oldcar

1922 Fiat 501 Targa Florio

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Bernie,

Talking about the approach to problem solving in the early days of motoring reminds me of the story about , I think Napier, and their first 6 cylinder engine. For some time they struggled with rough running, could not find anything wrong. In the end, the story goes, they lowered the compression on No 5 cylinder, and it ran well. Problem solved.

My 26 rover has its dynamo chain driven, but the chain tension is adjusted by having 2 of the 3 mounting stud holes slotted (in the dynamo flange), so it pivots on the 3rd stud.

 

The  fact that the 501 is RHD is curious - was there a time in Europe when the driver's side was decided by the makers?  If so, when did that change?

 

jp

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The Rolls Royce of Fiats, the 519, was also only built in RHD form.  Perhaps they saw their largest markets as overseas plus the fact that Italy changed officially from left to right in 1924 could have a bearing.

Matthew

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One contributor to the Ferrari Chat forum has replied to a question regarding Ferraris; "which were all made post war" .

"ALL old Alfa's & Lancia's were RHD until as late as the early 1950's when they started making LHD. Italy used to drive on the left, so this follows. I suggest that Ferrari when starting out in 1947 built RHD cars, simply because that was their Countries "standard" a RHD and to match their competition in their home market."

Certainly the Vintage Fiats were built RHD, simply because at the time of their manufacture, all Italian cars were RHD. Driving on the left side of the road was the rule in Italy at the time (1920s). As it is a very long time since I last bought a new Ferrari, (i.e. Never). I cannot comment on them.

All the post WW2 Fiats I have owned were RHD simply because we did and still do drive on the left side of the road in Australia. Perhaps not so strangely, we still acknowledge Queen Elizabeth II as the Queen of Australia. Who said "We are a weird mob"?

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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That is a nice looking engine. No I did not notice you had it for sale.

 

Fiat 501 Tourer 1923 for sale

 

This one is for sale, 14,000 US Dollars. Not in my price range anyway. Car Fiat 501 1923 for sale.

Edited by mike6024 (see edit history)

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Bernie, I'm glad you reconsidered and are continuing with the Fiat!

 

Should we assume, since the head is on the engine, that you successfully sourced the head gasket?

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M.png.c3a14ffacea5d0d38ffb4eb53ed17673.png  
mike6024 said:

Here is my guess. A cable that actuates the rear brakes wraps around that pulley. You'd need a pulley to equalize the tension on the left and right rear brakes. The high temp will be 90 Fahrenheit and it'll get dark about 9 pm here. 

Go to this post

 

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I am not sure what happened Mike, I received the above as an email but it had not shown up here so I have copied the email and pasted it above.

You are correct up to a point, they are for making adjustments to the foot brake. There is just the single cable for the foot brake. Starting at the left side rear wheel the cable runs forward and over the little brass pulley then down trrough the hole in the centre of the "adjuster" it then continues on through the hole through the shaft (through gearbox housing) and out through the "adjuster" on the other side, up and over the second pulley and back to the right back wheel. Pushing on the pedal pulls the cable forward over the pulley wheels. To "adjust"  the brakes the adjuster is screwed out thus increasing the tension on the cable. None of this is explained in any of the three Owners handbooks that I have. although one does suggest that the driver uses the engine to slow the car, changing down one or two gears depending on the steepness of the hill. None include a photograph or diagram showing the method to be used for brake adjustment. Sadly you will have to wait for a liitle while until have the rear axle and brake cables sorted out.

Even after so many years of use the binding on the (original) owners handbook makes reading difficult. People with a lively imagination can guess what the obscured words are. 

This illustration shows the route taken by the cable. It is from the Italian language Hand book.

1483378049_Brakes1.thumb.jpeg.8ebf896c955b42596777eff85047d041.jpeg

 

Brakes.thumb.jpeg.ad8bfb95d203581a774036ca4bb12cf5.jpeg

 

Bj.

Edited by oldcar (see edit history)

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Have you compared an  Imperial 5/16 inch Whitworth side by side with a M8-1.25, meaning 8 mm and 1.25 mm per thread ( pitch ) ? I've never seen a Whitworth, but 5/16 inch is about 8 mm so I am thinking they might be close. I just can't imagine why FIAT would mix metric with Imperial ?

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M7 is pretty uncommon today - only seen it once on a Japanese model aero engine shaft. Maybe they inherited a job lot of unfinished studs and couldnt get suitable nuts? 

jp 26 Rover 9

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Bernie,

Yes, I had forgotten about the use of the odd metric sizes in the early years. Re your pulleys, I was told many years ago that for efficient use of cables across pulleys, the pulley diameter should be approx 20 x the cable diameter, and looking at the width of the those pulley grooves , they are much smaller than that.....unless the cables are smaller than I think? Dont have that problem with the Rover, its all 5/16W rods in tension.

jp 26 Rover 9

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:42 AM, oldcar said:

Further to the above, I take it all back. The little men in the thread cutting section at Fiat must have been driven insane,

In among the metric nuts and bolts, just to make sure that you had your thinking hat on, they would throw in an occasional Whitworth thread. I think that the classic example has to be the studs screwed into the crankcase and sump around the bell housing to hold the gearbox on. These are nominally 1 7/8 inch long x 5/16 inch or 7mm depending on which end you look at. 
Yes that is correct one end has an Imperial 5/16inch Whitworth thread while the other has a 7mm Metric thread. The end that screws into the Crankcase and Sump is Whitworth while the end that receives the nut that holds the gearbox on is Metric. Some to these studs were either damaged by people trying to screw on the wrong nuts or were missing. While this may offend some of the purists, I decided to replace the lot, buying a length of 5/16 Whitworth Stainless "Allthread" and cutting it up into the required 1 7/8 inch lengths and using new Whitworth nuts and new washers. 

Bernie j.

 

1672907577_Bellhousingstud.jpeg.8ad1383c3a8bd5e8d1ebd43476784cca.jpeg

 

I would suggest that the use of a BSW  thread in aluminium is normal and perhaps the best for strength and the Fiat engineers not wanting to have an unusual thread on the nut side of the stud reverted to metric.  As for using "Booker rod" and a BSW thread on the nut side this only creates confusion and is unnecessary considering how easy studs are to make. 

Edited by Stude17 (see edit history)

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