out thus increasing the tension on the cable. None of this is explained in any of the three Owners handbooks that I have. although one does suggest that the driver uses the engine to slow the car, changing down one or two gears depending on the steepness of the hill. None include a photograph or diagram showing the method to be used for brake adjustment. Sadly you will have to wait for a liitle while until have the rear axle and brake cables sorted out.

Even after so many years of use the binding on the (original) owners handbook makes reading difficult. People with a lively imagination can guess what the obscured words are. 

This illustration shows the route taken by the cable. It is from the Italian language Hand book.

1483378049_Brakes1.thumb.jpeg.8ebf896c955b42596777eff85047d041.jpeg

 

Brakes.thumb.jpeg.ad8bfb95d203581a774036ca4bb12cf5.jpeg

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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